Pope John Paul Sainthood Is Under Scrutiny After Disgraced Archbishop

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Why would they question his sainthood? He was approved by the Vatican as a candidate for sainthood and he was able to ask God to perform a miracle. And it says those are “rumors” it should come with an efficient proof.

God have mercy on us, especially on the media!
 
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I don’t think the Church has ever “un-sainted” someone, which is why the Church should not be canonizing people immediately after their death. Give it fifty years to get some perspective and objectivity (which was the old rule). If anything, that principle is even more important for Popes because their sainthood is literally being approved by their personal friends and former employees.
 
TMC said:
Give it fifty years to get some perspective and objectivity (which was the old rule). If anything, that principle is even more important for Popes because their sainthood is literally being approved by their personal friends and former employees.
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The claim is that it was premature only 9 years after his death but Mother Teresa’s sainthood was also very shortly after her death.
 
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gam197 said:
The claim is that it was premature only 14 ears after his death but Mother Teresa’s sainthood was also very shortly after her death.
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The process was begun immediately, and his sainthood was approved by men who were personal friends and colleagues. That is why (one of the reasons) the Church used to wait 50 years.

I also find it interesting that each of the last several Popes have all been made saints. That was not true for the first 2,000 years or so of Church history, so either our Popes suddenly got a lot holier, or the process is skewed.
 
Yeah declaring popes saints in a short time after their death is just asking for stuff like this. Wait at least 50 years.
 
TMC said:
either our Popes suddenly got a lot holier,
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I have heard it expressed that we had an extraordinary run of holy Popes.

Interestingly, no one ever seems to complain about St Pope Pius X being quickly canonized less than 40 years after his death.
 
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EugeneCharles said:
Why would they question his sainthood?
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Because they like peddling misinformation and fake controversy to those who don’t understand and hate the Church. It sells.

Also because most people in the media are not well educated about what they write about, whether it’s the Church canonization process or the Supreme Court’s opinions.
 
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RhodesianSon said:
Yeah declaring popes saints in a short time after their death is just asking for stuff like this. Wait at least 50 years.
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Are you saying he should not have been canonized? There is a whole process and miracles attributed to the process. Mother Theresa also was canonized after her death and there has been great controversy over her life as to whether she promoted a population explosion.

Reading on fastest canonization, Peter of Verona - 11 months.
Peter was canonized by Pope Innocent IV on March 9, 1253, the fastest canonization in papal history
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gam197 said:
Are you saying he should not have been canonized?
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He’s not saying that he shouldn’t have been Canonized but when it takes more time, we’re getting to know the Pope candidates better. Because we knew that they were holy as we can see them on cameras and etc. but not sure if they do the same without cameras and media.
gam197 said:
There is a whole process and miracles attributed to the process.
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Agree! The process needs miracles with scientific evidence so we can’t judge it and because it’s like God’s way to say that He approves it.
 
I’m not saying he shouldn’t be canonized. But I am saying there should be a waiting period so it’s not rushed.
 
EugeneCharles said:
He’s not saying that he shouldn’t have been Canonized but when it takes more time, we’re getting to know the Pope candidates better. Because we knew that they were holy as we can see them on cameras and etc. but not sure if they do the same without cameras and media.
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Pope John Paul was a pretty public pope and there was not much controversy over his life and actions. I have never seen anything strange in his private life.
EugeneCharles said:
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gam197:
There is a whole process and miracles attributed to the process.
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Agree! The process needs miracles with scientific evidence so we can’t judge it and because it’s like God’s way to say that He approves it.
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RhodesianSon said:
I’m not saying he shouldn’t be canonized. But I am saying there should be a waiting period so it’s not rushed.
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Isn’t that up to God. They start the process sometimes after a person’s death and wait usually for miracles and scientific evidence and some happen and others do not.

I guess they could wait a longer period (his was 9 years)and document the miracles in the mean time but if the miracles are there, so it would seem that is an indication.

Mother Teresa canonization took almost 20 years.
 
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RhodesianSon said:
Yeah declaring popes saints in a short time after their death is just asking for stuff like this. Wait at least 50 years.
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Yes. This is largely due to JPII’s changes to the canonization process. He further streamlined the process begun by Pope Paul VI in 1969. And he removed, or drastically reduced the roll of The Devil’s Advocate (Advocatus Diaboli). This is a big reason why sainthood candidates breeze through the process today. I have a lot of problems with it.
 
The following article comes from the archives of the Carmel of Lisieux. It details the objections to St Thérèse canonization by Monsignor Alexander Verde. The Devil’s Advocate. It gives compelling evidence to the great lengths the Church used to go through, to challenge the character of candidates for sainthood, even one such as Thérèse! Please click on the link inside the article to read the objections to the Cause of Thérèse in full. It is a fascinating read. And you can’t help coming away thinking that something has been lost with the modern process.

http://www.archives-carmel-lisieux.fr/english/carmel/index.php/l-avocat-du-diable
 
Mark121359 said:
The following article comes from the archives of the Carmel of Lisieux. It details the objections to St Thérèse canonization by Monsignor Alexander Verde. The Devil’s Advocate. It gives compelling evidence to the great lengths the Church used to go through, to challenge the character of candidates for sainthood, even one such as Thérèse! Please click on the link inside the article to read the objections to the Cause of Thérèse in full. It is a fascinating read. And you can’t help coming away thinking that something has been lost with the modern process.
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I understand your concern but Terese of Lisieux lived at a time when there were fewer people and a different format of communication. Maybe the process was much more in-depth

We are all called to be Saints and there are 6-7 billion people currently so to have a faster process to determine who are Saints and actually to have more Saints does not seem to be unthinkable.

Maybe they could have waited 15 -20 years after Pope John Paul II’s death but I still believe he would be a Saint…

Interesting article, , it certainly had to quite something. Here is a 24-year-old girl who’ during her short life seems to do very little and then telling her fellow sisters to collect relics.
 
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Let’s get some perspective on this “fast canonization” business.
The vast majority of saints who are quickly canonized are not controversial, as shown by the below list. Haven’t heard anyone complaining about St. Maria Purisima de la Cruz lately, or St. Francis de Paola, St. Dulce of the Poor, or St. Therese of Lisieux either.

Moreover, with the exception of St. Pope John Paul II, other recent Popes haven’t been canonized all that much faster than a number of other saints throughout history.

I have done some research and made a list, because the news media are too lazy to do any research and just say things like “One of the fastest canonizations of modern times” yada yada.

(List in next post due to character limits)
 
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FASTEST CANONIZATIONS EVER, BASED ON MY RESEARCH
(as of 18 Nov 2020)
  1. St. Peter of Verona, martyred by heretical Cathars, less than 1 year after his death (canonized 1253)
  2. St. Pope John Paul II, 9 years after his death (canonized 2014)
  3. St. Francis de Paola, friar and founder of Order of Minims, 12 years after his death (canonized 1519)
  4. St. Maria de la Purisima de la Cruz, Spanish superior of an order that helps the poor, 17 years after her death (canonized 2015)
  5. St. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, 19 years after her death (canonized 2015)
  6. St. Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei, 27 years after his death (canonized 2002)
  7. St. Dulce of the Poor, Brazilian Franciscan sister who worked with the poor, 27 years after her death (canonized 2019)
  8. St. Therese of Lisieux, 27+ years after her death (canonized 1925)
  9. St. María de las Maravillas of Jesus, Spanish Discalced Carmelite nun who founded houses for her order, 28 years after her death (canonized 2003)
  10. St. Mother Frances X. Cabrini, 28+ years after her death (canonized 1946)
  11. St. Padre Pio of Pietrelcina, 33 years after his death (canonized 2002)
  12. St. Casimir, Patron of Lithuania, 37 years after his death (canonization essentially complete in 1521; was redone later on because the Pope died and the Sack of Rome scattered the canonization documents)
  13. St. Gemma Galgani, 37 years after her death (canonized 1940)
  14. St. Oscar Romero, martyred while saying Mass, 38 years after his death (canonized 2018)
  15. St. Pope Pius X, 39 years after his death (canonized 1954)
  16. St. Teresa of Avila, 39 years after her death (canonized 1622)
  17. St. Maria Bertilla de Boscardin, Italian sister and hospital nurse, 39 years after her death (canonized 1961)
  18. St. Conrad of Parzham, Capuchin friar in Bavaria, 40 years after his death (canonized 1934)
  19. St. Pope Paul VI, 40 years after his death (canonized 2018)
  20. St. María Natividad Venegas de la Torre, founder of a nursing order and first female Mexican saint, 40 years after her death (canonized 2000)
  21. St. Maximilian Kolbe, 41 years after his death (canonized 1982)
  22. St. Leopold Mandic, Croatian Capuchin friar known for confessions, 41 years after his death (canonized 1983)
  23. St. Gianna Beretta Molla, 42 years after her death (canonized 2004)
  24. St. Gaetano Catanoso, Italian priest who spread devotion to the Holy Face, 42 years after his death (canonized 2005)
  25. St. Francis de Sales, 42+ years after his death (canonized 1665)
  26. St. Giovanni Calabria, Italian priest who worked with the poor, 44+ years after his death (canonized 1999)
  27. St. George Preca, priest and patron of Malta who invented the Luminous Mysteries, 44+ years after his death (canonized 2007)
  28. St. Katherine Drexel, American multi-millionairess who gave up her fortune to found a religious order to help poor children of color, 45 years after her death (canonized 2000)
  29. St. John Bosco, 46 years after his death (canonized 1934)
  30. St. Genoveva Torres Morales, Spanish sister who founded an order to care for women, 47 years after her death (canonized 2003)
  31. St. Pope John XXIII, 49+ years after his death (canonized 2014)
 
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