I would have to agree there. I just finished reading a book that included some of the things he did that most of us never knew. I much more respect for him from what I’ve learned. May he pray for us in heaven.Tomorrow (May 13th) is a very important day in modern Church history. Really, it is a very important day in history period. It is the anniversary of the Blessed Virgin Mary’s first appearance to the shepherd children at Fatima (1917). It is also the anniversary of the assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II (1981). It is my belief that if the Pope had not survived, the world would be a much different place today.
can you explain with specific examples who was/were better maby in the catagories: overall, in the last melinium, last half melinium, last 2 centuries, last century, last half century.I will agree that JPII was a very Holy man. As far as his performance as Pope, well there have been many, many greater Popes than JPII. I cannot agree that he should be titled “the Great”.
What book was that? I have been looking at several biographies of him and can’t decide which one to read.I would have to agree there. I just finished reading a book that included some of the things he did that most of us never knew. I much more respect for him from what I’ve learned. May he pray for us in heaven.
In my opinion, there are a couple of things that make him stand out:I will agree that JPII was a very Holy man. As far as his performance as Pope, well there have been many, many greater Popes than JPII. I cannot agree that he should be titled “the Great”.
How did the ship get so damaged if the captain was not asleep at the wheel?I think the question we must ask is how did the church get to be in such a mess if the Pope was not asleep at the wheel?
Just say’n.
I have to agree with you on this one. I’m getting tired of the posts that seem to imply he was so perfect. No human, not even the Pope is perfect. However, there have indeed been better Popes than JPII.I will agree that JPII was a very Holy man. As far as his performance as Pope, well there have been many, many greater Popes than JPII. I cannot agree that he should be titled “the Great”.
Those are mine, along with his longevity and his leadership through a most trying time liturgically in the Church. He was not a hard disciplinary as many would wish for, but I do think he helped put the brake on experimentation and pave the way for his predecesor to return the liturgy to where it needs to be. As with all things, God uses the right tool for the right job.In my opinion, there are a couple of things that make him stand out:
- His unprecendented world travels/evangelization. I’m certainly no expert on the papacy, but I know of no other pope that even comes close in this category (let me know if I’m wrong on this one).
- I do believe that he played a large role in the fall of the communist system in Eastern Europe (I know this can be debated). I also believe that the communist system in Eastern Europe was one of the greatest evils in modern times. Therefore, the title “the Great” is fitting in my book.
Anyone who thinks the Church is in a mess because of John Paul II has a poor grasp of Church history. Indeed, compared with the messes the Church has found itself in during past eras, the modern age might be considered a golden age for the Church. We do not have Popes being deposed or imprisoned or poisoned or strangled or starved to death by their own priests. We do not have Popes with lovers or sons who also become Popes. We have not had an antipope in quite some time. We have not had a Pope who was Pope on three different occassions or who gave up his office for money. We have not had a Pope in exile or retreating to a monastary because he was unable to live in Rome because the people hated him. We have not had disputed conclaves leading to war and murder. We have not had Popes leading armies into battle. Is the Church in a mess today? Not by a long shot! Get some perspective!VetA,
Sure; Pius X, Pius XI, Pius XII, Pius IX, Pope Leo XIII, Pius V for starters.
I think the question we must ask is how did the church get to be in such a mess if the Pope was not asleep at the wheel?
Just say’n.
No more than Pope Leo the Great implies that any of the other 12 Leos are ‘Lesser’. It is, at this time, not an official title, but an acclamation from a (I think) sizable majority of the faithful to indicate the greatness of his pontificate.I seem to have a problem with the wording. Does this imply Pope John Paul I was the Lesser?
I wouldn’t say perfect (as almost no one is) – but saintly!I have to agree with you on this one. I’m getting tired of the posts that seem to imply he was so perfect. No human, not even the Pope is perfect. However, there have indeed been better Popes than JPII.
No more than Pope Leo the Great implies that any of the other 12 Leos are ‘Lesser’. It is, at this time, not an official title, but an acclamation from a (I think) sizable majority of the faithful to indicate the greatness of his pontificate.
There are currently three Popes designated (more-or-less officially) as ‘Great’:
I realize that but never quite understood it. But even if the “Great” label were most worthy and applied now, would it not discourage a future Pope from using the same name, as he might be seen as trying to be “Greater”?Pope Saint Leo I
Pope Saint Gregory I
Pope Saint Nicholas I
15 Popes weren’t discouraged from using the name Gregory after Saint Gregory the Great, 12 Popes weren’t discouraged from using the name Leo after Saint Leo the Great and 4 Popes weren’t discouraged from using the name Nicholas after Saint Nicholas the Great.I realize that but never quite understood it. But even if the “Great” label were most worthy and applied now, would it not discourage a future Pope from using the same name, as he might be seen as trying to be “Greater”?
spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2005/apr/19/text-of-pope-benedicts-first-speech/*Dear brothers and sisters, after the great Pope John Paul II, the cardinals have elected me *
That makes more sense. Something must have gotten lost in the translation with the Great set after the Pope’s name.For me, I look to the first words of Pope Benedict XVI
spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2005/apr/19/text-of-pope-benedicts-first-speech/
No, it is a public acclamation, similar to “santo subito” or when Saint Joseph Labre died everyone in the town cried out “the Saint is dead” (he obviously wasn’t canonized at the time of his death). In fact, before the advent of canonical canonization more-or-less every Saint was proclaimed so by the public acclamation of the faithful.That makes more sense. Something must have gotten lost in the translation with the Great set after the Pope’s name.