C
catharina
Guest
What bishop?
- Status
D
dixieagle
Guest
As Benedict had nearly 20 years after Assisi in 1986 to think about it, during which he had much personal experience with JPII and the work of his papacy, I would have to say that he put the incident in context, and changed his perspective. At the time of his 2006 remarks, he was also Pope. I have to think that, as Supreme Pontiff, he receives special inspiration from the Holy Spirit. That’s plenty good enough for me.
So, I believe that his 2006 remarks carry more weight.
D
dixieagle
Guest
I think she means Lefebvre.
C
catharina
Guest
Thank you for answering the question I presented to J of Arc. Yes I mean Lefebvre, the former bishop and M. Fox the former theologian. Last I heard both were excommunicated.
I’m still waiting for an answer to earlier questions I’d presented to J of Arc, namely this post:
"JoA -
How can you possible say this about anyone else?
How can you imagine that your opinion is “the truth?”
**
“You think he’ll be canonized with an unrepented serious and public sin on record?”** (per J of Arc)
How can you justify saying such a thing???
???
D
dixieagle
Guest
I think that, to quote my dear, late mother, we have a case of “Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.”
There’s not a thing we can say that will make any difference to folks with this mindset.
God bless.
C
catharina
Guest
God bless you too and let me confess that I’ve heard a word here or there over the past 30 years about the minds and actions of some traditionalists. I never believed it.
Now I do. This website (where I’ve been a member for only weeks) has opened my eyes to their existence.
J
joanofarc3
Guest
Lefebvre.
J
joanofarc3
Guest
Being elected Pope doesn’t automatically make one right; he’s still a bishop. My dad was a fervent Catholic until his 40s and then completely left the Church. Obviously as a youth he was more correct.
J
joanofarc3
Guest
Boy, if that’s not the pot calling the kettle black.
J
joanofarc3
Guest
Inviting false worship at Assisi. Let me ask you this, how exactly do you justify not discouraging sin against God’s First Commandment? “Because he’s the Pope” doesn’t cut it. How can you imagine that going against His laws is “the truth?” I’ve never heard of an apology for the scandal. That’s how I said what I did. If you disagree, well, that’s between you and God. I prefer not to violate His laws, nor do I prefer to encourage others to do so. If this isn’t a matter of truth but simply my opinion, then follow in the example of John Paul II and stop rebuking me and others for simply not agreeing.
L
Like
Guest
**How dare you condemn a man of GOD, you know nothing of the facts of Assisi or any of the things you accuse him of!!!
How about you produce documentation for your statements of belief!
And this statement of yours…
I prefer not to violate His laws, nor do I prefer to encourage others to do so.
It sure appears to me (and others here) that you do prefer to violate His laws by these accusations of this man of God & encouraging to others to follow you!
**
J
joanofarc3
Guest
If you have some insight regarding the Assisi incident then please provide it. If you know how to show that he wasn’t condoning false worship, explain how please.
And try to maintain charity. I know it’s hard in a discussion like this (no, I’m not being sarcastic).
God Bless.
L
Like
Guest
Seems to me the prove lies with accuser or one making those claims against the late Holy Father.If you have some insight regarding the Assisi incident then please provide it. If you know how to show that he wasn’t condoning false worship, explain how please.
And try to maintain charity. I know it’s hard in a discussion like this (no, I’m not being sarcastic).
And may God bless you also!
C
catharina
Guest
As I said and will continue to say: It is YOUR opinion, not fact, that another has died with a public and unrepented sin on his soul. Glory be to God! How can you possibly imagine otherwise?
D
dixieagle
Guest
But he had not, I assume, *been elected Vicar of Christ’s Church on earth *in the interim, with the special graces accompanying that holy office…
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dixieagle
Guest
Refer back to my previous posts re: Benedict’s very recent take on things. Though I know you find it hard to accept, it is likely His Holiness has a better grasp on this issue than you or I. SImply put, if the current pope, who has had plenty of time to contemplate and consider the Assisi meeting of 20+ years ago, has modified his view, then I accept that as the definitive word on the situation.If you have some insight regarding the Assisi incident then please provide it. If you know how to show that he wasn’t condoning false worship, explain how please.
And try to maintain charity. I know it’s hard in a discussion like this (no, I’m not being sarcastic).
To be honest, and to speak quite plainly, I believe that if accepting the teachings, writings, and pronouncements (both ex cathedra and otherwise) of the Holy Father, Christ’s Vicar on earth, who has been elected by the Cardinals inspired by the Holy Spirit, is so very difficult for you, then I think that some consideration must be given as to whether you truly accept what being Catholic entails.
J
joanofarc3
Guest
- opinion: right back at you.
- sin: if you don’t believe inviting others to false worship is sinful, that’s your problem. If you choose to put the Pope’s every decision above God’s law then, maybe your above quote should’ve said “Glory be to the Holy Father!”
- imagine otherwise: I observe the facts and don’t live in a fantasy land where popes and priests are perfect. That would certainly be great, but that’s not the case.
C
catharina
Guest
Reflecting on your posts in this and the other thread, I can only suggest that your self-stated visceral hatred of the Pope and the Holy Bible that was a major issue for you when you “returned to the Church” is still a problem for you.
As I said: “Glory be to God.” I do hope you find peace. Bye.
J
joanofarc3
Guest
Being Catholic doesn’t imply putting the example of a pope over the law of God. I still refer to Benedict’s earlier statement. The way he’s expressed things since he’s become Pope has cooled down, in a manner of speaking. He has to be very careful about how he words things, especially when discussing the behavior John Paul II who was loved by so many. If he wants to discuss true ecumenism he can’t start off by condemning previous behavior. I agree that we have to take seriously the words of the Pope even though not ex cathedra pronouncements, but to keep in mind that he’s still not infallible in those. I know people who have left the Church, in good conscience, for some denomination because of certain words/actions of the Pope. There’s also the possiblity that John Paul and Benedict share the same weaknesses to a degree.
Sad, but not impossible, and likely as they were good friends.
J
joanofarc3
Guest
True, in most cases providing proof rests with the accuser. In this case, though, I believe the norm doesn’t apply. How can one approve of false worship? This is against the First Commandment, and it is the duty of the Pope to uphold that. This is why I, and others, disagree with the Assisi incident, as well as some others. Approval for false worship has been shown more than once. Like somebody pointed out earlier, look at what happened to King Solomon, the wisest man on earth. Perfect example of how the mighty fall. Is John Paul II in Hell? That’s not for me or anyone else to say. I prefer to think that his intentions were entirely pure and that he truly thought he was doing the right thing. I guess the only way any of us will know for sure is in Heaven. (BTW, my tone in this is not a matter-of-fact-in-your-face tone.Seems to me the prove lies with accuser or one making those claims against the late Holy Father.
And may God bless you also!
)- Status