Pope JP2 on Homosexuality

  • Thread starter Thread starter brb3
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If Church accepts homosexuality all heterosexuals will perhaps leave the Church. Homosexuality is an abomination as per the Bible. Church cannot accept both homosexuality and heterosexuality. Inconsistent and Incombatible. All structures against God will fall down one day or the other. However persons will high temptations to sin, should be dealt with mercy. That doesnot mean that we can have mercy to sinful behaviour.
Jose,

The Church accepts Homosexuals but never will it accept Homosexuality and anyone that believes and accepts…

Homosexuality is like the color of your eyes and Homosexuals are born that way
and
The Only Counseling for any Homosexual is to accept their Homosexuality

then these people need to examine their belief systems and adjust them as well…
 
“Homosexuality is not a ‘variant’ of human sexuality that can be put on an equal footing with heterosexuality. It is the expression of unresolved conflict tension in a tendency that is separate from sexual identity.” …World Youth Day, 2003
This was actually an address given by Rev. Tony Anatrella, Psychoanalyst, specialist in Social Psychiatry at a 2003 Conference in Rome (in preparation for the 2005 WYD in Cologne.

That is not a criticism, but we need to place it in context (who said it…and where was it said and to whom).

The whole section in that address is worth considering:
4 - 4 Psychological bisexuality

The post-adolescent also has to deal with psychological bisexuality which is the result of identification with the two sexes - not a case of being a man and a woman at the same time - so as to internalise their sexual identity and to move towards heterosexuality. Psychological bisexuality is the ability to relate with the opposite sex and to be consistent with one’s sexual identity in one’s emotional life and not only in one’s social life. As we said above, post-adolescence is a time when one’s psychological life begins to integrate with exterior reality. Modern society tends to confuse the only two sexual identities that exist, male and female, with sexual tendencies that are multiple, and sexual practices that are unconnected with drives. We should not confuse identity with sexual orientations, especially when they are in contradiction with sexual identity. In this context it is not easy to be at one with oneself and to be sexually consistent especially when homosexuality is valued and presented as an alternative to heterosexuality. The working out of psychological bisexuality could be compromising. As relations between men and women become complicated to the point of encouraging each one to remain single, the social model of homosexuality becomes commonplace.

Many adolescents and post-adolescents are too nervous and unsure of themselves to deal with psychological bisexuality. Young people sometimes encode their passing ambivalence, common during adolescence, in cliched terms of homosexuality. They think they are homosexual although they do not want or desire it, and they sometimes take the “passage to action” that shakes them psychologically. Of course, all individuals have gone through an experience of homosexual identification in order to confront their sexual identity, beginning with the parent of the same sex. When these identifications suffer failure, they risk being eroticised and led into homosexuality. We must remember that the choice of homosexual object, which is inherent in the mind, is not to be confused with the homosexuality to which a person can possibly be oriented.

Homosexuality is not a “variant” of human sexuality that can be put on an equal footing with heterosexuality. It is the expression of unresolved conflictive tension in a tendency that is separate from sexual identity.

Education in the meaning of other and the differences between man and woman is at the heart of the discovery of the real meaning of otherness.
Actually, the whole address is worth a read (see the link above).
 
The Church accepts Homosexuals but never will it accept Homosexuality…
So the Church accepts me but does not accept my sexual orientation, is that what you’re saying?
and anyone that believes and accepts…
Homosexuality is like the color of your eyes and Homosexuals are born that way
and
The Only Counseling for any Homosexual is to accept their Homosexuality
then these people need to examine their belief systems and adjust them as well…
So if a homosexual person believes they have always been homosexual (in other words, “born that way”) then the Church does not accept them? Is that what you’re saying?
 
  1. The increased chance of HIV is largely due to a much higher percentage having it already…
Gee, I wonder how that happened… This is like smokers are only more likely to have lung cancer than non-smokers because a higher percentage of them already have it.
 
40.png
Kolbe300:
Kolbe,
So the Church accepts me but does not accept my sexual orientation, is that what you’re saying?
The Church accepts all sinners…

Once a Prostitute not always a Prostitute
Once an Adulterer not always an Adulterer
Once a Homosexual/acting on SSA not always a Homosexual

I am using the word Homosexuality as the sin in action and I believe you are using it as an identifier. I have spoken of this before.

You are not your body, you are not your thoughts, you are not your behavior.
catholiceducation.org/art…ty/ho0039.html
It is, therefore, probably wise to avoid wherever possible using the words “homosexual” and “heterosexual” as nouns since such usage implies a fixed state and an equivalence between the natural state of man and woman as created by God and persons experiencing same sex attractions or behaviors.
vatican.va/roman_curia/co…ersons_en.html
The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.
So if a homosexual person believes they have always been homosexual (in other words, “born that way”) then the Church does not accept them? Is that what you’re saying?
Your question is in response to this…
and anyone that believes and accepts…
Homosexuality is like the color of your eyes and Homosexuals are born that way
and
The Only Counseling for any Homosexual is to accept their Homosexuality
then these people need to examine their belief systems and adjust them as well…
Essentialism=Born That way=The APA and the LGBT propaganda in my opinion that is without fact and has not been proved.

The only Counselinf for any Homosexual is to accept thier Homosexuality is the APA/LGBT agenda that is attempting to silence NARTH…

I would think you would welcome the opportunity to examine your beliefs…I am truly amazed at the 360 type of thinking…

Alcoholics are told they have a disease and when they are shown that this is bunk…they insist, I am diseased, I will always have a disease…and yet there is no proof for the disease model.

Homosexuals want the public to believe that their actions are normal. This is bunk and when any notion that these actions are not normal they point to the same AMA that says that they are normal and the same AMA that says that Addicts are diseased. Both notions require an adjustment in belief.
 
I am using the word Homosexuality as the sin in action and I believe you are using it as an identifier. I have spoken of this before.
Yes. And I will always be baffled by why you continue to do so knowing the confusion it causes.
Once a Homosexual/acting on SSA not always a Homosexual
Using the word to define behavior alone, sure. But imagine a homosexual person who isn’t sexually active reading that. Can you see how it would make absolutely NO sense?
The document recommends not using the word homosexual or heterosexual (which I don’t agree with, but you seem to). Which begs the question - why do you continue to use the words? If you agree with the document you referenced, stop using those words.
The only Counselinf for any Homosexual is to accept thier Homosexuality is the APA/LGBT agenda that is attempting to silence NARTH…
If you’re still speaking of homosexual=behavior, that statement makes no sense at all.
I would think you would welcome the opportunity to examine your beliefs…
I examine my beliefs all the time. I don’t spend a whole lot of time examining your beliefs because I don’t agree with most of them.
 
Yes. And I will always be baffled by why you continue to do so knowing the confusion it causes.

Using the word to define behavior alone, sure. But imagine a homosexual person who isn’t sexually active reading that. Can you see how it would make absolutely NO sense?

The document recommends not using the word homosexual or heterosexual (which I don’t agree with, but you seem to). Which begs the question - why do you continue to use the words? If you agree with the document you referenced, stop using those words.

If you’re still speaking of homosexual=behavior, that statement makes no sense at all.

.
Kolbe,
I examine my beliefs all the time. I don’t spend a whole lot of time examining your beliefs because I don’t agree with most of them
Is it your belief that your examination of my beliefs and use of words is consistent with your time wasted in examining my beliefs you do not agree with?
 
Is it your belief that your examination of my beliefs and use of words is consistent with your time wasted in examining my beliefs you do not agree with?
Yes, you could certainly call it wasted time. But I know we aren’t the only ones reading these threads, so sometimes it’s important not to allow some things to go unchallenged. So I wouldn’t call it a complete waste of time.
 
Yes, you could certainly call it wasted time. But I know we aren’t the only ones reading these threads, so sometimes it’s important not to allow some things to go unchallenged. So I wouldn’t call it a complete waste of time.
Kolbe,

What is it you are challenged about?

What is it you want lurkers to know?

What is it that you want to have clarified?

Concerning this…

I say this…
I am using the word Homosexuality as the sin in action and I believe you are using it as an identifier. I have spoken of this before.
you respond with this…
Yes. And I will always be baffled by why you continue to do so knowing the confusion it causes.
So, you are aware that I use words a certain way, and you are baffled. You have a choice…

Try to change the way I use words…I ask, do you believe that you have the ability to force someone to change their behavior?

Accept that I use words differently than you…would acceptance allow you to move on and think with less friction?

Recognize that communication is nothing more than the results of what it is you get from what you communicate.
 
What is it you are challenged about?

What is it you want lurkers to know?

What is it that you want to have clarified?
If you’re unsure of those things at this point, I’d say you haven’t read any of my posts.
So, you are aware that I use words a certain way, and you are baffled. You have a choice…
Try to change the way I use words…I ask, do you believe that you have the ability to force someone to change their behavior?
Oh, the irony! 😃
 
Kolbe,
If you’re unsure of those things at this point, I’d say you haven’t read any of my posts.
Your supposition that inability to understand a point of view is due to lack of reading excludes…

Lack of clarity in expressing thoughts
Lack of understanding
Lack of fact
Lack of intent
and more…
Oh, the irony!
No one can change you but you and the change starts when you accept you can change…truly Ironic would you not say so…🙂
 
Your supposition that inability to understand a point of view is due to lack of reading excludes…

Lack of clarity in expressing thoughts
Lack of understanding
Lack of fact
Lack of intent
and more…
You never know. Maybe your not understanding me is entirely due to my lack of clarity, understanding, fact, and intent. I kind of doubt it, though.
No one can change you but you and the change starts when you accept you can change…truly Ironic would you not say so…🙂
This may shock you, but I believe my sexuality could change if God so desires. The important thing, in my opinion, is that myself and others like me realize that change in sexual orientation isn’t necessary for living a holy life and knowing the love of God. Could my sexual orientation change? Sure it could. Do I think it’s likely? Probably not, as it’s a change seen in so few people. But I’m okay with that. If I wake up straight tomorrow, great! If I don’t, great! As long as I’m a child of God, I’m happy.
 
You never know. Maybe your not understanding me is entirely due to my lack of clarity, understanding, fact, and intent. I kind of doubt it, though.

This may shock you, but I believe my sexuality could change if God so desires. The important thing, in my opinion, is that myself and others like me realize that change in sexual orientation isn’t necessary for living a holy life and knowing the love of God. Could my sexual orientation change? Sure it could. Do I think it’s likely? Probably not, as it’s a change seen in so few people. But I’m okay with that. If I wake up straight tomorrow, great! If I don’t, great! As long as I’m a child of God, I’m happy.
Kolbe,

I am happy that you are a child of God and as long as you believe that change is not necessary then there will be no effort or need for you to change. I pointed out that change comes when change is accepted as something that can be accomplished…believing there is no necessity precludes the commencement of any process for change…

Absent motivation for change there can never be change…this is the key to change:)

In the context of this thread the Church welcomes all that wish to live in the bosom of the Church and if believing that there is no need to change, then as long as that change does not preclude following Christ to become Holy as God is Holy then so be it…

The Church should also welcome those that see change as desireable so as not to be conformed to the world but to be transformed by the renewal of their minds…they too are welcome.
 
Coptic, explain what you think concupiscence is, define it in your own words.
 
I am happy that you are a child of God and as long as you believe that change is not necessary then there will be no effort or need for you to change.
Do you believe changing my sexual orientation is necessary? If so, why?
…believing there is no necessity precludes the commencement of any process for change…
Is it necessary? If so, why?
In the context of this thread the Church welcomes all that wish to live in the bosom of the Church and if believing that there is no need to change, then as long as that change does not preclude following Christ to become Holy as God is Holy then so be it…
In other words, the Church does not teach that I must change my sexual orientation. Correct? Do you believe the Church is wrong about that?
 
Is it necessary? If so, why?
Kolbe,
Do you believe changing my sexual orientation is necessary? If so, why?
I believe that if you believe you want to change then you should change because only you can instigate that change and be motivated to change.
**believing there is no necessity precludes the commencement of any process for change… **
Is it necessary? If so, why?

Nothing is necessary until someone believes it is necessary because only the person that believes it is necessary will find it necessary and therefore belief precedes commencement.
In other words, the Church does not teach that I must change my sexual orientation. Correct? Do you believe the Church is wrong about that?
The Church welcomes all repent sinners of whatever stripe, color, shape, size, dimension that has repented and continues to live Life in Christ with the understanding of what that requires.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top