Pope kisses the KORAN?

[Chuck]

It seems the action of the Pope in kissing the Koran during his meeting last year with religous leaders was (in my understanding) inappropriate. The action reinforced a false belief that the faith does not promote hate and that we are somehow brothers with them. All-in-all, no one bought the message as far as I know.

Does anyone have another take on this? I love the Pope but this was not a good thing to me.

 

[Hananiah]

This is my take on it, from my website:

This action has provided a great deal of fodder for the enemies of the Church, and dismayed many a faithful Catholic. Though I have heard that in Middle Eastern culture kissing a gift is a fairly innocuous gesture of gratitude and respect, and thus the Holy Father’s intent in committing this deed was actually quite pure, nevertheless he should have known better. When Catholics see someone kissing a religious object, we think veneration. We kiss the cross; we kiss relics; we kiss icons; we kiss altars, and this to show our deep respect for an object which we deem to be holy. Well, the Qur’an blasphemes the Holy Trinity and claims that on the Day of Judgment Jesus Christ will return and condemn as idolaters all who worshipped Him as God. It is an unholy book. So it is quite understandable that many a Catholic would be horrified at seeing the prime minister of the Kingdom of God performing an act of religious veneration upon it! I remember reading an account on the Apostates for a False Christ website (they call themselves Former Catholics for Christ) about how they had set up a booth devoted to slandering Catholicism at some fair or another, and one of their main exhibits, the one that horrified their Catholic visitors the most, was none other than the infamous picture of John Paul II kissing the Qur’an. In sum, whether his intentions were good or not, it is undeniable that kissing the Qur’an was an incredibly stupid thing to do.
What is Traditionalism?

 

[Tom]

Chuck:

The action reinforced a false belief that the faith does not promote hate

This is a good thing, since our faith does not promote hate.

 

[walter]

I just heard Karls explanation of this on Catholic answers.
I guess my comment is - Maybe it was in bad taste in the first place to have the Koran offered to the Pope as a gift.
walter

 

[Craig_Guadagnol]

I believe it was neither in bad taste to offer the Quoran to the Pope, nor was it a mistake to kiss it. As an Italian-American, I can relate to the Middle-Eastern and Mediterranian cultures to whom the Pope was addressing. A Muslim holds the Quoran in extremely high esteem. He or she would die for it. I kiss is non other than a sign of respect. It is not an act of worship. I have trouble trying to explain this to my Protestant brethren who claim it is an act of worship, the end. If kissing something were an act of worship, I’d have been condemned on my wedding day for sealing my matrimony with a kiss…in front of God, no less. The Pope was doing nothing more than just showing respect for the faith that is so dear to the hearts of so many of the worlds population, and which ties them to the same God we believe in. As Catholics, we cannot even begin to reach out to Muslims with our own faith if we do not first reach out with respect to their faith. Praise God in thanks for our wonderful and wise Pope!!!

God Bless,

Craig Guadagnolo

 

[Emmy]

Craig Guadagnol:

I believe it was neither in bad taste to offer the Quoran to the Pope, nor was it a mistake to kiss it. As Catholics, we cannot even begin to reach out to Muslims with our own faith if we do not first reach out with respect to their faith. Praise God in thanks for our wonderful and wise Pope!!!

God Bless,

Craig Guadagnolo

Craig I completely agree with you here…

Emmy

 

[OhioBob]

Craig Guadagnol:

I believe it was neither in bad taste to offer the Quoran to the Pope, nor was it a mistake to kiss it. As an Italian-American, I can relate to the Middle-Eastern and Mediterranian cultures to whom the Pope was addressing. A Muslim holds the Quoran in extremely high esteem. He or she would die for it. I kiss is non other than a sign of respect. It is not an act of worship. I have trouble trying to explain this to my Protestant brethren who claim it is an act of worship, the end. If kissing something were an act of worship, I’d have been condemned on my wedding day for sealing my matrimony with a kiss…in front of God, no less. The Pope was doing nothing more than just showing respect for the faith that is so dear to the hearts of so many of the worlds population, and which ties them to the same God we believe in. As Catholics, we cannot even begin to reach out to Muslims with our own faith if we do not first reach out with respect to their faith. Praise God in thanks for our wonderful and wise Pope!!!

God Bless,

Craig Guadagnolo

I agree completely.

The Greeks spit on the bride for luck. Many foreign gestures seem strange to us “cultured” Americans. I think we show our presumptiveness (or ignorance) when we judge the actions of all cultures solely by our standards.

I have no idea why the Pope kissed the Koran (if he actually did, since I haven’t seen the photo) but I am sure that if he did, he didn’t do it as an act of worship or adoration.

As one of the most watched, evaluated and criticized people on the planet we should give the Pope at least a shred of credit and assume that he has reasons for his actions and that he doesn’t need to check with us before he does things.

Sometimes I think that as Americans, we assume that we know everything about everything. I certainly don’t.

 

[reoman]

What would the response be if the Pope were to kiss the flag of a country that allows the slaughter of innocents? Would he be endorsing the evil present in that country?

 

[Emmy]

Don´t forget that the Old Testament is in the Quran .

Emmy

 

[Faithful_2_Rome]

I believe the Popes heart was in the right place…but I 100% disagree with his holy lips touching that scourlous tripe that calls for the killing of the Jews and Christian infidels.

 

[Mandi]

I use to know someone, who use to proclaim adamantly that all you had to do was show pictures of the Pope kissing the Koran to prove that he is a heretic…:ehh:…???.. - apparently not!

 

[YinYangMom]

Faithful 2 Rome:

I believe the Popes heart was in the right place…but I 100% disagree with his holy lips touching that scourlous tripe that calls for the killing of the Jews and Christian infidels.

Why do people assume these fundamentalist terrorists represent anything near Islam? Good golly, can’t we recognize extremists yet? And know that a small, sick few do NOT represent the WHOLE?

Look at our sinful priests behind the scandal…not to beat a dead horse, but c’mon…I think we’d be the first to recognize that the actions of those priests do not represent the teaching of our Church or the beliefs and practices of the rest of us Catholics.

There are many passages in the Old Testament which would raise an eyebrow by today’s Western standards if taken out of context…but interlaced with the New Testament and viewing the Bible in its ENTIRETY as one WHOLE Truth keeps us from tossing out the offending sections.

I would think it’s the same for the Koran…it’s my understanding that, on the WHOLE, it’s not as abhorring as some people claim it to be.

Of course, I know not of what I speak with regard to the Koran since I’ve never read it…but I have an open mind and heart…enough to not condemn it outright and enough to listen to some ‘good’ Muslims speak of the good messages it teaches.

So I take it you’ve come to the conclusion the Koran is “scourlous tripe” after you read it, huh?

 

[Pro_Iesu]

YingyangMom the Koran teaches muslims to kill christians and jews if they do not accept Islam or the status of secondary citizen. The truth hurts. The difference between extremists is that they take the actions to the extreme but the beliefs are the same.

And about the old testament its not all in there and much of it is a skewed account. Much of the old testament is the history of Israel and Catholicism cuz we are the culmination of Judaism and thus theold testament would go against the muslim belief that they are Gods chosen people.

And yes the Pope is an awsome guy and he’s doing what God teaches convert them with love becuase how will they know a God who is love when his followers just show hate?

For those wondering about Islam Answering Islam

Peace and God Bless

 

[Mandi]

YinYangMom:

…but I have an open mind and heart…enough to not condemn it outright and enough to listen to some ‘good’ Muslims speak of the good messages it teaches

As a Catholic you ought to condemn it outright! It breaks the 1st Commandment! What has the world come to when Catholics start defending false gods :tsktsk:

Catholics get Catholic!!!

 

[Ken]

Why do people assume these fundamentalist terrorists represent anything near Islam? Good golly, can’t we recognize extremists yet? And know that a small, sick few do NOT represent the WHOLE?

Look at our sinful priests behind the scandal…not to beat a dead horse, but c’mon…I think we’d be the first to recognize that the actions of those priests do not represent the teaching of our Church or the beliefs and practices of the rest of us Catholics.

There are many passages in the Old Testament which would raise an eyebrow by today’s Western standards if taken out of context…but interlaced with the New Testament and viewing the Bible in its ENTIRETY as one WHOLE Truth keeps us from tossing out the offending sections.

I would think it’s the same for the Koran…it’s my understanding that, on the WHOLE, it’s not as abhorring as some people claim it to be.

Of course, I know not of what I speak with regard to the Koran since I’ve never read it…but I have an open mind and heart…enough to not condemn it outright and enough to listen to some ‘good’ Muslims speak of the good messages it teaches.

So I take it you’ve come to the conclusion the Koran is “scourlous tripe” after you read it, huh?

I agree. Ignorance of Islam is widespread in the West, and it’s widespread among Christians.

When one points out evil actions by Christians, the rest of the Christian community says they are individuals and do not reflect the whole. Then they turn around and attribute the actions of individual Muslims to all Muslims.

Most Christians don’t have the foggiest idea what the Quran says, and how it says it. But many of them pass around passages which they claim prove that Islam is a religion of hate. If one did that with the bible, they say one has to look at the whole bible and not just single verses.

I suggest many Christians simply have an animosity towards other denominations and religions and jump at an opportunity to exhibit their Christian credentials to each other by fostering hatred.

 

[YinYangMom]

Pro Iesu:

YingyangMom the Koran teaches muslims to kill christians and jews if they do not accept Islam or the status of secondary citizen. The truth hurts. The difference between extremists is that they take the actions to the extreme but the beliefs are the same.

And about the old testament its not all in there and much of it is a skewed account. Much of the old testament is the history of Israel and Catholicism cuz we are the culmination of Judaism and thus theold testament would go against the muslim belief that they are Gods chosen people.

And yes the Pope is an awsome guy and he’s doing what God teaches convert them with love becuase how will they know a God who is love when his followers just show hate?

For those wondering about Islam Answering Islam

Peace and God Bless

So where did the Catholic church get the directive to kill Muslims in the Crusades…and what about the directive it received to torture and punish the native american indians and mexicans for not converting when the Missionaries were establishing the missions in California?

Misguided interpretations which lead to gruesome acts in the name of God have happened in our own Church’s history…perhaps it is the same with Islam? I don’t know, but it could be possible, couldn’t it?

 

[YinYangMom]

Mandi:

As a Catholic you ought to condemn it outright! It breaks the 1st Commandment! What has the world come to when Catholics start defending false gods :tsktsk:

Catholics get Catholic!!!

As a Catholic you oughn’t tell me what I ‘ought or ought not’ do…especially while wagging a finger at me. It’s not the way Christ enlightened people and it really has the opposite effect on me.

I want to listen to what you have to say but when you use the wrong tone it’s difficult.

As for where’s the world coming to? I don’t know about the world, but for Catholicism, the Pope is ‘the man’. He is the leader of our Church, and as such has my utmost respect and appreciation. He did something he felt was appropriate, and I’m certain it was after serious reflection and prayer for guidance before his trip. I will be** the** last person to ever criticize or condemn him for having a bigger and more loving, tolerant heart than me.

When I have troubled feelings over something he writes or says in a speech (and it happens) that just tells me I need to pray for myself to open my heart to God’s call better. I must be missing something in the teachings if what the Pope calls for is uncomfortable for me.

 

[karisue]

K.Keating explained this on CAL yesterday. The Pope was conforming to middle eastern tradition of kissing a gift and holding it up to affirm that the gift has been accepted, and to convey gratitude for the gift to the giver.

The whole situation has been blown way out of proportion.

 

[Chris_C]

YinYangMom:

So where did the Catholic church get the directive to kill Muslims in the Crusades…and what about the directive it received to torture and punish the native american indians and mexicans for not converting when the Missionaries were establishing the missions in California?

Misguided interpretations which lead to gruesome acts in the name of God have happened in our own Church’s history…perhaps it is the same with Islam? I don’t know, but it could be possible, couldn’t it?

The case of the Crusades has been rendered too simply by your question. Jerusalem was a Christian Land invaded by Muslims. The Crusades were a legitimate military response to this political and spiritual reality. I recommend Jonathan Riley Smith’s WHAT WERE THE CRUSADES, which is very short and readable. Regarding the treatment of Indians in Latin America and what is now the High Southwest, I’m afraid you have set up a straw man. You will be hard pressed to produce a directive from the Holy See ordering the murder of Indians unwilling to convert. We need to be able to distinguish between the excesses of Catholics exercising their free will and Curch teaching’s and “directives”. On the question of treatment of natives in the Americas, I think we will find by the way that Catholics (French in Canada and Spaniards in Central and South America) treated the Indians with greater charity than did the Protestants who settled and led the growth of our own nation.
Where official directives are concerned, the Koran is explicit in relation to Christians, as others on this thread have stated. The difficulty with the Holy Father kissing this diabolical book is that the book denies the divinity of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, we should not worry too much about observing strange eastern or middle eastern rituals. We are Westerners, and the Holy Father’s actions speak to the West because he is a Westerner, too.
Why must Catholics be so mealymouthed about Islam when great Popes from Nicholas II to Pio Quinto have rallied military might against this tremendous anti-Christian force?

Chris C.

 

[YinYangMom]

karisue:

K.Keating explained this on CAL yesterday. The Pope was conforming to middle eastern tradition of kissing a gift and holding it up to affirm that the gift has been accepted, and to convey gratitude for the gift to the giver.

The whole situation has been blown way out of proportion.

Thank you, karisue.

I’m sorry I missed the session. I don’t even really know what all took place…just that there are threads on this board with people taking issue with the Pope, of all people - over something he did. It just seemed a bit arrogant and presumptuous to me for anyone to take that position over the the extension of a courtesy toward another person/entity/institution/whatever. I guess I’m more alarmed about that attitude in fellow Catholics that I am with the Pope kissing a Koran.