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YinYangMom
Guest
EENS
You don’t like this Pope very much, do you?
You don’t like this Pope very much, do you?
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EENS
Guest
Oh, I almost fogot…
Moslems do NOT worship the same God we do, unless you don’t believe in the Trinity. The Trinity is God, not three different “gods.” Wherefore, you cannot say mohammadists worship a person under the name “god,” and because of this it is the same God. Even if a person (such as a jew) believes and worships God the Father, that is NOT the same God. He only believes in part of God, just as protestants reject the Real Presence and reject PART of God. God bless.
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YinYangMom
Guest
There’s a separate thread for that whole conversation -
It’s been a doozie.
You might want to pop over there. I forgot the name of the thread. 
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ferdie
Guest
No it is not. But it defends on the pope’s intention when he kissed the Koran. Was it to revere the Koran or respect the person who presented the gift. I think it‘s the latter. But do you think burning that book will help us convert them? What do you suggest we as members of the true church do to save as many people as we can? Our duty to our brothers and sisters outside the true church is to win them for Jesus. What do you suggest we do? Burn the Koran? Burn all protestant books? Burn all eastern religion books? What an example coming from Catholics! Aren’t we supposed to be the example to the whole world? Do you have any suggestion to win these people?. Maybe you have some that we can employ. After all it is one of our duties as Catholics to save those outside the church.
No I can’t. We don’t have the spirit of ecumenism at that time.
I don’t know if what the pope did was a sin or not. It did cause a scandal for some. But for me, I was not scandalized for I truly believe that he’s purpose was to open the door of our faith. A truly noble intention. He is commissioned by Christ to baptize all nations. He is not there to condemn other people but to save.
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ferdie
Guest
Jews say that they worship the God of Abraham. Muslims say that they also worship the God of Abraham. Don’t we also worship the God of Abraham? It is only in our church that the true worship of that God can be found. Nevertheless, Jews, Muslims, and Christians are talking of the same God, just different representation of that same God.
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James_2_24
Guest
I don’t even try to answer this or explain it. There is no defense for the Pope’s actions in this regard, I don’t care what anyone says about respect, etc., etc.
It is a slap in the face especially to those in the Faith who are in Muslim controlled lands and are getting their families and friends tortured, raped, and murdered.
I dare say this action and some of the Pope’s masses make my stomach turn.
I do believe in his infallibility, I do have respect and love for our Pope, but I also recognize not everything he does is going to be correct.
God Bless JPII
It is a slap in the face especially to those in the Faith who are in Muslim controlled lands and are getting their families and friends tortured, raped, and murdered.
I dare say this action and some of the Pope’s masses make my stomach turn.
I do believe in his infallibility, I do have respect and love for our Pope, but I also recognize not everything he does is going to be correct.
God Bless JPII
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OpusDei
Guest
Amen, James!
I think the Pope would readily admit that, like any of us, he may get “caught up in the moment” and use poor judgement. Heaven forbid we have someone judging our every action. I believe the Pope has even admitted in his latest book that he wished he had been a little more of a disciplinarian. I think, in the interest of ecuminism, the Pope has sometimes accepted a little too much of what was in front of him. Often times, he will then publish a letter or comment, shortly thereafter, clarifying his position. Sometimes to the ‘shock’ of those he just met with.
May God bless this wonderful man, our Holy Father. We are truly blessed to have him guide us. But, he IS a human being, living in a fallen world.
I think the Pope would readily admit that, like any of us, he may get “caught up in the moment” and use poor judgement. Heaven forbid we have someone judging our every action. I believe the Pope has even admitted in his latest book that he wished he had been a little more of a disciplinarian. I think, in the interest of ecuminism, the Pope has sometimes accepted a little too much of what was in front of him. Often times, he will then publish a letter or comment, shortly thereafter, clarifying his position. Sometimes to the ‘shock’ of those he just met with.
May God bless this wonderful man, our Holy Father. We are truly blessed to have him guide us. But, he IS a human being, living in a fallen world.
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LastPew
Guest
The Pope kissing the Koran doesn’t bother me, but did you see him kiss the grass they brought to him when he landed?
I think the Holy Father is a hero, not perfect, but definitely closer to perfection than I am, and probably ever will be (short of being in Heaven God willing I am allowed in). Hindsight is 20/20, may be he could have handled the issue a little differently, but like Opus Dei said, he is a fallen human, and still has concupiscence, but I really don’t think this event a big deal anyway. Think about it, if a host asked how the meal was and you said “The best I ever had.” does that mean you place the meal over the Last Supper? Also, how many pictures have I seen with the Holy Father shaking hands and holding a book of some author? Does that mean he agrees with everything in it? Does that mean he believes that the Church agrees with everything in it?
Anyways. My little mind rambling.
I think the Holy Father is a hero, not perfect, but definitely closer to perfection than I am, and probably ever will be (short of being in Heaven God willing I am allowed in). Hindsight is 20/20, may be he could have handled the issue a little differently, but like Opus Dei said, he is a fallen human, and still has concupiscence, but I really don’t think this event a big deal anyway. Think about it, if a host asked how the meal was and you said “The best I ever had.” does that mean you place the meal over the Last Supper? Also, how many pictures have I seen with the Holy Father shaking hands and holding a book of some author? Does that mean he agrees with everything in it? Does that mean he believes that the Church agrees with everything in it?
Anyways. My little mind rambling.
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Fortiterinre
Guest
I agree with the consensus that we all wish the H.F. had not done this. However, remember that when the Allies bombed Rome during World War II, Pius XII caught a lot of crititcism for running into the streets and letting the crowds hug him. This very famous photo was considered “undignified” at the time. Popes are human and do impulsively human things sometimes.
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Shoshana
Guest
Don´t forget that the Old Testament is in the Quran .
I own a Quran, and like anything else, they have taken out what they wanted out of the OT and made up the rest. Not too much of the OT…
What has the world come to when Catholics start defending false gods
You might want to read Vatican2 on inter-faith relationships…
Most Christians don’t have the foggiest idea what the Quran says, and how it says it. But many of them pass around passages which they claim prove that Islam is a religion of hate. If one did that with the bible, they say one has to look at the whole bible and not just single verses.
I would highly recommend possessing one. I would also read up on Mohammed. Not a gentle man…
Conversely I find it funny that many RC Republicans who praise the Holy Father up one side and down the other are strangely silent when he criticizes the excesses of the market or the war zeal of the United States Government.
Such words of wisdom…
Originally Posted by Mandi Sorry can’t show you that, but I can show you several examples of Saints and Martyrs being tortured and killed for teaching Christianity. St. John deBeuf had his heart riped out of his chest and eaten by the Iroquios. His shrine is in Midland, Ontario he is one of the 8 Great Canadian Martyrs. Their writings strongly differ from anything you’ll find in any current History Book - Me I’ll take the Saints version of what happened!
“All you holy Martyrs, pray fof us”
Ditto…they were very holy men!
Maybe if the Pope would approach the Muslims with Our Lady, the Mother of God, (as Bishop Sheen so wisely stated so many years ago), we probably would have more success. Especially Our Lady of Fatima. I can’t remember if Fatima was a wife of Muhammed or a daughter…what a coincidence!?!
Blessings,
Soshana
I own a Quran, and like anything else, they have taken out what they wanted out of the OT and made up the rest. Not too much of the OT…
What has the world come to when Catholics start defending false gods
You might want to read Vatican2 on inter-faith relationships…
Most Christians don’t have the foggiest idea what the Quran says, and how it says it. But many of them pass around passages which they claim prove that Islam is a religion of hate. If one did that with the bible, they say one has to look at the whole bible and not just single verses.
I would highly recommend possessing one. I would also read up on Mohammed. Not a gentle man…
Conversely I find it funny that many RC Republicans who praise the Holy Father up one side and down the other are strangely silent when he criticizes the excesses of the market or the war zeal of the United States Government.
Such words of wisdom…
Originally Posted by Mandi Sorry can’t show you that, but I can show you several examples of Saints and Martyrs being tortured and killed for teaching Christianity. St. John deBeuf had his heart riped out of his chest and eaten by the Iroquios. His shrine is in Midland, Ontario he is one of the 8 Great Canadian Martyrs. Their writings strongly differ from anything you’ll find in any current History Book - Me I’ll take the Saints version of what happened!
“All you holy Martyrs, pray fof us”
Ditto…they were very holy men!
Maybe if the Pope would approach the Muslims with Our Lady, the Mother of God, (as Bishop Sheen so wisely stated so many years ago), we probably would have more success. Especially Our Lady of Fatima. I can’t remember if Fatima was a wife of Muhammed or a daughter…what a coincidence!?!
Blessings,
Soshana
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davidv
Guest
James_2:24:
Did you ever consider that his intent was to offend you? The lack of respect for authority in this country is appalling. We will stoop to any lame excuse to justify not obeying the one in authority.
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corkybob
Guest
Jimmy Akins had a differant slant on it. The picture wasn’t of the Pope with an Inman, but with the Patriarch of the Chadean (Iraq) Church. Can anyone make out the Aribic scroll? Indeed he may have been kissing the Holy Bible.It seems the action of the Pope in kissing the Koran during his meeting last year with religous leaders was (in my understanding) inappropriate. The action reinforced a false belief that the faith does not promote hate and that we are somehow brothers with them. All-in-all, no one bought the message as far as I know.
Does anyone have another take on this? I love the Pope but this was not a good thing to me.
Pax
John
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Mike_Rainville
Guest
If you need to look these or related references up, there are at least three spellings Koran, Quran and Qu’ran, The bold is mine.
Shouldn’t we give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt here?
He has said before that there is some part of the truth and there are extremists who use religion to justify all manner of horrors in every group.
[ADDRESS OF JOHN PAUL II
INTERRELIGIOUS MEETING AT THE NOTRE DAME PONTIFICAL INSTITUTE
Jerusalem
Thursday, 23 March 2000
](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...-ii_spe_20000323_jerusalem-notre-dame_en.html)
OMAYYAD GREAT MOSQUE, DAMASCUS
ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER
Sunday, 6 May 2001
](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...uments/hf_jp-ii_spe_20010506_omayyadi_en.html)
Shouldn’t we give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt here?
He has said before that there is some part of the truth and there are extremists who use religion to justify all manner of horrors in every group.
[ADDRESS OF JOHN PAUL II
INTERRELIGIOUS MEETING AT THE NOTRE DAME PONTIFICAL INSTITUTE
Jerusalem
Thursday, 23 March 2000
](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...-ii_spe_20000323_jerusalem-notre-dame_en.html)
[MEETING WITH THE MUSLIM LEADERS
OMAYYAD GREAT MOSQUE, DAMASCUS
ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER
Sunday, 6 May 2001
](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...uments/hf_jp-ii_spe_20010506_omayyadi_en.html)
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deogratias
Guest
It is my understanding that a copy of the Koran was presented to the Pope as a gift and that it is the custom of that country that one kiss the gift one is given -
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Peg
Guest
It amazes me how judgemental we can be. Since we do not have all the details and we do not know if the Holy Spirit was moving Pope John Paul II to kiss the book, it behoves me not to form an opinion. My time would be better spent praying for this anointed man and for the conversion of Muslims and Jews.
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Ian_McClave
Guest
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Anathama_Sit
Guest
Depends on where I am driving and on what kind of mood I am in.
Spaghetti with meat in the suace or spaghetti with no meat in the sauce?
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