Pope laments 'black-and-white' mentality in priest-confessors [CC]

[Minion_w_a_drum]

The confessIonal isn’t for therapy - it’s for the forgiveness of sins. The penitent shows up, confesses his sinful behavior, declares his contrition, and is forgiven by the priest in persona Christi.

I’m confused as to why psychology is necessary.

Can I get an AMEN?!?!?! Finally some common sense!

For a priest to practice psychology he would have to know the penitent fairly well. When I’m in “the box” many times I whisper. I’m absolutely certain the priest,even assuming I go to the same one, has no idea whatsoever who is on the other side of the curtain. In this case, there is no need nor benefit for a psychologist with a collar.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

That’s it?
What you describe above, and it’s done?

What if a person is displaying the same unhealthy behavior, over and over, for months or years…the priest wouldn’t say anything else to try and be helpful?
Wouldn’t ask any questions?

I wonder if the pope was talking more about when a parishioner is talking to their priest and asking advice outside the confessional.

DG

In my case, I ONLY go to confession behind the curtain. How would a priest know for certain that the person on the other side of curtain is the same person who confessed the same sin a month ago??? That is a rhetorical question. The reality is the priest wouldn’t have a clue…

For absolution, to clean off my slate, I go to confession. For therapy, I visit my bartender. I suggest more do the same.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Substitute holy and unholy for black and white and it gets real confusing real fast.

Personally I’ve had the opposite where the priest refused to see good and bad and tried to suggest sin.

But then I guess he didn’t want to appear harsh or unwelcoming.

Honestly I wish I knew where all these priests who are harsh in the confessional are. I’d move there.:…

 

[edwest2]

You either sin or don’t sin. You feel an appropriate sense of guilt or shame as the case may be. The priest has been given the ability to forgive sins. I suggest that those who feel like other factors are affecting their sinful behavior talk to a priest outside the Confessional.

Ed

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Can I get an AMEN?!?!?! Finally some common sense!

For a priest to practice psychology he would have to know the penitent fairly well. When I’m in “the box” many times I whisper. I’m absolutely certain the priest,even assuming I go to the same one, has no idea whatsoever who is on the other side of the curtain. In this case, there is no need nor benefit for a psychologist with a collar.

I am at a loss as to how you could even make that evaluation. Are you a priest? Who is also a psychologist?

I am a priest. I have been a confessor for decades. I have also been a professor and formator preparing others for a life of ministry, having that role in part because of my background before I was ordained. I would have been much poorer in all those capacities without my studies in psychology that I completed before I entered the seminary; I cannot do justice to how well they served me – and my diocese.

Your suppositions are very very mistaken.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

You either sin or don’t sin. You feel an appropriate sense of guilt or shame as the case may be. The priest has been given the ability to forgive sins. I suggest that those who feel like other factors are affecting their sinful behavior talk to a priest outside the Confessional.

Ed

Issues can be dealt with in either the internal forum or the external forum.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Once again, and I say it with weary respect, we do not know exactly what the Pope is getting at.

No I presume a lot of people would not.

The Holy Father was addressing a group of priests…who are Jesuits trained in the thought and school of spirituality of Saint Ignatius. Those who are priests, and especially those who have been priests for many years, can readily understand what he is saying. From their lived experience. As confessors. As diocesan officials. As those who have particular responsibilities relative to matters of the internal forum.

I am reminded of years ago, when I was active in my academic appointment. I was invited to a prestigious lecture in a field related to astrophysics by a colleague in the academy. It was quite splendid but, as it was beyond the scope of my own studies – aside from a few courses in astronomy I had done as a student as part of my degree plan before I entered seminary – I could not begin to appreciate the real wealth that I was participating in…unlike the other academics, immersed in their own field, who had multiple degrees in it and in related sciences, had lectured for many years, guided dissertations, conducted research, published, and been active professionally as well as academically. They were quite fully engaged in the lecture and post-lecture colloquium in a way I would have been in my own field and specialisations; I am sure there was no concept in the presentation with which they did not have profound awareness and background.

Conversely, since this is not astrophysics but my own academic field and my specialty and indeed my life’s work, when I hear Pope Francis speak in these areas, what he says is anything but enigmatic. If anything I find it overly simplified, frankly. While I am not Ignatian, I am conversant with it. I appreciate its value. It is the key to understanding His Holiness. His formation as a Jesuit underlies his entire being. That is readily apparent.

For many of his speeches on conduct regarding matters related to the internal forum, I have obtained the printed text because they are so outstanding. I could not agree with what he says more than I already do. He is exactly correct. As regards both theory and practice.

His Holiness was quite extraordinary for his exercise of pastoral ministry in and throughout his various elevations. That reality is transparently clear in many references that he makes. And it is that reality that makes him an incredible gift to the Church since his election as Vicar of Christ.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Catholic moral teaching has been delivered to the masses in shades of gray to the point of ambiguity and error for the last 50 years or so. And with specific regard to confession, where has the pope been hanging out to know this is a problem within the confessional?.. especially with the seal of confession in place. I often wonder what the heck must be going on in Argentina.

If you were a priest and if you were a diocesan official, you would have learned and you would know exactly the various mechanisms by which a bishop – but above all a Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church – would have acquired the basis to articulate what now, as the Vicar of Christ, His Holiness has said.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

I am at a loss as to how you could even make that evaluation. Are you a priest? Who is also a psychologist?

I am a priest. I have been a confessor for decades. I have also been a professor and formator preparing others for a life of ministry, having that role in part because of my background before I was ordained. I would have been much poorer in all those capacities without my studies in psychology that I completed before I entered the seminary; I cannot do justice to how well they served me – and my diocese.

Your suppositions are very very mistaken.

I am not a priest. I am not a psychologist.
You are a priest and a psychologist and you say (and I understand) that it has been very beneficial to you and your diocese. Good for you and your diocese. That is a wonderful thing.
My point is, I do not believe a psychologist is necessary on your side of the box. For a priest to use his psychology training during a confession, wouldn’t the priest have to know who, and at least a little bit about the person who is confessing? Can you really use your psychology training on someone who whispers or changes voice deflection? After all, voice is the only identifier to a penitent behind the curtain, am I correct?

Add to it that (at least to my understanding) confession is for the forgiveness of sins, not for therapy.

My typical confession goes the same today as it did when I first started going many years ago:
Forgive me father for I have sinned, my last confession was this long ago.
I did this, this many times.
I did this, this many times,.
I did this, this many times.
These are my sins for which I am truly sorry. Please forgive me.

More times than not I get a few words (less than 30 seconds), say an act of contrition and then get absolution. I’m in and out of there in 2 minutes. I go in prepared, get straight to the point, do not deviate by adding any qualifiers or commentary, and the priest follows my lead.

It is a beautiful and heart warming experience.