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Ituyu
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Jeffrey
Guest
I agree it is a much better example.
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Ituyu
Guest
Isn’t the best example the one that is relavant and germane to the group in our current situation?
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BlyssfulDreamer
Guest
A comment like this absolutely makes no sense.
They should not come here at all if they are going to do so through illegal means…and that doesn’t matter if they are Catholic or Baptist (LOL):heart:Blyss
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tasso
Guest
I can see how much the immigrants from Europe in the past respected the culture of the Natives in America. How many actually bothered to learn any of the original american languages? And do the descendants of European Immigrants in America even remember, that the language originally wasn’t English at all. English is a European language, not an American. These immigrants didn’t respect the culture they invaded and now their children want to inforce it on others? Maybe immigrants do respect the culture of the native population more than the culture of the Europeans. So, who is to say which culture there is to be respected? The European which spread in America, or the Natives who are today sidelined, decimated and forced to live in Reservations (if they want to keep their own culture)?
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Hey_Jude
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BlyssfulDreamer
Guest
Tell me…does Britain have “clean hands” when it comes to their colonization? I don’t think so. Besides…what happened hundreds of years ago has no bearing on what is happening in the 21st century as much as you would like to deflect and say it does. Like the saying goes…“When in Rome…do as the Romans do”…and that could go for this country. When in the USA…do as the citizens do…oh right Tasso…we cannot call ourselves Americans can we?
:heart:Blyss
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marciadietrich
Guest
Yes, I saw a study in the reference section of the public library that has shown that 2nd generation of Spanish speaking immigrants are as or more likely to know English -and more likely to be bilingual - than various Asian language immigrants.
That there have always been these pockets of first generation people who learn little to no English, and communities that build up around the foreign language. It is modern patterns of immigration outside of just the major cities and modern communication, etc (technology, news reporting, laws requiring Spanish in certain cases for first gen school kids ) that make it more apparent.
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rlg94086
Guest
I’m not sure why they would see a variation between any of the immigrant groups. Having grown up in an area with a lot of Spanish-speaking and Asian immigrants, I would say close to 100% of 2nd generation Americans know English. I also doubt the “more likely to be bilingual” results. All of the 2nd generation kids I grew up around spoke their parent’s home tongue, because they used it at home…however, their written skills were not as good as their verbal skills, for obvious reasons.
Regarding bilingual education, I remember seeing polls in the past where Spanish-speaking immigrants showed a preference against bilingual education. They want their kids to learn English!
Regarding bilingual education, I remember seeing polls in the past where Spanish-speaking immigrants showed a preference against bilingual education. They want their kids to learn English!
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marciadietrich
Guest
Hi
I was mostly just agreeing with the prior poster who was arguing against the “they dont” or “why don’t they just learn English like my ancestors did” line of argument. We don’t have anything very different going on here in the case of 2nd generation citizens than in the past or different than other modern-day foreign language immigrants.
Both cases were close to but not 100% … I believe it was somewhere around 96-97% of 2nd generation asians spoke English and 97-98% 2nd gen latinos. So very close in both cases and close to 100% in both cases. With statistical variances really not significant. This is me trying to remember off the top of my head, so I could be off by a few percentage points as well. Don’t quote me as fact.
Likely true as well that most are bilingual, by necessity (the variance would be more based in how many of first gen immigrants learned English and pushed it for their kids exclusively), but when broke down in percentages in this report it was something fairly significant in the area of 10-15% or so more 2nd gen hispanics being bilingual than 2nd gen asians. My practical experience is 100% 2nd gen speak English, but apparently there are exceptions who live in the foreign language communities exclusively, perhaps homeschooled or other factors? Don’t know why, just recall reading that statistic.
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rlg94086
Guest
It may be skewed a little since Asians includes Filipinos and Indians in the Asian group. In my wife’s case, her Mom insisted on speaking English at home. So, she understands Tagalog and Visayan fairly well, but is not confident speaking either dialect. I could see something similar happening in an Indian home.
These two nationalities are a little different because English is spoken quite widely in both countries. I know in the Philippines, English is the language used in school…not sure about India. Immigrant parents from those countries would be in a much better position to insist on English at home.
One of my co-workers is 2nd generation Chinese American and is more typical of Asian immigrants. His Chinese is excellent…spoken. Can’t read or write a thing.
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LovedForever
Guest
From the Catechism:
#2241 - “Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, **TO OBEY ITS LAWS **and assist in carrying civic burdens.”
This cannot be any more clear. In fact, this passage starts out by saying, “The more prosperous nations are obliged, ***to the ***extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and means of livlihood which he cannot find in his country of origin.”
No country can turn a blind eye and allow a steady flow of foreigners to stream into their country - any more than you or I on a smaller scale would leave our front door unlocked and allow UNINVITED strangers to wander in and help themselves to our home!
There is a SERIOUS problem in this country today due to the millions and millions of illegals that have snuck in here from Mexico. Most do NOT pay taxes and contribute to the social structure set up in this country that pays for our schools, roads, hospitals etc. And yet they reap those benefits that we have worked hard to build and establish. It is THEFT. Pure and simple. Some hospitals in California for example have gone bankrupt due to this ever increasing problem. Not to mention the school systems that are under terribly heavy burdens financially and otherwise due to the growing population of illegals pouring into their systems - many who do not speak ANY English. And then they expect us to provide and pay for teachers and special programs to teach them!
And stop and think about some of the ensuing problems aside from the legal and financial burdens.
A family sneaks into this country illegally.
They have already CHOSEN to break the law. A sin mind you.
They have given a very bad example to their children.
These children must now “live the lie.”
They must live with an ever-present FEAR of being discovered.
They must LIE for their parents and now themselves.
At school and elsewhere.
IT IS WRONG! It is wrong to make a decision that is illegal and immoral and then subject your children to it which forces them to live a deceptive and deceitful life!
Mexican citizens do NOT live in a persecuted country such as North Korea or China.
They live in a country that is full of corruption and have a duty to try and make that better.
But - they bring the corruption here in the name of having a better life.
The end does NOT justify the means.
Too many focus on a country’s (America) obligation to “accept the immigrant” and totally IGNORE the flip side - the immirgrant’s RESPONSIBILITIES! First and foremost to enter this country LEGALLY!
It’s a given when it speaks of “accepting or welcoming” the foreigner. That they came here legally and are therefore “welcome” here.
We have by the way, NOT shut off immigration.
Legal immigration that is.
And - thanks to the millions of lawbreaking illegals that have snuck in here and are putting such a massive drain on our resources - naturally we are going to be FORCED to slow down the rate of foreigners we are ABLE to accept (as the Catechism puts it).
#2241 - “Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, **TO OBEY ITS LAWS **and assist in carrying civic burdens.”
This cannot be any more clear. In fact, this passage starts out by saying, “The more prosperous nations are obliged, ***to the ***extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and means of livlihood which he cannot find in his country of origin.”
No country can turn a blind eye and allow a steady flow of foreigners to stream into their country - any more than you or I on a smaller scale would leave our front door unlocked and allow UNINVITED strangers to wander in and help themselves to our home!
There is a SERIOUS problem in this country today due to the millions and millions of illegals that have snuck in here from Mexico. Most do NOT pay taxes and contribute to the social structure set up in this country that pays for our schools, roads, hospitals etc. And yet they reap those benefits that we have worked hard to build and establish. It is THEFT. Pure and simple. Some hospitals in California for example have gone bankrupt due to this ever increasing problem. Not to mention the school systems that are under terribly heavy burdens financially and otherwise due to the growing population of illegals pouring into their systems - many who do not speak ANY English. And then they expect us to provide and pay for teachers and special programs to teach them!
And stop and think about some of the ensuing problems aside from the legal and financial burdens.
A family sneaks into this country illegally.
They have already CHOSEN to break the law. A sin mind you.
They have given a very bad example to their children.
These children must now “live the lie.”
They must live with an ever-present FEAR of being discovered.
They must LIE for their parents and now themselves.
At school and elsewhere.
IT IS WRONG! It is wrong to make a decision that is illegal and immoral and then subject your children to it which forces them to live a deceptive and deceitful life!
Mexican citizens do NOT live in a persecuted country such as North Korea or China.
They live in a country that is full of corruption and have a duty to try and make that better.
But - they bring the corruption here in the name of having a better life.
The end does NOT justify the means.
Too many focus on a country’s (America) obligation to “accept the immigrant” and totally IGNORE the flip side - the immirgrant’s RESPONSIBILITIES! First and foremost to enter this country LEGALLY!
It’s a given when it speaks of “accepting or welcoming” the foreigner. That they came here legally and are therefore “welcome” here.
We have by the way, NOT shut off immigration.
Legal immigration that is.
And - thanks to the millions of lawbreaking illegals that have snuck in here and are putting such a massive drain on our resources - naturally we are going to be FORCED to slow down the rate of foreigners we are ABLE to accept (as the Catechism puts it).
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BlyssfulDreamer
Guest
LovedForever…post #73…excellent post:thumbsup:
:heart:Blyss
:heart:Blyss
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LovedForever
Guest
Thank You.
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Dee_Dee_King
Guest
the reason they find work here is greedy employeers will gladly pay illegals a fraction of what he would have to pay natives. once illegals dominate a sector of work, natives will be less likely to pursue those sectors.
the problem is one that’s inherent in capitalism. capitalism is driven by efficency and profit to the exclusion of the human element. outsourcing and globalization increase profits to raise stock values at the cost of domestic jobs and stability for the family. fierce competition and special intrest in our government add full to the fire.
in a country that murders millions of babies each year, do you think it will be any more ethical when it comes to buisness??
the problem is one that’s inherent in capitalism. capitalism is driven by efficency and profit to the exclusion of the human element. outsourcing and globalization increase profits to raise stock values at the cost of domestic jobs and stability for the family. fierce competition and special intrest in our government add full to the fire.
in a country that murders millions of babies each year, do you think it will be any more ethical when it comes to buisness??
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lux_mundi
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Viki59
Guest
This is the crux of the problem. The Mexican government gets away with murder, and everyone else pays. Mexico needs a welfare system, pensions, unemployment insurance, a decent educational system for everyone: the whole safety net that Americans take for granted.
Then their citizens can stay home, where they’d probably much rather be, and work there.
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marci
Guest
I don’t know why the US press doesn’t report on this, but I live on the border (1/2 a mile away) and the Mexican media does report on it. Calderon is trying to change things over there. Right now, he is traveling around the country with 20,000 army troops and 1500 personal body guards. They are going state by state and completely destroying the drug cartels. Whoever doesn’t get killed in the crossfire is arrested, including dirty police and crooked federal forces. Not to mention they are burning the marijuana fields as they go.
He is also raising the minimum wage to 3 xs what it was. He wants his people to want to stay in their own country. We should all pray for him, because there are thousands of bullits in Mexico and South America with his name on them.
I wanted to respond also to another post about the drain on US resources. Whether or not this is PC, it is the truth. Illegals take jobs Americans won’t take because they work for substandard wages, the majority pay no taxes, their families recieve free health care, housing, CHIP, WIC, and a wealth of other government programs out there which look the other way when it comes to proof of citizenship. They don’t have to worry about all of the things that the average working class legal citizen has to deal with.
I leave in an already poverty stricken area of the country. When added, the cost of dealing with illegal immigrants, can sometimes break these local communities which receive little help from the federal government. Hospitals, schools, the justice system, all of these services are bursting from the burden.
My understanding of the Church’s position on immigration (at least what it used to be) is that countries who are blessed with wealth have an obligation to take in the needy seeking shelter in that nation, however, if that burden becomes to much, ie., if it begins to hurt the host nation, than that nation has a right to set regulations on immigration.
If anyone wants to see how far it’s gotten, I would ask you to visit the border counties of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. You’ll be asking yourself if you’ve entered Mexico. Now, I know some of you may have been to Cancuun, or Alcapulco, but believe me, the tourist areas of the resort towns are far from representative of the way most Mexicans live.
The best hope for both our Nations is that Calderon is successful in destroying the drug cartels, that he cleans up the corruption in the government, gives the people a decent wage and a good educational system.
Mexico could be such a prosperous nation. It is rich in oil and minerals. It has thousands of miles of beautiful coast, fertile soil and ranch land. If we want to be truely charitable toward our neighbor to the south, we would help them to build their country into what they come in search of here.
“Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime.”
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Jeffrey
Guest
He’s really doing that? Calderon? I hope so… could you PM me some links please? Like to add them to my site. Tiwahe.com Thx.
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