Pope on Abortion

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God bless you dolphinlove. I can assure you that you are not the type being referred to by the Holy Father for excommunication. You are the perfect example of God’s love for us. You are sinner, (as are we all), you’ve seen the errors of your ways, you were repentant, and are in communion with the Church and God. Please continue to pass on your findings to those who are currently suffering this horror.

Yours in Christ,

Steven
Hi Steven,
Yes, the reason I told my story here is cause if somebody is at a stage now thinking they might go ahead with it, my story might help them with the decision they are about to make.
I pray for anyone that has gone through this, and anyone who is about to go through with it. Its very hard and very sad.
 
Eighteen Democratic members of the US House of Representatives have joined in criticizing Pope Benedict XVI for his statement that pro-abortion politicians should not receive Communion.
But the Democratic legislators, led by Rep. Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut, charged that the Pope’s stand (and by implication the laws of the Church) “offend the very nature of the American experiment.”
A move to exclude pro-abortion legislators from receiving Communion would be “a great disservice to the centuries of good work the Church has done,” the 18 Congressmen argued.
Heres the link:

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=51150

It seems people should quit calling them “democratic” and just stick with “democrat party”.
 
I think the politicans stances on abortion are a dissservce of the Church, I would hate to see people especially politicans walk around preaching a different message that contradicts their religion.

What annoys me the most is how people, especially politicans just expect the Catholic Church to change their teachings and doctrines just so it can suit them.
 
Interesting topic.

I know someone who has had an abortion. My ex-gf from about 7 years ago told me she had one when she was younger. Here it states that abortion carries excommunication.

I’ve also heard that God can forgive you for anything.

So… if one has had an abortion, can they still be a Catholic who is not excommunicated? What would she have to do?

Thanks.

(No, I wasn’t the father… she was on the pill when we dated… way before I came into the church.)
Go to confession with SINCERE remorse, make a perfect act of contrition, take the penance given by father, and continue on with your Catholic life. Make this sin no more, and help others as well.

Peace,

Steven
 
I think the politicans stances on abortion are a dissservce of the Church, I would hate to see people especially politicans walk around preaching a different message that contradicts their religion.

What annoys me the most is how people, especially politicans just expect the Catholic Church to change their teachings and doctrines just so it can suit them.
I don’t think they care, as long as their religious affiliation buys them enough votes.
 
Good posts from you all. Now, I pose this question to you. As Catholics, what are we willing to do about this mess? All the documentation that I have read indicates that unless the Pope makes an official decree on the subject, the decision of sacrament denial remains in the hands of the bishops. Are we now willing to write to our local bishop to support the Pope?
 
JP2 will always be the Pope I’m most impressed with, but I like this decision. Too many people call themselves Catholic/Christian, but act in accordance to the world and it’s culture of death. **It’s about time someone eliminated the hypocrits from the Church. **(peacefully I mean)
Contraception is part of the culture of death as well. You really want to dump the church of hypocrits? If you do so, you will be dumping 80%. Everybody jumped to fast on Brad’s bandwagon and did think this thru to it’s inevitable conclusion. No offence Brad.
 
And while we are at it, why don’t we dump those catholics that are adamant that LIMBO is an official DOCTRINE of the Catholic Church.
 
Contraception is part of the culture of death as well. You really want to dump the church of hypocrits? If you do so, you will be dumping 80%. Everybody jumped to fast on Brad’s bandwagon and did think this thru to it’s inevitable conclusion. No offence Brad.
Didn’t our Pope say that the Church will get smaller?
 
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JoeyWarren:
I have no idea if he said it or not.
Ratzinger has also said on many occasions that the church of the future may have to be smaller to remain faithful…
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JoeyWarren:
If he did say it, is he now a prophet?
I gather that he did say it and that he is still Pope.
 
Fate, I think you have it wrong. The Catholic Church tries to legislate morality by educating it’s faithful on morals. Period.

The Catholic Church is simply asking Catholic Politicians to act like Catholic Politicians. You can’t say, “I’m Catholic, and it’s a sin to have an abortion”, and then turn around and say, “An abortion is a woman’s right”.

If the United States (or any other democracy) wants abortions to be legal, they should elect politicians that believe that way. But it’s hypocritical to see guys like John Kerry go to communion and then go to a “Planned Parenthood” rally.
I’ve been away, so I haven’t had a chance to respond. In government, society, etc… there are positive and negative actions. Saying that “government should not make a law legislating a moral issue” is not saying that “people have a right to do this”. The job of a politician is not to represent their personal beliefs - it is to be a mediator for the people. Catholicism asserts that abortion is wrong. Not every church does so. Now, you may argue (and indeed be correct), that those churches are wrong, but that does not stop that view from being existant.

Government exists to prevent rule by the strongest. Without laws against fraud, theft, murder, abuse - society would not be able to function. Frankly, I do not agree with a lot of legislation on pornography - a moral issue. But that said, legislation that is designed to prevent exploitation of individuals (non-willing or non-informed consent) pass back into the realm of non-morality and about interaction of society.

The problem with legislating moral issues is that having an authority say “this is wrong” without any backing as to why that is wrong, will result in people ignoring that authority. Thus, we create a situation where people willingly ignore the government in critical areas because it has attempted to make a moral decision. If a church says “this is wrong” - then they have a moral backing and framework to work from.

The cold hard truth is that as long as their are coat hangers and desperation, there will be abortions. Would you rather they happen underground unheard? If you want to prevent abortion - focus on those doing and performing them, and keep government out. All government can do here is make a horrible circumstance even worse.

Now, that said, I see a very large difference in what you are saying about Kerry. He is, according to you, performing a positive action (attending a planned parenthood rally). There is a difference between not creating a law making something illegal, and passing laws to make something views as immoral gain moral respect.

Here’s the thing - a politican isn’t only representing the people that voted for him, he is also representing the people that voted against him as well. A politican has a moral obligation to take into account all views of the people he represents - Catholic or not. Would you view an elected Protestant that made using wine and bread during church services illegal a moral person?

Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that government shouldn’t legislate morality, but it also shouldn’t promote things like abortion. A politician voting against an anti-abortion law, is far different than a politician passing laws for abortion.
 
Fate, you bring up a very valid argument about legislating morality. But, quite honestly , that’s what government has been doing since its inception. Abortion? Alchohol? Gambling? Gun control? etc.

The biggest problem with what you are saying is that you’ve just made the politician little more than a poll follower. How do I vote? Let’s take a poll and I’ll follow the results. That system has led to the media steering the direction of the polls, even influencing them to meet their own agendas. What happens when you elect a politician because he says he’s going to support the war, and then in mid-term, public sentiment turns against the war.

I say a politician should state his values. If the majority of his district agree with his values, then he’ll be voted in. If not, then better luck next time.

As I read this, though, I realize that your ideaology is good on paper (pol’s should represent districts opinions), but fails in practice. And then I present an ideaology that sounds good on paper, buts fails on paper as well.

Hmmmmmm… maybe this is a bigger problem than I thought. :doh2:
 
This gets at an interesting issue on the Church and State separation. What the Constitution says is that the Federal Government shall not extablish a state religion…it is interesting to note that at the time of the ratification of the Constitution, the States did not all agree with this. In fact, several of them established state wide national religions. It is true. Maryland, for instance, once had Catholicism as the State religion. This was never challenged in court, and it was only after each state wrote its own constitution that the practice was abandoned.

The point is that, strictly speaking, abortion is not a Constitutional issue at all. In fact, via the Constitution, it is an issue that should be determined by the individual state.

It could, however, be drawn from the Constitution that the government has no right to dictate any aspect of religious practice. If that is true, than the Pope may say and do whatever he likes in his house…the Catholic Church, and government should not be able to infringe upon him at all.
 
OK, so this is a bit off topic, so please don’t thrash me… I am so glad to see the Pope took such a hard-line position on abortion, but many people don’t realize that several common vaccines made for use in the Unites States are made with ‘human diploid cells’ which are originated from HUMAN ABORTED FETAL CELLS. (including chicken pox, and the newest for HPV-being falsely marketed to prevent cervical cancer).
Just some food for thought. Since I learned this a few weeks back, I have had to SERIOUSLY reconsider what I feel is most important to me and my family. Would I rather have my daughter sick a couple days with a non-life-threatening illness like chicken pox, or injected with cells from an aborted fetus.
And just for the record, I have heard that the Church supported some of the research to develop said vaccines (or that they were developed in conjunction with Catholic hospitals, some overseas). I have not been able to confirm this, but if anyone has info, I would love to hear it…

OK, back to the original discussion…🤷
 
OK, so this is a bit off topic, so please don’t thrash me… I am so glad to see the Pope took such a hard-line position on abortion, but many people don’t realize that several common vaccines made for use in the Unites States are made with ‘human diploid cells’ which are originated from HUMAN ABORTED FETAL CELLS. (including chicken pox, and the newest for HPV-being falsely marketed to prevent cervical cancer).
Just some food for thought. Since I learned this a few weeks back, I have had to SERIOUSLY reconsider what I feel is most important to me and my family. Would I rather have my daughter sick a couple days with a non-life-threatening illness like chicken pox, or injected with cells from an aborted fetus.
And just for the record, I have heard that the Church supported some of the research to develop said vaccines (or that they were developed in conjunction with Catholic hospitals, some overseas). I have not been able to confirm this, but if anyone has info, I would love to hear it…

OK, back to the original discussion…🤷
Ok, I am going to touch on this for just a second. Yes, both of the vaccines were developed using embryonic stem cells. However, they could have both been developed using adult stem cells as well. This is what the Vatican has supported. There is no need to destroy a life to create the vaccine.

Cheers!

Brad
 
Fate, you bring up a very valid argument about legislating morality. But, quite honestly , that’s what government has been doing since its inception. Abortion? Alchohol? Gambling? Gun control? etc.
Abortion - arranged accidents, coat hangers in dark streets, babies abandoned in trash cans

Alcohol - organized crime, police corruption, speak easys, drunk driving, increased teen alcohol use vs. europe, …

Gambling - see alcohol

Gun control - the US has one of the highest gun crime rates in the world, vs. Canada and other countries that allow guns… This is also more of a protective issue than a moral one.

Bonus ones:

Drugs - racist motivated laws lead to high arrest rates of minorities, death from fake or ‘spiked’ drugs, support terrorism, feed gang crime and money

Prostitution - increase crime rates in large areas of the city, lead to spread of disease, lack of counciling for women involved, ‘no way out’, early deaths

Alcohol is a good example – the crime and vice caused by its prohibition versus the issues we have now with it. People can always get what the government says they can’t have - unless you want to live in a police state.
The biggest problem with what you are saying is that you’ve just made the politician little more than a poll follower. How do I vote? Let’s take a poll and I’ll follow the results.
Yes and no. A politician should listen to polls, but they should be using a core set of idealogies to determine what they do as well. That core set of idealogies should be guiding their decisions about governmental policy though - not government legislating morality.

Governmental policy: should their be a national health care system, how should guns be controlled, what should immigration policy be, where should the US fund alternative energy, how to manage roads…

Morality or Religion: what types of porn should be allowed if any; how should movies be rated? are recreational drugs ok? can people have sex before they are married? can people have homosexual relations? can people burn religious icons? is satanism acceptable? should a belief in God be required to serve in office?
That system has led to the media steering the direction of the polls, even influencing them to meet their own agendas. What happens when you elect a politician because he says he’s going to support the war, and then in mid-term, public sentiment turns against the war.
If the public doesn’t support a war - you can’t win that war. Here’s a better question: what happens when the public speaks loudly against a war, but the politican supports it anyway?
I say a politician should state his values. If the majority of his district agree with his values, then he’ll be voted in. If not, then better luck next time.
Yes, but that politician should still represent all of the members in his district. That’s the problem with this country - we have in office people that think only those that voted for them matter.
As I read this, though, I realize that your ideaology is good on paper (pol’s should represent districts opinions), but fails in practice. And then I present an ideaology that sounds good on paper, buts fails on paper as well.
Perhaps so, there is no magical cure for government - it is run by imperfect people, it will be imperfect.
 
Those who are for abortion have already excommunicated themselves. They are in clear defianceand disobedience to God’s divine will and commandment,"Thou shall not kill."How can a mother even think of killing her own child in her womb ? You call it choice? The choice to kill your very own innocent child?
I agree with this. I mean, it’s murder!!! How can you justify murder like that?
 
Getting to the point on this issue, I firmly believe that it is the duty of each and every Catholic to stand up for the Pope on this issue. We all know that abortion is wrong, as this is the teaching of the Church. We also know, based on the statements of the Pope that excommunication is the fate of any and all polician that votes in support of abortion. What we need to do as Catholics is make our voice loud and proud in support of the Pope to the people that matter…the bishops, as they will be making the final call in the US at this point unless the Pope gives an official decree.

Brad
 
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