Pope or councils?

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Why did Peter use a council (Acts 15) when he was infallible? Couldn’t he just say what needed to be done without a council? And what the other councils, why were they needed when the Pope is infallible?

Note: I am not questioning whether the Catholic faith is true. I’m just curious.
 
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trumpet152:
Why did Peter use a council (Acts 15) when he was infallible? Couldn’t he just say what needed to be done without a council? And what the other councils, why were they needed when the Pope is infallible?

Note: I am not questioning whether the Catholic faith is true. I’m just curious.
The Church does not teach that the Pope is an Infallible person. Your question above goes beyond what the Church teaches concerning the Pope.

The Church does however teach:

When the Roman pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, **

  1. *]in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians,
    *]in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority,
    *]he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church,

    **he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the church, irreformable.
 
Yep. But even though the definitions of the Pope (such as Peter) don’t need the Church’s consent to make them infallible, the Pope in general likes to work with things that the Church already accepts. As far as I know, all the statements that have been made ex cathedra in the past were doctrines that were already widely accepted by Catholics and it was the Church who wanted them formalised and sort of put on a pedestal, and the Pope agreed so he went ahead and said it. It isn’t like the Pope generally uses his position to force teachings on the Church that the Church doesn’t want (although, that doesn’t mean that he can’t do that). I suppose the Pope is a dictator who acts like a democratically elected leader (-:

Peter probably thought it would be best to get approval of a council so that Catholics everywhere would be happy with the proclamation rather than accepting it half heartedly, or something like that.
 
Also the Pope cannot go against the whole of the college of Bishops.
 
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kleary:
When the Roman pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, **

  1. *]in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians,
    *]in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority,
    *]he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church,

    **he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the church, irreformable.

  1. Just last night I was in discussion with a Baptist friend, and he wanted to know where the required criteria mentioned above for the Pope to be infallible, actually came from.

    Now I want to know the same thing!

    Is there a scriptural basis for this, or was it necessary to define the criteria at a later point in history?
 
There is both Scriptural and Traditional basis for it, but it’s quite a long bit of history to dive into. In short it amounts to a conclusion based on a couple of known facts: a) the Church can not teach error (Scripture), b) the Church is defined, in part, through its unity with Peter/the See of Rome (Tradition/Church Fathers/Church Councils), and c) from early times the See of Rome was held as an “appelate court” with jurisdiction to address complaints about local bishops that otherwise would have no place to go (Tradition/Fathers).

From these it’s basically concluded that “where goes Rome, so goes the Church”, because if Rome is the “final court of appeals”, and the Church can’t err, then God must protect the Bishop of Rome from error in those extraordinary circumstances when he must act as guide for the whole Church. The exercise of this “power” is extraordinary, not ordinary, meaning it’s not something that’s tossed around on a daily basis by virtue of the Bishop of Rome being Pope. On the contrary, the man who is Pope has three “roles”: Pope of the Catholic Church, Patriarch of the Latin Church, and Bishop of Rome. My estimation is that 98% of the time he’s operating in the capacity of either of the latter two, rather than the former. The fact is that he just doesn’t have to work as “Pope of the Catholic Church” most of the time (though he must always be concious of the fact that he is the Pope, and the responsibility that entails), and most Popes wouldn’t WANT to work in that capacity all the time (there aren’t enough hours in a day, or cells in the brain).

In day to day operation of the Church, it’s the Magisterium (the bishops in Communion with Rome, including the Bishop of Rome himself) that operates “infallibly”, because “as go the bishops, so goes the Church”, and the Church can’t err. Even the Magisterium can operate as a whole in extraordinary circumstances, meaning Ecumenical Councils (and this is similar, though not identical, to what occured in the Council of Jerusalem). These are used for most cases of heresy pervading the Church, where the bishops can come together and discuss the Faith and the Truth, and issue rulings as a body about what to do regarding the matter at hand. Since the Pope isn’t the “king of the Church”, he’s bound by Ecumenical Councils as well, with the caveat being that the Pope in office during an Ecumenical Council has “veto power” in the Council (based on what was said above). Once an Ecumenical Council has been set, however, the decisions are binding on the Pope(s) as well.

So we have the “ordinary Magisterium”, which operates infallibly on a day to day basis, and two operations of “extraordinary Magisterium”, which operate in extraordinary circumstances. All rest in the same promise of Christ to the Church, however, that the “gates of Hell will not prevail against it”.

The decree concerning the infallibility of the Pope, and under what circumstances it applies, is found in the documents of the First Vatican Council (it’s the last Canon just before the footnotes). The documents pertaining to the Magisterium in general are scattered throughout history, but are best summed up in Lumen Gentium, from the Second Vatican Council.

Peace and God bless!
 
Thank you for that great answer! It will take a couple of re-reads to digest it, but that’s a good thing.
Actually I have a couple of other questions raised in the meeting with my friend last night, but I’ll start another thread for that. If you like you might help me out with some answers along with anyone else.
Thanks again and God bless.

Now back to the scheduled program…
 
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captaincoog:
Thank you for that great answer! It will take a couple of re-reads to digest it, but that’s a good thing.
Actually I have a couple of other questions raised in the meeting with my friend last night, but I’ll start another thread for that. If you like you might help me out with some answers along with anyone else.
Thanks again and God bless.

Now back to the scheduled program…
Glad to help, but don’t forget to read the original documents as well. I doubt your friend will be convinced by “Ghosty said” 😛

As for any other questions, I’ll do whatever I possibly can to help you answer them! 🙂

Peace and God bless!
 
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captaincoog:
Just last night I was in discussion with a Baptist friend, and he wanted to know where the required criteria mentioned above for the Pope to be infallible, actually came from.

Now I want to know the same thing!

Is there a scriptural basis for this, or was it necessary to define the criteria at a later point in history?
On the other hand, Divine Revelation does not come from Scripture alone, however Matthew 16:18 is a start.

Ken
 
Trumpet:

It’s a matter of implications. The handing of the keys can be glanced over and over and not really reflected upon is the historical and juridical ramifications of this Divine act. Christ granted the stewardship of souls to Peter when he did this. Some easily drawn conclusions can be made. 1. The handling of the keys point to an official position. 2. If one is to bind and loose, the authority to delineate is a necessity. Therefore, the moral norms need to be articulated 3. This Position as any earthly position must be transitive—and we have 265 times practiced this.

in XT.
 
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