Pope orders new rules on relations between bishops, religious orders

[Cojuanco]

What is a bishop to do then if members of a religious community are teaching bad theology in his diocese? Just let them? Shouldn’t a bishop, who is the chief shepherd of the diocese, be able to ask a religious community to leave (or at least silence them) if there is a good reason? One example comes to mind, say a community was notorious for teaching bad theology to the laity. A good bishop would not want them to be able to serve in the diocese in any capacity which would give them an opportunity to teach that theology to the lay faithful of his diocese. What are they to do? They will make an account to God for the souls entrusted to their care, so surely they are not powerless to silence- or, if need be, remove- a community from their diocese.

This is what happens IIRC:

The bishop appeals to the religious institute’s superior where it exists, usually in Rome. If particularly egregious, the Vatican is informed. Then discussion is held, in private, between the Bishop’s men, those of the religious order, including the Superior, and perhaps some people from the Vatican. Worst comes to worst, the Superior or the Vatican orders the offending religious to cease and desist their heresy, or simply reassignes them.

canonlawmadeeasy.com/2009/07/09/notre-dame-obama-and-the-bishops-authority/

 

[JReducation]

What is a bishop to do then if members of a religious community are teaching bad theology in his diocese? Just let them? Shouldn’t a bishop, who is the chief shepherd of the diocese, be able to ask a religious community to leave (or at least silence them) if there is a good reason? One example comes to mind, say a community was notorious for teaching bad theology to the laity. A good bishop would not want them to be able to serve in the diocese in any capacity which would give them an opportunity to teach that theology to the lay faithful of his diocese. What are they to do? They will make an account to God for the souls entrusted to their care, so surely they are not powerless to silence- or, if need be, remove- a community from their diocese.

A bishop only has authority over those who belong to his diocese. These are the diocesan clergy and the laity. Unless a religious community is a diocesan community, it does not belong to the diocese. It belongs to the Church and it’s supreme moderator is the pope himself. Let’s take your case. I’m assuming that you’re a layman. Between you and the pope there is a chain of command: pastor, bishop, etc. Between me and the pope there is only the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life. Bishops cannot go over the curia and much less the pope.

Now read below.

This is what happens IIRC:

The bishop appeals to the religious institute’s superior where it exists, usually in Rome. If particularly egregious, the Vatican is informed. Then discussion is held, in private, between the Bishop’s men, those of the religious order, including the Superior, and perhaps some people from the Vatican. Worst comes to worst, the Superior or the Vatican orders the offending religious to cease and desist their heresy, or simply reassignes them.

canonlawmadeeasy.com/2009/07/09/notre-dame-obama-and-the-bishops-authority/

This is perfectly correct. Normally this is how it happens.

There is one notation that must be made here.

If the religious in question is employed by the bishop, the bishop can fire him or her. But you have to employed by him. He can fire you, but he cannot ask your community to leave his diocese. If you are fired, then you cannot exercise your ministry under the name of the diocese. You can, however, exercise it under the name of your community. That will depend on your superior.

This takes back to doctrine and philosophy. The person who receives your vows is the person to whom you answer. If you’re a religious in a pontifical institute, the person receiving your vows is the Holy Father through your superior, not the bishop. The bishop will usually celebrate the mass, but at the time of make the vows, you’ll notice that the bishop steps to the side or sits to the side. The religious superior approaches and sits at the center of the sanctuary. You kneel before him, place your hands in his hands and you vow obedience to him, to your founder and to the pope.

Then the superior responds something like this, "I, in the name of the Church, receive your vows . . . " Notice, who’s doing the speaking in the name of the Church.

 

[McCall1981]

I believe this is going to be a very positive document. The two congregations are working together. That gives everyone a chance to see what each side needs, wants and can bring to the table.

The religious superiors and bishops will be working as partners. That’s another good thing.

Both Holy Fathers have asked them to pay special attention to the role of the religious brother and the lay brother. Canon Law asked this also, back in 1983. But the problem there is that there is so much in Canon Law that it’s easy to forget. Only a few bishops began to promote brothers’ vocations: Cardinal Sean of Boston began to promote Franciscan brothers (not the priests), Cardinal Dolan of NY, began to promote the Franciscan brothers as well. Archbishop Wenski of Miami also promotes Franciscan brothers. I don’t know of other diocese where the bishops have actually mentioned it. Maybe they have and it has not gotten around. Pope Francis has asked again that this be a priority.

They’ll have to address the family. The pool of vocations is small. Unless you do something with the family, you’re not going to have vocations. This will benefit the family.

**Traditionalists are going to like it, because the doctrines of Trent regarding religious life will be “resurrected”. They’re not dead, because they’re doctrinal points. They can’t die. But people don’t really know them. I imagine these being introduced into religious education. That will be good. I can also see them being taught to diocesan seminarians. This will be good for them. There are diocesan priests who point blank admit that they know nothing about religious life and they don’t know how to guide a vocation to the religious life other than to refer him or her to a vocation director. Many will also tell you that they don’t know how to serve as spiritual directors to religious, because the don’t understand this way of life. They reduce spiritual direction to confession. Confession is not spiritual direction. **

I think it will help religious. Most of us who are elected or appointed superiors want to work with bishops, but it needs to be coordinated so that the charism of the community is transparent, not just the work. When you walk into a parish, school or other place run by a religious community, it should smell like them. You should be able to see the faithful at a parish run by religious grow in the spirituality of the order. That spirituality should be conveyed from the pulpit. After all, every school of religious life comes from the Gospel. It´s just a difference in emphasis.

I know it can happen, because I’ve seen parishes run by certain religious orders and the laity reflects the spirit of the order. Most of the time, the laity does not realize it.

This will be a good thing. The particular are anyone’s guess. I think we should not try to guess. Let’s wait and see.

I like the sound of this, good to know

 

[pnewton]

What is a bishop to do then if members of a religious community are teaching bad theology in his diocese? Just let them?

What do you do about anyone that teaches bad theology? If it is a priest, you can move them. What if it is a layperson, or a non-Catholic? You can (1) not give any venue or support for the program, class, etc. that is inconsistent with the Faith, and (2) speak the truth and correct the error. If anything, being a religious, gives a bishop a third avenue of action through the superior.

I really think this is a non-issue 90% of the time. Cooperation is a win-win and conflict is always going to be a lose-lose.

 

[JReducation]

Common’ folks, don’t make me feel badly about posting the article. I thought it was a good thing that religious (as in consecrated life) tradition is going to be looked at again and I also thought that people would be overjoyed at the fact that the Holy Father himself is concerned about the low number of religious brothers, which are in danger of going extinct. There is a greater danger there than there is of priests going extinct. And as Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict have said, the brothers are essential to the life of the Church. Without them, the Church is less Catholic. They’re looking at the greatest brothers of all, St. Benedict. Most people don’t know that he was a religious brother, not a priest. Then there is St. Francis of Assisi, another religious brother. Brother Lawrence was a religious brother who made great contribution to Christian Spirituality.

Then we have the great contributions by brothers such as the De La Salle schools, Xaverian schools, Marist schools, Alexian hospital systems, Brothers of St. John of God and their great hospitals, Good Shepherd homes for the elderly, the many Franciscan brother preachers who evangelized the mission fields and much of Europe during the Middle Ages, the monastic brothers who gave us the Bible and other works of faith, the early monastic brothers who gave us Gregorian chant and many other communities of brothers and individual brothers.

I thought this would cause some excitement that an old and venerable way of life that has played such a vital role in Catholic tradition is being looked at and that the Holy Father is trying to rescue it from dying out. I never expected people to be alarmed. Otherwise, I would not have posted it. I hate alarmists and I hate alarming.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I’m happy to see this development. The consecrated life is essential to Catholicism. I’d love to see it flourishing everywhere.

 

[Aramis]

I see a few issues, good friar, with the list.

it is unrealistic to expect the laity not to comment upon the internals. Prohibition will have little effect other that to drive a further wedge between laity and religious. Worded instead that “papal right religious have no need to consider the opinions of bishops nor the laity in regard to their internal affairs,” it would be a whole lot more realistc.

It is not universal that all religious communities are papal right; traditional byzantine monastics are diocesan right - they do answer to the bishop, tho not the diocesan sobor.

Byzantine tradition also has almost every male or joint monastery serving as the local parish. (even there is a big east-west difference: joint monasteries are not .)

I half expect his holiness to put in separate rules for the Eastern Churches.

 

[pnewton]

There is a greater danger there than there is of priests going extinct.

I do not know if I subscribe to the adage that there is no such thing a bad press, but I think it goes without saying that most press is good. In this case, the discussion as well as any changes that come along will increase awareness of the importance of religious vocations and the need for those who are called to enter consecrated life.

 

[JReducation]

I see a few issues, good friar, with the list.

it is unrealistic to expect the laity not to comment upon the internals. Prohibition will have little effect other that to drive a further wedge between laity and religious. Worded instead that “papal right religious have no need to consider the opinions of bishops nor the laity in regard to their internal affairs,” it would be a whole lot more realistc.

The wording that the Council of Major Superiors of Men used is taken word for word from the Council of Trent. The Council of Superiors is simply picking out points from Trent and putting them on the list as things that need to be addressed. How Rome chooses to word it in a future document, I have no idea. It would be premature for us to react to something that has not been written. It is great that the Holy Father is interested in seeing the document completed. Pope Benedict had asked for it and the idea was lost somewhere along the line.

There are consequences that the Church can and does impose on bishops and laymen for such things. I know of one parish in the USA where the bishop threatened to put it under interdict, if the lay people did not cease their destructive talk about the community that ran the parish and if they did not begin to cooperate with the community. I will also state that these things don’t happen everyday, because most of the time the talk is harmless. This particular situation was not. I can’t recall the place, but it was in the news.

It is not universal that all religious communities are papal right; traditional byzantine monastics are diocesan right - they do answer to the bishop, tho not the diocesan sobor.

Byzantine tradition also has almost every male or joint monastery serving as the local parish. (even there is a big east-west difference: joint monasteries are not .)

I half expect his holiness to put in separate rules for the Eastern Churches.

Religious of the Eastern Churches are not part of the Council of Major Superiors, nor are they under the jurisdiction of the Sacred Congregation for Consecrated LIfe. They are under the Congregation for Oriental Churches. Documents that apply to us, do not always apply to them and the other way around. The two forms of religious life are very different, because of our different roots.

 

[TimothyH]

It seems simple to me.

"I also know that the bishops are not always acquainted with the charisms and works of religious," he said. "We bishops need to understand that consecrated persons are not functionaries but gifts that enrich dioceses.

Leave the religious to be what God created them to be. Let them do the work that God put them on earth for. Don’t try to make them into something they were not put here for by God.

I think this is going to be very good. No one today has a priest or religious in their family. Back in the day every family had a priest or someone in religious life, or they had a cousin who was a priest, brother or sister whom they knew personally. They weren’t just the guy in the funny dress who visited the parish once each year, or weren’t just the guy who says Mass on Sunday. It was your brother or cousin. We have lost knowledge of how the religious work, why they are here and how they are a vital part of our Church in-and-of themselves, apart from any benefit we get from them personally - functionaries.

Traditionalists should really be celebrating this as a restoration of part of the Church to the way it was in the past.

The permanent diaconate has been restored after 1000 years of disuse. The bishops of Pheonix AZ and Fargo ND have restored the Sacrament of Confirmation to it’s proper order, before first communion, the way it was in the early Church. Pope Benedict XVI praised them for it at the time and I hope I live to see it worldwide. Whatever these rules are, any restoration of the rightful place of the religious orders or attempt to understand them better is more of the same.

Traditionalists speak about a purer Church. This is it right here.

-Tim-

 

[KyrieEleison17]

For me, as a religious, this is very exciting for a number of reasons. This document about religious brothers, which Pope Benedict asked the curia to work on is finally going to be written. This is an important document, because the brothers in many communities are being ignored or ill used. Unfortunately, the laity is learning to do as it sees some orders do, which is what Pope Benedict commented on to superiors.

It’s also exciting to see that Rome is finally going to make it clear that dioceses must respect the charisms of religious communities and not use communities for their needs alone. This was a concern that superiors communicated to Pope Francis. Because the laity is learning this as well.

At the end of the day, it’s not the laity’s fault that its expectations of religious and its treatment of some religious is inappropriate when such expectations and behaviors is modeled for them by the local clergy.

There has been some serious trouble. Some superiors have gotten fed up with certain situations and have pulled their men with only 24 hours notice. Walking to your church for morning mass and finding that no one is home can be rather traumatic for some people or walking to your school and finding that the brothers are not there and you have your homework in you hand. Had you known that the math teacher was going to bail out the night before, you would have played video games instead.

Fortunately, in my lifetime, I’ve only seen this happen twice. But there should never situations where the dialogue simple collapses and people walk in frustration. There have to be better systems in place and rules of engagement that are clear.

Anyway, for what it’s worth. Here’s the article.

Pope outlines new rules . . .

Thank you Brother. We all know you are a humble servant of Jesus Christ and dedicate your life for those whom He shed His sacred Blood for.

Personally, I think religious orders need a massive overhaul themselves. But that is for the future.

God bless; and may the Son of God shine ever on the Franciscans and make them conform ever more to His own holy Family.

 

[asnate]

Here is the article in La Civilta Cattolica:
laciviltacattolica.it/articoli_download/extra/Wake_up_the_world.pdf

 

[YoungTradCath]

I agree with TimothyH (for once). This is good. Trads have the least of anyone to worry about.

 

[Avila123]

Here is the article in La Civilta Cattolica:
laciviltacattolica.it/articoli_download/extra/Wake_up_the_world.pdf

Thank you for the article.

From the article, Pope Francis appears to recognise a plethora of challenges facing the religious without diminishing the value of their works in faith and love. He also tells them what he expects "What I expect of you therefore is to give witness. I want this special Witness from religious.” And reinforces the message later by saying "religious are and women who light the way to the future.” I also like the reference to the religious being like yeast (bit surprised that hasn’t been picked up on, but perhaps it is too subtle for the media).

If the talk was directed at me, I would be inspired, yet terrified. For me, this is another example of Pope Francis at his best (and scariest) on the Roller Coaster of living the faith. I imagine the options being:

a. Get on the Roller Coaster enjoying the thrills and screaming in panic until the end, arriving somewhat untidy, queasy and elated at the achievement.
b. Prop up the Roller Coaster, sweating and fearful, yet determined the journey will conclude safely.
c. Exhaust ourselves with unnecessary hysteria so we are not able to do anything.
d. Simply passively watch as life rolls past us at a distance and without personal inconvenience.

Hope I can be a (b).

 

[SerraSemper]

Common’ folks, don’t make me feel badly about posting the article. I thought it was a good thing that religious (as in consecrated life) tradition is going to be looked at again and I also thought that people would be overjoyed at the fact that the Holy Father himself is concerned about the low number of religious brothers, which are in danger of going extinct. There is a greater danger there than there is of priests going extinct. And as Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict have said, the brothers are essential to the life of the Church. Without them, the Church is less Catholic. They’re looking at the greatest brothers of all, St. Benedict. Most people don’t know that he was a religious brother, not a priest. Then there is St. Francis of Assisi, another religious brother. Brother Lawrence was a religious brother who made great contribution to Christian Spirituality.

Then we have the great contributions by brothers such as the De La Salle schools, Xaverian schools, Marist schools, Alexian hospital systems, Brothers of St. John of God and their great hospitals, Good Shepherd homes for the elderly, the many Franciscan brother preachers who evangelized the mission fields and much of Europe during the Middle Ages, the monastic brothers who gave us the Bible and other works of faith, the early monastic brothers who gave us Gregorian chant and many other communities of brothers and individual brothers.

I thought this would cause some excitement that an old and venerable way of life that has played such a vital role in Catholic tradition is being looked at and that the Holy Father is trying to rescue it from dying out. I never expected people to be alarmed. Otherwise, I would not have posted it. I hate alarmists and I hate alarming.

Amen, Brother! I am glad you brought this up. We are long overdue for a document on religious brothers, no doubt about it. We need to make sure religious life for non-ordained males does not go extinct.

 

[JReducation]

It seems simple to me.

"I also know that the bishops are not always acquainted with the charisms and works of religious," he said. "We bishops need to understand that consecrated persons are not functionaries but gifts that enrich dioceses.

I have lived through this both times in religious life. I’ve worked with wonderful bishops who were diocesan priests and did not have a clue about religious life. Male religious life always throws secular bishops, because they tend to think “PRIEST”. They see a Dominican or Franciscan who’s a priest and they think, “PRIEST”. When they have to deal with a superior who says, “Yes, I’ll take that parish, but our men have these and these community obligations; therefore, they’ll have to change some things in the parish,” the bishop is not too sure why they just can’t change the community’s structure or schedule.

Or when the bishop has a Redemptorist and a Carmelite superior in his diocese, he has no idea of the difference between an order and a congregation. He tries to deal with both superiors as if they were at the helm of the same kind of institute, which they are not.

In these cases, the poor bishop can’t be blamed for saying or doing the wrong thing. These things are not taught in the seminary. They’re all explained in theology, Canon Law and church history, but these are the chapters that they skip in a diocesan seminary.

When I, whom am not a priest, go in and tell a bishop or a parish that Brother X who is a priest and wants to celebrate the EF for the parish, may not do so, I get . The confusion is not about the EF. Everyone knows the SP allows the superior to make this call. The confusion is that a “brother” is making this call for a priest; because people don’t realize that they are both equally brothers and that the one is the superior, even if he’s not ordained. The other owes him absolute obedience in all things but sin.

Things like this need to be clarified again. Tent addressed them, but they get forgotten. Trent addressed so much, who can remember it all?

Leave the religious to be what God created them to be. Let them do the work that God put them on earth for. Don’t try to make them into something they were not put here for by God.

This happened between Vatican I and Vatican II. That’s how we got novitiates that were overflowing. Many people look back and morn the absence of those huge novitiates. The truth is that the focus shifted from religious life to the priesthood. If you wanted to be a priest, you picked a diocese or a religious community, entered, made vows and were later ordained. You lived and worked as a priest.

What happened? The communities lost their identity. Franciscans were running huge parishes and Catholic schools. Dominicans were running parishes instead of going on preaching tours. Carmelites were running parishes, schools and other institutions, instead of spending time in solitude and prayer. Salesians practically abandoned their schools to take their place in parishes. You see the chaos?

Vatican II tried to correct this issuing Perfectae Caritatis. But that was only a beginning. More had to be said and was not said. What happened? Some people went over the top with reform. Instead of recovering the identity of their religious community, they lost their identity as Catholics and became generic Christian social workers.

I think this is going to be very good. No one today has a priest or religious in their family. Back in the day every family had a priest or someone in religious life, or they had a cousin who was a priest, brother or sister whom they knew personally.

If this document addresses the vocation pool, which I believe it should, then it will force the bishops and the Pontifical Council on the Family to do more intense work with families. You can’t pull vocations for religious orders of men and for the dioceses out of the same poor when the pool is now a puddle. We no longer have large families and we have fewer and fewer families who promote consecrated life or priesthood. The promote wealth, power and pleasure.

Traditionalists should really be celebrating this as a restoration of part of the Church to the way it was in the past.

I have no idea what this document will say. As the superior of a community that is in its infancy and that is very traditional, I’m hoping that this will affirm what we already believe. We founded our community on the belief that the Gospel can be lived as St. Francis lived it and we can also proclaim the Gospel of Life without conflict. We don’t have to become militant anti-abortion protestors to preach the Gospel of life. On the contrary, the more we do it like Francis, with kindness, patience, understanding of the human condition, and the more we proclaim that Christ is Life itself and calls out to life and that he never abandons us, especially when we’re desperate, confused and alone, this is a much better way to proclaim the sanctity of life. Francis proclaimed the sanctity of life without ever getting into conflicts. There were many possibilities, especially with monarchs.

Traditionalists speak about a purer Church. This is it right here.

I wouldn’t point the finger at Trads. There are many visions of what a purer church is and it does not all come from the Trads. The feminists have their vision as well. I do agree, that a purer Church is one where God’s plan for us is clear.

 

[JReducation]

Personally, I think religious orders need a massive overhaul themselves. But that is for the future.

Yes they do. This is why so many little communities are being born. It’s easier to do the overhaul with small numbers. I have to admit that the large orders are trying. People are stubborn, even religious. “We’ve always done it this way.” My favorite one is, "I think . . . " Sometimes I want to just say to those religious, “Please stop thinking and just do what you’re told.”

Here is the article in La Civilta Cattolica:
laciviltacattolica.it/articoli_download/extra/Wake_up_the_world.pdf

Thank you so much. I didn’t know this existed. I’ll read it and comment on it later.

I agree with TimothyH (for once). This is good. Trads have the least of anyone to worry about.

I hope that’s the case. I can see some Trads a little worried, because so many people do not understand the brother-priest relationship in religious communities. Many people don’t understand that some religious communities cease to be what they were founded to be, if everyone is ordained, ie. Franciscans. If you ordain every Franciscan, you had better find a new name. Francis was not a priest and neither were the 10 brother founders. Another group that would cease to be, the Benedictines. St. Benedict the Abbot was not a priest and neither were his early monks. Ordain every Benedictine and Franciscan and there is no place for Benedict or Francis.

Many Trads understand priest, because he administers sacraments. But they don’t understand brother, because brother is a conduit of grace, not a mediator of grace. But the Church needs conduits and mediators, just as the house needs invisible wiring inside the walls (brothers) and outlets and switches to access the electricity (priests). Or just as we need both John the Baptist and Jesus. We rarely stop to think that they are inseparable.

Thank you for the article.

From the article, Pope Francis appears to recognise a plethora of challenges facing the religious without diminishing the value of their works in faith and love. He also tells them what he expects "What I expect of you therefore is to give witness. I want this special Witness from religious.” And reinforces the message later by saying "religious are and women who light the way to the future.” I also like the reference to the religious being like yeast (bit surprised that hasn’t been picked up on, but perhaps it is too subtle for the media).

Trust me. This is subtle for some Catholics. He’s actually quoting Bl. John Paul’s Vita Consecrata, which went right over most people’s heads.

If the talk was directed at me, I would be inspired, yet terrified.

I am both. I’ll tell you why. We’re going to gain a lot, but we’re also going to have to make compromises. That’s the natural rhythm of life. We religious cannot ask the bishops and the laity to understand us and not make an attempt to understand you. Love is like a ship on stormy waters. It sways both ways, as well as front and back. If we truly love, we have to be willing to be like the ship, to roll, rise and fall without sinking. We can’t expect steady and calm waters the whole way home to heaven. Ain’t gonna happen.

Amen, Brother! I am glad you brought this up. We are long overdue for a document on religious brothers, no doubt about it. We need to make sure religious life for non-ordained males does not go extinct.

Amen to this. This has been a real concern. I stop and think of the wonderful work done by brothers and the wonderful men that they have educated over the centuries, nursed back to health and the times they have put their lives on the line in mission field, during the French Revolution, even during our own Revolution and Civil War in the USA.

We had brothers in GA, VA, MD, DE, PA, and NY who nursed and protected Red Coats and Yankees, and Confederate and Union soldiers side by side, at different times of course. There is a beautiful story of a teaching brother in MD (don’t know which community). But it seems that the family was split between North and South. There were sons in both armies. This brother made possible a family Christmas at his religious house. Stories like that make my eyes water and my heart proud of our brothers, regardless of their order.

Our Catholic tradition goes beyond the TLM and Latin. Our religious institutes have been the backbone of our Catholic traditions and the schools of culture and Catholic thought.

 

[Cojuanco]

I have lived through this both times in religious life. I’ve worked with wonderful bishops who were diocesan priests and did not have a clue about religious life. Male religious life always throws secular bishops, because they tend to think “PRIEST”. They see a Dominican or Franciscan who’s a priest and they think, “PRIEST”. When they have to deal with a superior who says, “Yes, I’ll take that parish, but our men have these and these community obligations; therefore, they’ll have to change some things in the parish,” the bishop is not too sure why they just can’t change the community’s structure or schedule.

Or when the bishop has a Redemptorist and a Carmelite superior in his diocese, he has no idea of the difference between an order and a congregation. He tries to deal with both superiors as if they were at the helm of the same kind of institute, which they are not.

In these cases, the poor bishop can’t be blamed for saying or doing the wrong thing. These things are not taught in the seminary. They’re all explained in theology, Canon Law and church history, but these are the chapters that they skip in a diocesan seminary.

When I, whom am not a priest, go in and tell a bishop or a parish that Brother X who is a priest and wants to celebrate the EF for the parish, may not do so, I get . The confusion is not about the EF. Everyone knows the SP allows the superior to make this call. The confusion is that a “brother” is making this call for a priest; because people don’t realize that they are both equally brothers and that the one is the superior, even if he’s not ordained. The other owes him absolute obedience in all things but sin.

Things like this need to be clarified again. Tent addressed them, but they get forgotten. Trent addressed so much, who can remember it all?

This happened between Vatican I and Vatican II. That’s how we got novitiates that were overflowing. Many people look back and morn the absence of those huge novitiates. The truth is that the focus shifted from religious life to the priesthood. If you wanted to be a priest, you picked a diocese or a religious community, entered, made vows and were later ordained. You lived and worked as a priest.

What happened? The communities lost their identity. Franciscans were running huge parishes and Catholic schools. Dominicans were running parishes instead of going on preaching tours. Carmelites were running parishes, schools and other institutions, instead of spending time in solitude and prayer. Salesians practically abandoned their schools to take their place in parishes. You see the chaos?

Vatican II tried to correct this issuing Perfectae Caritatis. But that was only a beginning. More had to be said and was not said. What happened? Some people went over the top with reform. Instead of recovering the identity of their religious community, they lost their identity as Catholics and became generic Christian social workers.

If this document addresses the vocation pool, which I believe it should, then it will force the bishops and the Pontifical Council on the Family to do more intense work with families. You can’t pull vocations for religious orders of men and for the dioceses out of the same poor when the pool is now a puddle. We no longer have large families and we have fewer and fewer families who promote consecrated life or priesthood. The promote wealth, power and pleasure.

I have no idea what this document will say. As the superior of a community that is in its infancy and that is very traditional, I’m hoping that this will affirm what we already believe. We founded our community on the belief that the Gospel can be lived as St. Francis lived it and we can also proclaim the Gospel of Life without conflict. We don’t have to become militant anti-abortion protestors to preach the Gospel of life. On the contrary, the more we do it like Francis, with kindness, patience, understanding of the human condition, and the more we proclaim that Christ is Life itself and calls out to life and that he never abandons us, especially when we’re desperate, confused and alone, this is a much better way to proclaim the sanctity of life. Francis proclaimed the sanctity of life without ever getting into conflicts. There were many possibilities, especially with monarchs.

I wouldn’t point the finger at Trads. There are many visions of what a purer church is and it does not all come from the Trads. The feminists have their vision as well. I do agree, that a purer Church is one where God’s plan for us is clear.

Wait, does that mean that the Dominicans who pastor the university parish I used to go to in undergrad will leave? Or that the Franciscans will withdraw from working at Steubenville?

 

[JReducation]

Wait, does that mean that the Dominicans who pastor the university parish I used to go to in undergrad will leave? Or that the Franciscans will withdraw from working at Steubenville?

I have no idea what the Dominicans will do; but no one has any idea until the document is out. We don’t know when it will come out. We can’t jump to conclusions.

As for the Franciscans in Franciscan University, no the friars will remain. University education is part of our Franciscan tradition. It began with St. Francis of Assisi. He authorized it himself in a letter to St. Anthony of Padua. We have always worked in great universities and done a lot of scholarly work. Parishes and parish schools are not part of our tradition.

But that’s already in progress. The new communities are not taking on parishes. The older Franciscan communities are shifting to parishes that cannot afford to hire anyone, because they’re too poor.

I don’t know what that Dominican parish that you know is like. The Dominicans here run a parish that is very very poor. It is materially poor and spiritually poor. It’s right up their alley. They do a lot of preaching, not just at mass. They have all kinds of groups, classes and conferences going all the time at that parish. It’s open to all people. It’s very Dominican.

Will the Holy Father ask us to make some changes? I think he will. I think that he will be asking us to do what he does, to look at our founders and then look at our work and the people we serve. Then we have to ask the important question. Is this what our founder wanted? Is this what the Holy Spirit revealed to the founder and what the Church approved?

The key is to begin with the founder. Laity, bishops and religious will have to sit and ask, “What did St. Francis want?” From there, the answers will flow.

This was actually done in a parish run by Capuchin Franciscans. The laity, bishop and friars sat to reflect on this. They arrived at the conclusion that St. Francis would not want the friars living in that parish, because it was middle class. The bishop and laity were sad to see the friars leave and the friars were sad to leave. But everyone knew that this was the will of God that the parish be merged so that the friars could leave and comply with the will of St. Francis. I admire them very much. That kind of sacrifice requires love and courage or should I say, courageous love?

 

[MonkMoses]

Common’ folks, don’t make me feel badly about posting the article. I thought it was a good thing that religious (as in consecrated life) tradition is going to be looked at again and I also thought that people would be overjoyed at the fact that the Holy Father himself is concerned about the low number of religious brothers, which are in danger of going extinct. There is a greater danger there than there is of priests going extinct. And as Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict have said, the brothers are essential to the life of the Church. Without them, the Church is less Catholic. They’re looking at the greatest brothers of all, St. Benedict. Most people don’t know that he was a religious brother, not a priest. Then there is St. Francis of Assisi, another religious brother. Brother Lawrence was a religious brother who made great contribution to Christian Spirituality.

Then we have the great contributions by brothers such as the De La Salle schools, Xaverian schools, Marist schools, Alexian hospital systems, Brothers of St. John of God and their great hospitals, Good Shepherd homes for the elderly, the many Franciscan brother preachers who evangelized the mission fields and much of Europe during the Middle Ages, the monastic brothers who gave us the Bible and other works of faith, the early monastic brothers who gave us Gregorian chant and many other communities of brothers and individual brothers.

I thought this would cause some excitement that an old and venerable way of life that has played such a vital role in Catholic tradition is being looked at and that the Holy Father is trying to rescue it from dying out. I never expected people to be alarmed. Otherwise, I would not have posted it. I hate alarmists and I hate alarming.

Br JR as another religious I find this article to be very encouraging!