Pope Pius IX

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So one of the things I do, sometimes to make myself feel better, is look up random Vatican conspiracies. Most of them are laughable, like Pope Pius XII and the alien threat, or Jack Chick’s supercomputer, or Jesuits starting communism, or insert your conspiracy here. Honestly, it never occurred to me until about thirteen minutes ago that people actually believe this stuff.

I was reading through one conspiracy that I would, if possible, like help with. It’s a conspiracy predominately highjacked by fundamentalists, and I find their claims suspect. But the claim, is, that Pope Pius IX sanctioned the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. One of the sites is

reformation.org/lincoln.html

The website smacks of protestant paranoia, but it stands that I’ve read and enjoyed several of Pope Pius IX’s Encyclicals and would like to be equipped to settle the matter, should it arise.
 
This isn’t a joke, but that story is very realistic and factual overall (maybe not every detail). One MAJOR CLARIFICATION is that no assassination was ever called for by Rome (and it would be impossible to prove anyway), but that Rome saw the Confederacy as legitimate is true history and very significant. Such a move would give Catholics the impression that the Confederacy should be either directly supported or indirectly (e.g. by not fighting them if you were a Catholic living in the North).

The real question to ask though is whether the Union was right or not - and that’s the million dollar question still debated - and the South to this day will say "No " and that Lincoln was one of the worst presidents in history. So this isn’t just a “Catholic thing,” but one in which many well informed American historians will argue that Lincoln ruined the Constitution and Republic far worse than anyone in the White House today could dream of.

youtube.com/watch?v=4CwkG2C5sAc

youtube.com/watch?v=jEDz9pUDx4Y
 
The History Channel has a show on Lincoln’s assassination and, acconding to the show, when the people in the South heard about Lincoln’s death they were saddened becaouse they cosidered the alternatives to Lincoln were worse then Lincoln was. 🤷
 
I think it’s interesting that Lincoln’s friend, Charles Chiniquy, refers to the “infallible and holy Pope of Rome.”

He didn’t need Vatican I (which had not yet taken place) to know that the Pope is infallible.

Of course, he then goes on to describe the Catholic Faithful as the Pope’s “blind slaves.”

alas.
 
John_Carlton said:
So one of the things I do, sometimes to make myself feel better, is look up random Vatican conspiracies. Most of them are laughable, like Pope Pius XII and the alien threat, or Jack Chick’s supercomputer, or Jesuits starting communism, or insert your conspiracy here. Honestly, it never occurred to me until about thirteen minutes ago that people actually believe this stuff.

I was reading through one conspiracy that I would, if possible, like help with. It’s a conspiracy predominately highjacked by fundamentalists, and I find their claims suspect. But the claim, is, that Pope Pius IX sanctioned the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. One of the sites is

reformation.org/lincoln.html

The website smacks of protestant paranoia, but it stands that I’ve read and enjoyed several of Pope Pius IX’s Encyclicals and would like to be equipped to settle the matter, should it arise.
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Hello John Carlton!

As you can probably tell by my username, I have a large admiration of Pope Pius IX. Some time ago, I got two beautiful paintings of Pius IX, one hangs on my dining room wall while the other hangs on the wall of my bedroom. Pius IX has done so many great things (spiritually and temporally) for Holy Mother Church, that it it baffles me that he isn’t a saint.

Back to the topic at hand, reformation.org is a very nutty site. It is one of those “the Jesuits are controlling America” sites. Its one of those sites that, when I go on it, I’m worried that my computer caught some virus. I think this is also the site that says that Pius IX set up an “Order” of women called “God’s beautiful creatures” that were set up to serve the sexual needs of Priests. Their credibility just self-destructed.

Pius IX did not sanction the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, and in correspondence with the Northern President, His Holiness showed nothing but the utmost respect. It is true, that the Papal States recognized His Excellency, President Jefferson Davis of the Confederacy. It is also true that His Holiness sent a crown of thorns, crafted by the Holy Father’s own hands to President Jefferson Davis. It is ALSO true that the Jesuits gave safe passage to John Surratt from Halifax to London, and then to Rome where the conspirator served as a Pontifical soldier.

However, at this time, the CSA and the Papal States had plenty in common. Both were in wars that were lost causes - The Civil War and the Risorgimento respectively. Did Pius IX order the assassination of Lincoln? Absolutely not. The Holy Father had way too much on his plate to do that.

I am an American who does somewhat sympathize with the South. In fact, I have a confederate flag in my bedroom next to an American Flag. Both represent my country. Do I hate Abraham Lincoln? No, I’m not a big fan, but he united the country (even if it meant a huge death toll and the lack of recognition of the act of secession and states rights).

I hope I helped in any way I could.👍
 
Bl_Pope_Pius_IX said:
It is ALSO true that the Jesuits gave safe passage to John Surratt from Halifax to London.
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Which is true, but pretty much irrelevant to the assassination, because Surratt was not involved. John Surratt was a Confederate spy, and had conspired in a failed scheme to kidnap Lincoln (to obtain the release of Confederate soldiers), but he was in Elmira, NY (280 miles away) when Lincoln was assassinated - he could not have been the “timekeeper” as is alleged.

Surratt was in Elmira on orders from Gen. Robert Lee himself, acting as a spy to obtain intel about a prison (holding Confederate POWs) in order to plan a prison break. He arrived there two days before the assassination, registering at Brainard House under the name “John Harrison” (Harrison was his middle name). The prosecution’s evidence consisted of the testimony of one Union soldier (who had seen him at night), while several witnesses (of high regard, who had seen him in broad daylight) testified that Surratt was in Elvira (and physical evidence surfaced after the trial that proved this beyond doubt).

This was one of the main reasons the jury did not convict him at trial (and he was the only member of the Booth gang that was not convicted).
 
DavidFilmer said:
Which is true, but pretty much irrelevant to the assassination, because Surratt was not involved. John Surratt was a Confederate spy, and had conspired in a failed scheme to kidnap Lincoln (to obtain the release of Confederate soldiers), but he was in Elmira, NY (280 miles away) when Lincoln was assassinated - he could not have been the “timekeeper” as is alleged.

Surratt was in Elmira on orders from Gen. Robert Lee himself, acting as a spy to obtain intel about a prison (holding Confederate POWs) in order to plan a prison break. He arrived there two days before the assassination, registering at Brainard House under the name “John Harrison” (Harrison was his middle name). The prosecution’s evidence consisted of the testimony of one Union soldier (who had seen him at night), while several witnesses (of high regard, who had seen him in broad daylight) testified that Surratt was in Elvira (and physical evidence surfaced after the trial that proved this beyond doubt).

This was one of the main reasons the jury did not convict him at trial (and he was the only member of the Booth gang that was not convicted).
Click to expand...
I understand that Surratt had nothing to do with the assassination, however it was a bad political move. With such slander such as the infamous Bishop’s amphibious assault: harpweek.com/Images/SourceImages/CartoonOfTheDay/May/050875l.jpg

It simply wasn’t prudent to give shelter to him. If they were so ardent in giving sanctuary to Surratt, then I think they shouldn’t have given him up after he was found in service of the Papal Armies in Rome.
 
Thanks all for the responses. I honestly didn’t know this was such a sticky situation. I knew that the CSA had had ties with the Church, but I also learned that from the History Channel, and to be honest with you, I don’t always know when to take them seriously in that they’ve promulgated some pretty goofy ideas and seem to have lost track of what constitutes history.

Like I said, I’ve read some of Pope Pius’ encyclicals and I found them to be beneficial, so I wanted to make sure that these people didn’t have any real ground to stand on. And I’ll do some more research with some of the links and whatnot provided.

God bless,
 
HI
I note your devotion to Pope Pius IX, so I am guess you know all about him…do you have and detailed information about his reported cure by the intercession of Saint Philomena?
Thanks
James
merk13@yahoo.com
 
Pope Pius IX
HI
I note your devotion to Pope Pius IX, so I am guess you know all about him…do you have and detailed information about his reported cure by the intercession of Saint Philomena?
Thanks
James
merk13@yahoo.com
 
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