Pope reaffirms ban on women priests

[Tigg]

Seems to me to that he is saying this. This is paragraph 104 of the Apostolic Exhortation “The Joy of the Gospel”.

Thank you for this - I had not fully read the entire document.

 

[AamahJones]

This isn’t a rule. It is a doctrine. As such, it is unchangeable by the Church. The Church has “received” its doctrines from Jesus Christ, Son of God, and does not claim the right to correct Him.

Those “rules” to which you refer that can be changed are referred to in the Church as matters of discipline. They can be changed. An example of this is the celibate priesthood. That’s not a doctrine. It is a discipline, and if the Church ever felt it was necessary to change it, then it could be changed.

It is a doctrine devised by men centuries ago at a time when pitifully few woman received any kind of educaton. One wouldn’t expect the uneducated to become priests. Then of course, there is, and always be the issue that women have been considered inferior in the eyes of the hierarchy of the church, the ultimate boys club.

 

[Suudy]

It is a doctrine devised by men centuries ago at a time when pitifully few woman received any kind of educaton.

Yet despite this, there were priestesses of other religions and cults. The concept of a priestess wasn’t foreign to the ancients.

One wouldn’t expect the uneducated to become priests.

Huh. Yet despite your assertion that “pitifully few women received any kind of education,” there were large cults run solely by women priestesses.

Then of course, there is, and always be the issue that women have been considered inferior in the eyes of the hierarchy of the church, the ultimate boys club.

Says whom? When has the Church taught that women were inferior? Indeed, the most revered of all is Mary–a woman!

 

[Lochias]

It is a doctrine devised by men centuries ago at a time when pitifully few woman received any kind of educaton.

Darn that Jesus, who saw fit to create the model for priesthood that did not include women.

Then of course, there is, and always be the issue that women have been considered inferior in the eyes of the hierarchy of the church, the ultimate boys club.

This is perhaps one of the most uneducated things I’ve ever heard on this forum. It is demeaning to our Mother Mary, demeaning to all of the hardworking women who are recognized and loved by the Church, and demeaning to the Church women in my life who have taught me, lifted me up, and otherwise been an integral part of the Church AND my life.

Charity prevents from saying just what I’d like to say, but rest assured that I am… unimpressed with your posting record so far. Quite unimpressed, indeed.

 

[Ender]

It is a doctrine devised by men…

If doctrines are devised by men then it is foolish to adhere to them … or to any church that promulgates them.“The knowledge which the Church offers to man has its origin not in any speculation of her own, however sublime, but in the word of God which she has received in faith.” (Fides et Ratio #7)
If you accept this assertion then it makes no sense to dispute the doctrine that women cannot be priests. If you reject the assertion then it makes no sense to be Catholic.

Ender

 

[Suudy]

If doctrines are devised by men then it is foolish to adhere to them … or to any church that promulgates them.

Of course, the response would be “If doctrines are devised by men then it is foolish to defend them … or to defend any church that promulgates them.”

(Not saying I agree. Just pointing out what the counterargument is.)

 

[Ender]

Of course, the response would be “If doctrines are devised by men then it is foolish to defend them … or to defend any church that promulgates them.”

I’m sorry, I don’t understand the point here. This doesn’t seem in any essential way different than what I said. I don’t see this as a rebuttal of my comment but a paraphrase of it.

If morality is nothing more than what some individuals claim it to be then for all intents and purposes morality itself does not exist, and no organization can claim to be more moral than any other. The Catholic church would have no better claim to moral superiority than the KKK.

Ender

 

[Suudy]

I’m sorry, I don’t understand the point here. This doesn’t seem in any essential way different than what I said. I don’t see this as a rebuttal of my comment but a paraphrase of it.

You are correct, it isn’t a rebuttal. It is a paraphrase. But from a different point of view. However, I suspect those that support women’s ordination fail to recognize that their argument bites both ways.

Ultimately my point is that relativism (i.e. right/wrong, correct/incorrect is a man-made thing) leads to an absurd position that all things are meaningless.

If morality is nothing more than what some individuals claim it to be then for all intents and purposes morality itself does not exist, and no organization can claim to be more moral than any other. The Catholic church would have no better claim to moral superiority than the KKK.

I agree 100%. But I think that those who make such a statement would reject your formulation (“it is foolish to adhere”), while accepting the alternate formulation (“it is fooling to defend”). Of course they adhere to man-made institutions (USSC rulings, gay marriage, etc), thus believe it is quite acceptable to adhere to such institutions.

 

[Ender]

Ultimately my point is that relativism (i.e. right/wrong, correct/incorrect is a man-made thing) leads to an absurd position that all things are meaningless.

Ah, yes. If church doctrines are nothing more than what the latest group of Vatican occupants say they are then changing doctrines would be like changing laws: just vote for the other guys. That may be a good approach to making positive law but it is a nonsensical approach for moral law. That said, it doesn’t seem to deter people from taking that position.

Ender