Pope requests TLM in every parish?

[JRKH]

That may be true in your area but not mine. Locally there are parishes that have an interest and now offer th EF at least once a month and others that don’t and have no plans to do so.

I’m happy to hear this.
This is as it should be.

Of course things may change in the future. (Things often do)
People move around so the complexion of a parish may change.
People grow and change spiritually and may discern or desire different forms of spirituality.
A parish that now offers the EF may find inerest falling off, while one that doesn’t offer the EF finds itself with a “stable group” asking for the EF.

This is why I believe that the Holy Father is correct in encouraging seminaries to be sure that their graduates are fully trained in both forms, and that they make provision to train any existing priests who wish to learn the TLM.

In this way it can eventually be said that most parishes “offer” the EF because the priest is capable of performing it.

Doesn’t this make sense?

Honestly, I wish no confrontation over this.
I enjoy and accept both forms.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

It is a reversal to go from making it available as described to forcing it on all parishes. It is just barely a year since the MP was issued so what could be the reason for such a possible reversal?

May I ask where this idea of “forcing” is coming from?

Even if it WERE mandated, would this somehow prevent you from worshiping as you wish in the OF?

But I know of no “Forcing” coming from the Holy Father.

I wish no confrontation here, just to understand

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Dauphin, Eilish, Me and any others,

Let’s not start another endless argument over this. I asked a simple question about an article I had heard about. That question has basically been answered now.
As to issues of when, whether, how, why or in what form, the EF should or should not be implemented in every parish, there are probably dozens of threads hashing these things out.

Let us be Christian about this.
Has the Holy Father mandated this? No he has not.
Is the Holy Father encouraging this? Yes He is.

He is most especially encouraging the seminaries and seminarians to become fully equipped to perform BOTH forms of mass.
This is as it should be, for our priests should indeed be well trained and proficient in all aspects of their vocation.

I honestly am at a loss to understand why either OF or EF proponents should be so derisive of the other. It helps no one. It only hurts our Lord and His bride, the Church. It strips from us a most precious gift - Our Christian Love toward each other.

Let us Guard our Souls - Be reconciled to each other - and obedient to the Church.

Peace
James

 

[Eilish_Maura]

May I ask where this idea of “forcing” is coming from?

Even if it WERE mandated, would this somehow prevent you from worshiping as you wish in the OF?

But I know of no “Forcing” coming from the Holy Father.

I wish no confrontation here, just to understand

Peace
James

Requiring it in every parish would constitute forcing as opposed to what the pope set up in last year’s MP.

Like you, I know of no talk from the pope about going against what he set up last year.

 

[pnewton]

More official than Cardinal Castrillon? The man in charge of all matters concerning the EF?

I did not hear the Cardinal say this. Did you?

All we have is a reporters story. Not that reporters ever lie , but it is easy to imagine the story being somewhat twisted to mean quite the opposite of what was said. I have seen quotes use selectively to convey a quite different meaning than the truth by media reporters. Again, it is not the Cardinal I do not trust, but the reporter who printed this story.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I did not hear the Cardinal say this. Did you?

All we have is a reporters story. Not that reporters ever lie , but it is easy to imagine the story being somewhat twisted to mean quite the opposite of what was said. I have seen quotes use selectively to convey a quite different meaning than the truth by media reporters. Again, it is not the Cardinal I do not trust, but the reporter who printed this story.

Also some at the Vatican have misspoken before.

 

[JRKH]

Well I finally got a hold of the article from my mom.

It is bylined "London and appears to be a “rewrite” of the item posted earlier HERE.

The key phrases here would be these:

Pope Benedict XVI would like every Catholic parish in the world to celebrate a regular Tridentine-rite Mass, a Vatican cardinal has said.

And this one:

the Vatican was writing to all seminaries to ask that candidates to the priesthood are trained to celebrate Mass according to the extraordinary form of the Latin rite

So it is obvious that nothing is being forced, but rather the Holy Father is making his desires known.

Peace
James

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Well I finally got a hold of the article from my mom.

It is bylined "London and appears to be a “rewrite” of the item posted earlier HERE.

…

So it is obvious that nothing is being forced, but rather the Holy Father is making his desires known.

Peace
James

Some will tell you that these are actually orders.

Personally, I am waiting for something directly from the pope - before the MP was issued there was plenty of misinformation leaked out by people in the Vatican.

 

[JRKH]

Some will tell you that these are actually orders.

Personally, I am waiting for something directly from the pope - before the MP was issued there was plenty of misinformation leaked out by people in the Vatican.

I’m with you here.
I see all too often where people here will jump to conclusions and try to read more into things than is actually there.
Of course I’ve also seen people resist even clearly stated directives.

For now, it seems obvious that the Holy Father is hoping for a growing acceptance of the EF across the Church. In addition the Vatican is actively seeking to assure that the priesthood is properly trained. This is certainly an acceptable and prudent course to take.

We can all help this by being tolerant of each other, and accepting, indeed embrasing, BOTH forms of the mass.

Let us do so in Loving Thanks to God for His Gift of the Eucharist.

Peace
James

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I’m convinced that there is nothing of greater importance to the life of the Church and of the world than the common use of the Traditional Latin Mass. This magnificent liturgy will transform and enrich the faith of millions with its humble, beautiful prayers and its extraordinary focus on the glory and mystery of the Eucharistic sacrifice.

Save the liturgy, save the world.

While this may be true for you, it may not be the case for everyone. Many will not attend for whatever reason, and if this Mass is introduced at their regularly scheduled NO Mass time, they will consider it a good reason to miss Mass.

And I understand our local seminary has no new candidates for the priesthood next year, so not much hope of capable celebrants.

Hopefully, a good plan can be orchestrated to expose the faithful to the TLM, and determine need and/or interest before pressuring overworked priests to add something to their schedule, that may not be any benefit to the congregation.

As with the revokation of the indult to allow EMHC to purify vessels, it is fine for Rome, where there are so many priests, but difficult to impliment where there are so few priests. There are many places where the faithful do not get any Mass every week. I’m sure these bishops will not attempt to schedule a TLM.

Lux

 

[THurifer2]

While this may be true for you, it may not be the case for everyone. Many will not attend for whatever reason, and if this Mass is introduced at their regularly scheduled NO Mass time, they will consider it a good reason to miss Mass.

which is a mortal sin

And I understand our local seminary has no new candidates for the priesthood next year, so not much hope of capable celebrants

. Your “local” church needs to find out fast what it is doing wrong. Lincoln, NE has a HUGE number of 1st year seminarians and it is a relatively small diocese.

 

[Brendan]

which is a mortal sin
. Your “local” church needs to find out fast what it is doing wrong. Lincoln, NE has a HUGE number of 1st year seminarians and it is a relatively small diocese.

No kidding. Our parish alone has 5 in the seminary. One other was just Ordained in May, and there have been 5 others Ordained from our parish in the last 10 years.

Then again, our parish has had a Latin OF Mass for years, and added a TLM in Feb.

BTW, the newly Ordained priest from our parish, he came back a few weeks ago to say our parish TLM. He spend a few days in Chicago at St. John Cantius learning the rubrics.

The parish he is assigned to does not have the TLM, but he is aware that the faithful have a right to ask for this Mass and desires to be prepared to cover all the spritual needs of his parish.

 

[JRKH]

which is a mortal sin

. Your “local” church needs to find out fast what it is doing wrong. Lincoln, NE has a HUGE number of 1st year seminarians and it is a relatively small diocese.

I started to respond to lux but you and brendon have already done such a fine job there is little to add.

I would suggest that, since we don’t know where Lux is from, we can’t be totally cognizant of his situation.

Peace
James

 

[Simplex_Vir]

The MP was not about calling for the EF in all parishes - so any call now puts the original explanation for the MP in a shaky position.

IF any bishops are ignoring the MP then processes were built in for dealing with that.

If there is a “need” to alter the MP after barely a year how confident can we be about future documents?

Interesting that you would call into question documents such as the MP. I guess this must be the reason why the Holy Father must be even more direct than in the MP because some of the faithful interpret in the most watered down sense possible. This is by design of course because those who tend to gain from a more luke warm faith know that a return to tradition will turn the heat up on them.

I for one am very tired of hearing a clear and concise statement from the Holy See only to hear the likes of the USCCB try to water it down so as not to offend/upset the laity. PLEASE.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

which is a mortal sin.

I am just saying what may happen, not that I agree or that it is not a sin.

Your “local” church needs to find out fast what it is doing wrong. Lincoln, NE has a HUGE number of 1st year seminarians and it is a relatively small diocese

Again I am just mentioning the situation. And whatever we are doing wrong, thank God we are more charitable than those who think they “got it right”

Lux

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Interesting that you would call into question documents such as the MP. I guess this must be the reason why the Holy Father must be even more direct than in the MP because some of the faithful interpret in the most watered down sense possible. This is by design of course because those who tend to gain from a more luke warm faith know that a return to tradition will turn the heat up on them.

I do not see where you get “draw into question” from my post.

I also do not see how taking the pope at his word, avoiding adding to his specific descriptions with a “What he really means by this is…” is NOT watering it down.

 

[Simplex_Vir]

I do not see where you get “draw into question” from my post.

I also do not see how taking the pope at his word, avoiding adding to his specific descriptions with a “What he really means by this is…” is NOT watering it down.

You are being obtuse, I think for the sake of arguing really. But your own comment:

“If there is a “need” to alter the MP after barely a year how confident can we be about future documents?”

Calls into question the MP and future documents.

Maybe from the article this thread was about that the good Cardinal believes that every parish has a small group that wish for the EF. That would be consistant to what I see here where I live.

I am certain that there must be concern that the faithful who desire it will not be heard and serviced as so directed.

I believe that such is the case because many a Priest can be even more frustratingly obtuse than you are being here!

 

[Eilish_Maura]

You are being obtuse, I think for the sake of arguing really. But your own comment:

“If there is a “need” to alter the MP after barely a year how confident can we be about future documents?”

Calls into question the MP and future documents.

Thank you for the clarification that you based it on a different post and not the one you quoted.

Maybe from the article this thread was about that the good Cardinal believes that every parish has a small group that wish for the EF. That would be consistant to what I see here where I live.

I am certain that there must be concern that the faithful who desire it will not be heard and serviced as so directed.

It is nice to see acknowledgement that the article could be far more what the Cardinal believes rather than the pope. BTW - there should be no concern about those who desire the EF not being heard as the pope dealt with that possibility in last year’s MP.

 

[JRKH]

I am just saying what may happen, not that I agree or that it is not a sin.

Again I am just mentioning the situation. And whatever we are doing wrong, thank God we are more charitable than those who think they “got it right”

Lux

While it is true that what you mention “May Happen”, iit even more true that people will stop going to church because they are too lazy to get out of bed on Sunday morning.

In all honesty I see the following as being the most likely scenerio as the EF becomes more widely used.

Say there are 3 masses on Sunday Morning, 8, 10 and 12, Plus a Saturday afternoon mass. (This is the case where I am) One of these masses masses, say the 8 am is switched to the EF. The people will make one of three choices.

1. Some will make a point of attending this mass because they really like the EF.
2. Some will avoid this mass because they really don’t like the EF.
3. Some will attend whatever mass is at 8 am because that it the time they prefer to go to mass and as long as the mass if valid and communion is distributed they are content.

Some time ago I had posted a poll on this forum about the interest in the TLM. It is HERE. I posted it deliberately in the Liturgy forum instead of the Traditional forum so as not to weight the scoring. It seemed to indicate that there is, at least a firm interest in the EF.

Perhaps I should start a poll here along the lines of the choices above. Just as an excersize to see how people here would react to an EF in their parish.

Peace
James

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi James,

A poll in a CAF forum really wouldn’t be an accurate representation of most Catholics. I doubt many of those who would strongly object to the TLM would post in any of these forums, and I bet I could safely say that none who would consider the change a good reason to miss Mass would post here.

I hope that a good survey will be taken at the Parish Masses, before any schedule revisions are done, and I do sincerely hope that there will be a TLM available to all who prefer the traditional form.

Lux