Pope revises catechism to say death penalty is 'inadmissible'

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Yes, that is sadly, inevitable. This might seem like a positive, innocent change to some, but it will have rippling effects on other Church teaching that touches hot-button social issues such as contraception and gay marriage. Fr. James Martin is probably already thinking of ways to spin this change into more acceptance of LGBT people. The German bishops will probably find a way to use this, as they did with Amoris Laetitia, to allow more Protestants to receive communion. It would have helped if the theological arguments presented alongside this change were stronger. They seem like very general arguments and ignore a lot of Church documents and teaching that contradict it (see Pius XII’s teachings on the death penalty which may be the most exhaustive writing on the subject). Similar to how AL ignored St. John Paul II’s writings on communion for the divorced and remarried in its text.

I think this change should not have been called a “development in doctrine”, but rather as a simple change in tactics, or policy. Say that the DP should not be used by today’s society because of errors that have been made in the past, or that it is better to ban it altogether rather than risk the unjust execution of an innocent person. I could accept the change for that reason. Calling it a development of doctrine casts suspicion upon the true intentions behind this change (and fears about what other doctrine might “develop” in the future), and such a theological reasoning would likely be defeated with the overwhelming evidence from past Church teachings that have declared the death penalty just in certain circumstances.
 
2 thoughts come to mind from a quick review of this thread:
  1. It seems that people think the historical Church’s acceptance if the death penalty is part of the extraordinary magisterium. It’s not.the church can certainly change (develope) it’s teaching on the death penalty.
  2. the argument that this is being done from a purely Western perspective is laughable. Do people really think the death penalty can be fairly applied in third world corrupt nation’s? Yea, the Pope has to be wrong: the death penalty is needed in Saudi Arabia or North Korea. Really? I hope I have misunderstood some of the responses.
 
I never said that each application would always be just, merely that when applied to one who is really guilty, it would fit within the framework of what the Church has considered to be a legitimate application of the death penalty.
 
LittleFlower said:
The argument for the death penalty happening right now, is similar to the arguments that people make for abortion .

“ There might be some instances where we would need to kill a grown person / baby .”

No, there aren’t.
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Baby: removing a fallopian tube to end an ectopic pregnancy knowing it saves the mother from death

Grown Person: self-defense. I used to hear people say if it were a tiny island nation and the prison was a hut the murderer kept escaping to murder some more, killing him might be considered

For the record I am against both abortion and the death penalty. Could labelling them as such be the problem? In the ectopic pregnancy it is not an abortion, it is some type of -ectomy and not a direct attack upon the child. Perhaps in the hut scenario the killing isnt a penalty for the crime so much as societal self defense. If our prisons are solid we don’t penalize anyone with death, we give them every chance to repent in prison?
 
Regarding #2, there is a difference between being against the death penalty in a specific country because you think the government is corrupt there and would not use it right, vs being against it because you think that by its nature it is wrong.

One can come to the correct conclusion for a course of action for a country with flawed reasoning.
 
There have been times when I have had trouble accepting a Catholic teaching, but prayer always helped 🙂

If you had been planning to enter RCIA this fall, I would suggest that you still do so, since going to RCIA does not imply commitment to entering the Church.
 
I don’t know why some people are getting so upset with this decision…it’s not as if many…or probably most Catholics follow the teachings of the church anyway…one million abortion each year in the US…I’ll bet there’s more than one or two Catholics among them…and then there’s Catholics who support abortion rights…probably most Catholics practice contraception…many support SSM…gay rights…only some 24% of Catholics regularly attend mass…isn’t that a sin not to be at mass…the church has the authority to define Catholic teaching…if some don’t like it…bad luck…join the rest who disagree with different teachings of the church…I don’t agree with certain things but I don’t lose sleep over it…it’s not as if the church is changing the dogma of the Catholic church…
 
Yes people in prison are part of society. Their protection is not ensured as well as the people whose job it is to detain them.
 
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One Question/ Observation about this latest Pope Francis action:
  1. Is Capital Punishment now considered Intrinsically evil in all cases as is murder. Once again, the Popes lack of clarity in using the word “inadmissible” strikes me as a type of word-smithing allowing for the claim that this is a “development” of doctrine rather than a direct contradiction of it.
 
Society surely includes the prison guards and other prisoners hurt and killed by prisoners? Or is their human dignity somehow less?
 
I don’t think that he has gone that far, but my issue is more that many who claim to agree with him do. The CDF letter seems to situate his words within societal developments, which I think make complete sense supposing that these developments have occurred within specific societies, but they may not so easily apply in places where they have not.

Given the assumptions he is making about societies these days, I don’t think he is ultimately wrong. The logic is mostly valid (my one qualm being the basis of opposition to the DP being human dignity rather than mercy), but some of the premises might be off in application.
 
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Yep, I agree with what you have written—and your examples.🌷

It could be that the lingo is throwing people off, but after reading so many answers I doubt it.

The main issue seems to be the change of the CCC and how that could happen from going to only under very, very special circumstances to basically never.
 
Wesrock said:
I’m concerned not necessarily by volume of personal, emotional support for this revision, but by the lack of apologetical explanation and care for how this reconciles with past teaching.
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Exactly. The larger issue present here seems to be the harm that the wording of this statement causes to the Church’s claim to authority and infallibility.

It’s apparent contradiction to previous teaching sows seeds of doubt, as can already be seen in this thread. Hopefully more clarification will be on the way.
 
If the church has never said anything condemning something commonplace and has actually employed and approved the thing the how could it not be part of church teaching?

Regarding the clear western bias it is in regard to the idea prisons can’t protect people. As for the justice systems the Church seems to condemn them all as unjust since wrongful death sentences is one of the arguments employed against ever using the death penalty.
 
exnihilo said:
Society surely includes the prison guards and other prisoners hurt and killed by prisoners? Or is their human dignity somehow less?
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Certainly it does and certainly prison is a dangerous place. Nevertheless, prisons are effective tools for protecting society from harm. We must bear in mind that no human institution is perfect. There will be incidents of violence in prison themselves just as there are in society at large.
 
Peebo said:
it’s not as if the church is changing the dogma of the Catholic church…
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Well, that is the question, actually, or at least the questions are (1) whether this is an extraordinary teaching of the magisterium and a real development and (2) what apologetical line of defense we’re to take with this in defending this as not contradicting established doctrine/dogma.
 
Before retiring I worked in a forensics mental facility…some of the worst of the worst…I knew what I was getting into…as did all who worked there…I managed to keep my own dignity in some pretty adverse situations…and I managed to show dignity to those in our charge…even though we may have had to at times use force to retrain them…
 
Prisons seem only to mostly limit violence to guards and inmates. Some prisoners have ordered and arranged killings outside of prison.

Prisons are at best a tool for limiting harm. That is way different from eliminating it, as the death penalty alone does.
 
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