Pope selection and God's will

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

So then your question becomes this - how do you know God’s will in a discrete way that’s able to be tested? You don’t. Thought experiment over.

What testing is needed? As a Catholic don’t you believe everything is God’s will?

Based on your question, it appears you’re the one who lacks that belief. You yourself said that:

They [the wills of the Cardinals and the will of God] are mutually exclusive.

I’m telling you they’re not.

Did you forget which side of the ball you’re on?

 

[pnewton]

@Joe_5859 answered the question in post 6. There will be no better answer, though “both/and” is a simplified version. Our faith in the process should depend on our level of skepticism, at least today. If we think the Catholic hierarchy is opposed to God, while only a few of our favorite Cardinals are the real Church, then we will not trust the conclave.

 

[goout]

The beautiful thing about Christianity is that it is more. The kingdom of God is not a zero sum game where competitors compete for limited goods.
Two things that seem exclusive or contradictory can unify to work for good. Instead of either/or they become both/and.

Christ is both a divine person and fully human. Divinity and humanity are mutually exclusive to the world’s way of perceiving and thinking, but in Christ they unify, fulfill, and “multiply” the good. (quantitative terms don’t really work here)
Likewise, human beings are both free to choose, and at the same time God has eternal knowledge of the “outcome”.

Both/and

 

[PJM]

Does God will the selection of the Pope or is it left completely up to the free will actions of the Cardiinal

It is the Sacred Tradition of the RCC that Papal selection IS guided by the Holy Spirit.

What we DO NOT know is what is God’s Will? Yet in FAITH we believe that God remains ever-present and active in HIS RCC.

Easter Blessings,
Patrick

 

[goout]

Have you ever been in love?
Do you cooperate with and complete the will of your beloved? You’d better, or you won’t be “in love” very long. Two people throwing their mutually exclusive wills around is not a relationship, it’s a competition.

In doing the will of another, you become more free, not less.

 

[KevinK]

I’m telling you they’re not.

Profound reasoning.

 

[Vonsalza]

I’ve shown you the both/and relationship just like everyone else.

You can lead a horse to water…

 

[anna]

I believe that when the Conclave of Cardinals goes behind those locked doors to elect a successor to St. Peter our first Pope, it is with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and with the prayers of the faithful and the Cardinals themselves. They are trusted with the Light of the Holy Spirit, to bring about the new Bishop of Rome, the head of Holy Mother Church and Our Pope, who we will continually pray for. Whatever God has instilled cannot be undone although there are some who believe it can…In the end God’s will be done. God Bless all of us.

 

[dochawk]

The Holy Spirit guides them.

Whether the cardinals listen is another matter. Most of the time, they seem to.

But . . .

There wouldn’t be a conclave as we know it, or even the word “conclave”, if they were always receptive.

It comes from people of Rome getting upset when the cardinals hung around for over a year, living the good life in Rome instead of going back to their own sees, without electing a pope. Demanding their bishop, they quite literally locked them in-- “con clave” is “with key”–and only sent in bread, water, and wine until they elected the new Pope.

hawk

 

[Gab123]

I would think that every pope is chosen by God by the very fact of Him permitting it, and one could argue that even “bad” popes bring out some good for the Church. And we can’t forget What Paul said:

“Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.”-Romans 13:1

As Jesus said: “Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. ‘ So don’t be afraid“…“ Matt 10:29-31

 

[phil19034]

Does God will the selection of the Pope or is it left completely up to the free will actions of the Cardiinals?

It’s the free will of the Cardinals. However, the individual Cardinals should be praying to hear the Holy Spirit.

However, it is their free will choice.

 

[pnewton]

Did you read what Pope Benedict said above?

Seriously, if you think the will of the Cardinals and the will of God is mutually exclusive, that is such an outlandish claim I think you should explain. Can no one follow the will of God, or is it just Cardinals you think can’t follow God’s will? This post should not have a tone of an attack on the Conclave. That should be left for the Protestants and other anti-Catholics.