Pope "thanks to the charismatic movement

[system]

ROME, JUNE 10, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Profound friendship with Jesus Christ and a sure and strong sense of conversion are just two of the effects of the Holy Spirit, say charismatic renewal leaders.

The leaders of the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal recently shared with ZENIT their personal experience of Pentecost. The ICCRS, headquartered in Vatican City, provides service, communication and linkage to this ecclesial reality whose spirituality is followed by more than 100 million Catholics.

At the vigil of Pentecost in St. Peter’s Basilica, on May 29, John Paul II sent special greetings to the Rinnovamento nello Spirito Santo, an Italian branch of the expression of Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

The Pope said that “thanks to the charismatic movement, many Christians, men and women, youths and adults, have rediscovered Pentecost as a living and present reality in their daily life.”
What do you think of the Holy Father thanking the Charismatic Movement in the Church? :bounce:

 

[gtrenewed]

dear digital deacon i am new to this forum but not to the renewal and it seems to me that your anger in these forums is not righteous but of the flesh…walk in the spirit and you shall not commit the deeds of the flesh…those that are outside of the renewal cannot understand unless they are drawn so just present truth without incitement…have you heard of a remnant within the remnant? gifting is never understood by contemporaries but viewed after time…is this not what many saints who suffered terribly encountered, they were often rejected by many in the church…if we keep our eyes on Jesus and remember His love and His sacrfice and that we are called as Catholics, gifted by the Holy Spirit, to build up the church not tear it down, we can suffer the insults by those who simply do not understand…God Bless

 

[Karl_Keating]

One should be careful about reading too much into a papal compliment.

In 1964 Pope Paul VI spoke before the U.N. General Assembly, the first pope to do so. He thanked the U.N. for the good things it was doing.

Many liberals thought the Pope gave the U.N. carte blanche. Many conservatives were upset by his words. Each group read too much into what the Holy Father said.

The fact was that the U.N. indeed was doing some good things, and it also was doing some bad things. Paul VI thanked the U.N. for the former and didn’t mention the latter. He had certain reasons for accentuating the positive. It was a matter of diplomacy.

Something similar happens when popes talk about spiritual movements. They praise the good points and (usually) don’t mention the troublesome points. It may be natural for members of those movements to conclude that they have a papal endorsement, but they read too much into the situation.

Over the centuries popes have permitted many spiritual movements to operate for long periods of time before finally giving a definitive thumbs up or thumbs down. The charismatic movement has existed in the Catholic Church for only 37 years, a short time as the Church measures things. The absence of a final determination one way or the other tells us little at this point.

One thing that rarely is mentioned, either by friends or foes of the charismatic movement, is that not one of the popes who has reigned since the movement began ever has taken up the charismatic spirituality. Neither Paul VI nor John Paul I nor John Paul II has engaged in speaking in tongues, for example.

If it indeed is the case that this new movement is from God, why haven’t any of the Supreme Pastors been given the gifts that are said to be given to millions of lay people?

 

[darcee]

Karl Keating:

If it indeed is the case that this new movement is from God, why haven’t any of the Supreme Pastors been given the gifts that are said to be given to millions of lay people?

Maybe they have but this has not been shared… are you absolutely certain they have not?

-D

 

[Karl_Keating]

darcee:

Maybe they have but this has not been shared… are you absolutely certain they have not?

-D

It is permissible to draw inferences.

It’s a bit like the Pope’s attitude toward Medjugorje. Never once has he come out in favor of that private apparition. Even his actions imply something. When he visited the area a few years ago, he went to a Marian site that almost no one in the U.S. had heard of, but he avoided Medjugorje, which was within driving distance. It was fair of observers to conclude that the Pope didn’t think much of the apparition.

Somewhat similarly with the charismatic movement. If these are authentic gifts, and if millions of people have been given them, and if a good portion of those folks display the gifts regularly, why wouldn’t a pope who had those gifts display them? And if John Paul II doesn’t have those gifts, why not?

 

[darcee]

Karl Keating:

It is permissible to draw inferences.
It’s a bit like the Pope’s attitude toward Medjugorje. Never once has he come out in favor of that private apparition. Even his actions imply something. When he visited the area a few years ago, he went to a Marian site that almost no one in the U.S. had heard of, but he avoided Medjugorje, which was within driving distance. It was fair of observers to conclude that the Pope didn’t think much of the apparition.

Somewhat similarly with the charismatic movement. If these are authentic gifts, and if millions of people have been given them, and if a good portion of those folks display the gifts regularly, why wouldn’t a pope who had those gifts display them? And if John Paul II doesn’t have those gifts, why not?

I think one should always be cautious when drawing inferences about anyone, especially the pope.

I could think of several reasons. He might not feel God wishes him to. To do so might cause huge upheaval in the general practice of the laity which the church is not ready for. The charismatic movement seems to be something very concentrated in the laity, perhaps this is not a gift the ordained regularly have. The fact that these three popes have not displayed these gifts does not mean they are not present or that they are not approved of by God. But the fact that it is not displayed doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

I chose to take the Pope’s words at face value. IF he condemns it there will be no questions it is beyond the scope of being Catholic, but the positive things that have been said by the Pope about this moment indicate that the Vatican at least to some degree supports it. I am not charismatic myself, but I know several devote, loyal Catholics who are, they also get upset of liturgical abuses and are not big on guitar. The moment is broad and there might be many bad apples, but there also might be much spiritual treasure there.

 

[misericordie]

Not every word the Pope says (i love this pope!) is infallible. People mix things up to make it seem that all the Pope says is pronounced, EX-CATHEDRA. Let’s not forget that the Pope also has opinions, which must not be confused as dogmatic.

 

[agname]

Karl is right on the money.

 

[snuffy]

Darcee

And Amen!!! I feel the same way…
Karl, have you never heard of Stuebenville University…And the many wonderful priests who teach there…which is a very excellent Charismatic University.

The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Holy Trinity…and should be understood more…And the only way that can be done is through teaching it.
I know many wonderful and Holy priests who are Charismatic.

And as far as Medjugorje is concerned …we will see by the fruits.
However I’ve been there twice and it along with the Charismatic Renewal has deepened my faith. And it has led me to conversion, which is a life long journey… I am hungry and I’m alive in Christ.
Please explain where the harm is in this.??

Thank You Jesus.
Snuffy

 

[TeAmo]

Darcee

And Amen!!! I feel the same way…
Karl, have you never heard of Stuebenville University…And the many wonderful priests who teach there…which is a very excellent Charismatic University.

The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Holy Trinity…and should be understood more…And the only way that can be done is through teaching it.
I know many wonderful and Holy priests who are Charismatic.

And as far as Medjugorje is concerned …we will see by the fruits.
However I’ve been there twice and it along with the Charismatic Renewal has deepened my faith. And it has led me to conversion, which is a life long journey… I am hungry and I’m alive in Christ.
Please explain where the harm is in this.??

Thank You Jesus.
Snuffy

Snuffy, not all or even a majority of students at Franciscan University are charismatic, although there are a good deal of students there who are. I know, I’m a student there. It is a wonderful university, no question. And I am not casting any doubt on the good will/intentions of the charismatic students/teachers/priests there. And yes, I also know wonderful priests who are charismatic. However, I will say that even good people can be misled.
Please don’t misunderstand, I am not absolutely condemning the charismatic movement. I think it has produced good fruits. However, I also agree with Karl that it needs to be examined more.

Incidently, I do disagree with Karl’s point about the popes not having it. That doesn’t necessarily say anything about the movement. Perhaps one day there WILL be a Pope who has the gift of tongues or interpretation or prophesy or so forth. Just because there isn’t now doesn’t mean anything. The Holy Spirit gives his gifts where He wills

 

[Yirmeyahu]

I think the Pope has the gift of prophecy. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be able to preach the truth in faith and morals.