Pope the anti-christ?

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mrS4ntA:
Like I said, with our infitesimal knowledge of life, universe, and everything, I guess it’s not our place to question God’s motives. He has it all in plan. It’s a sad reality for sin, but we have to live with it I guess.
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Why is it not our place? What harm could come of rationally questioning the world around us? At worst - and this is also a desirable situation in and of itself - we would learn more about our surroundings, ourselves, and others whom we live with and love.
 
If you want a response on the litghter side. I once had this put to me by a good friend whom I could talk with about anything. I looked at him and said maybe your right because when the Pope heads in this direction there must not be anyone on earth worth saving. He just looked at me and smiled.
 
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Cosmo:
Why is it not our place? What harm could come of rationally questioning the world around us? At worst - and this is also a desirable situation in and of itself - we would learn more about our surroundings, ourselves, and others whom we live with and love.
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i agree that it’s healthy to question our surrounding. But God, as an Infinite, we cannot grasp fully with our finite capabilities – otherwise He would be God! Even what we do know about Him was revealed to us. Nothing comes from our own reasoning…
 
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Cosmo:
I’m not quite certain where free will came into this, but I’ll not address that here.

If you had the power and the ability to eradicate Satan (and evil, as well) with a minimum of effort and no danger to yourself, wouldn’t you? Why has God not done this?

World War II comes to mind. America had the power and the ability to eliminate Hitler, yet it still took a few years (until Pearl Harbor) for the decision to invade to come about. How could you possibly justify America making any other decision about it? The same goes for God, I think.
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Hi Cosmo,
It is a great question and one that possibly can not be answered, but one we can meditate on. Who knows, maybe Jesus will bless you with an answer.
Here is a musing. I find the answer to all questions about God is “because He loves me.” Knowing the answer helps fill in the missing bits.
lets take satan away. Ok no more satan. What do you want now.
For the moment, here we are in the middle of no where, (the wilderness) without satan. How do we come to God. For only fire purifies. When is your heart, strength and soul really crying out with passion for our Lord. When we are in trouble. So we cease doing this now because now we have no more satan.Without satan hammering on our heels we as sheep will just wander off. How often did the Jews go through this cycle of obedience and then I’m ok God I dont need you now.It is folly to think we would react any differently than the Jews in the O/T.How many times were Adam and Eve tested before they fell. Now look at you. I would guess that you often( through the strength of the Holy Spirit) overcome temptation, something that Adam and Eve could not do because they had not been through the learning process that you and I are going through. Remember it was Adams will to learn from the tree of knowledge. We are the recipients of his desire for knowledge. We are in the wilderness now learning as Adam wanted. Satan is being used by God to strengthen and purify our love for God and during this process we are learning. Maybe you are just a little early, because shortly, satan will be locked up for 1000 years and we will see what will happen. I think your scenario is about to happen. Hold on to your hat.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
Well, I’m pretty sure Catholic Prophecy has it that the anti-Christ will be someone influential,which could in fact be the pope.
  • Joe
 
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edwinG:
Here is a musing. I find the answer to all questions about God is “because He loves me.” Knowing the answer helps fill in the missing bits.
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That’s some interesting logic.

Why has God not revealed himself to me? Because he loves me.

Why has God allowed pain and suffering in this world? Because he loves us.

Why has God allowed evil to thrive and grow? Because he loves us.
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edwinG:
When is your heart, strength and soul really crying out with passion for our Lord. When we are in trouble. So we cease doing this now because now we have no more satan.Without satan hammering on our heels we as sheep will just wander off.
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I can’t say I’m aware of having any such soul, nor have I cried out with passion for God - and believe me, I’ve been in trouble before - specifically, circumstances when you might just want to turn to God for an answer - yet I have not.
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edwinG:
I would guess that you often( through the strength of the Holy Spirit) overcome temptation, something that Adam and Eve could not do because they had not been through the learning process that you and I are going through.
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Yes, I have in the past overcome temptation. Who is this Holy Spirit of whom you speak, and what could he/she/it possibly have to do with my ability to overcome temptation?
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edwinG:
Maybe you are just a little early, because shortly, satan will be locked up for 1000 years and we will see what will happen. I think your scenario is about to happen. Hold on to your hat.
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You not only assume that Satan exists, but also that he will (somehow) be locked up for a millennium. How do you know he exists? Why do you want him to get locked up? Who told you he’s going to get locked up? How do you know his imprisonment will last for 1000 years?

What ‘scenario’ of mine is about to happen?
 
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Cosmo:
That’s some interesting logic.

Why has God not revealed himself to me? Because he loves me.

Why has God allowed pain and suffering in this world? Because he loves us.

Why has God allowed evil to thrive and grow? Because he loves us.

I can’t say I’m aware of having any such soul, nor have I cried out with passion for God - and believe me, I’ve been in trouble before - specifically, circumstances when you might just want to turn to God for an answer - yet I have not.

Yes, I have in the past overcome temptation. Who is this Holy Spirit of whom you speak, and what could he/she/it possibly have to do with my ability to overcome temptation?

You not only assume that Satan exists, but also that he will (somehow) be locked up for a millennium. How do you know he exists? Why do you want him to get locked up? Who told you he’s going to get locked up? How do you know his imprisonment will last for 1000 years?

What ‘scenario’ of mine is about to happen?
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Cosmo, you astound me.
Within 30 seconds of my post you had posted your answer, which is above. You must be the fastest typist on earth or been watching over my shoulder.
I recommend you read. Matthew 7:6
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
Walk in love
edwinG
 
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edwinG:
Cosmo, you astound me.
Within 30 seconds of my post you had posted your answer, which is above. You must be the fastest typist on earth or been watching over my shoulder.
I recommend you read. Matthew 7:6
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
Walk in love
edwinG
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You know, some of the main qualities of college students everywhere are

a) a large amount of free time, and
b) an amazing ability to procrastinate.

I believe I reflect these qualities with pride. 🙂
 
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Cosmo:
I believe I reflect these qualities with pride. 🙂
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You just answered all your own questions.

With an open mind, Read C.S.Lewis’s chapter on Pride in *Mere Christianity. *
 
Thanks to everybody for the suggestions. Sorry it took so long to get back to you but the last couple of days have been hectic.
I don’t feel the Pope would be the anti-christ since he points us to Christ, but he can still sin just like everybody else. I pray that God will give him and all our church leaders the strength to stay strong.
As for as the end times, I really don’t think about this to much. I remember when I was a little girl a man walking around with a sign saying the end times are near. I’m now in my 50’s. In the 80’s when the US had trouble with Lybia (I think) all the late night preachers on TV were predicting the end anywhere from 1989 to 1992 and of course we had the predictions about the year 2000. I don’t understand how they can keep predicting when the end will come since it says in the BIBLE no one knows the time. These are the same people who claim to believe in the bible only. :confused:
I feel sorry for my co-worker because I think her intentions are good but she has the wrong information. When I hear comments from her and others I just wish I was a gifted speaker so I could get my point across.
 
Malachi4U: I’ve read several of the Left Behind books, and while they are based on a theologically unsound premise, and Tim LaHaye is anti-Catholic, I would not go so far as to say that they are full of ‘hate for Catholics’. I do not see hate for Catholics in these books, nor hate for any particular people group. They may have many errors, but they are not written in a hateful way. Anti-Catholics may hate the Church, but they usually don’t hate individual Catholics.
 
Hi Ann!
Hmm… I read most of this thread, and so I hope somewhere in here nobody else has mentioned what I’m going to suggest.

First,
I have a thread for ya, initiated by yours truly: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=11836

Next: Baptists believe the Bible don’t they? I mean really, isn’t the Bible something we can all trust? Well here: 1 Corinthians 12:3 (NIV), “Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, ‘Jesus be cursed,’ and no one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit.” What does the Pope have to say about Jesus? Hmm… as I mentioned in the thread I’ve given you (see #37), the Pope’s position demands that “Jesus is Lord.” 🙂

It astounds me how simple a thing this is… yet why do so many Protestants unceasingly neglect it? I imagine that, if Jesus Christ Himself were on the Earth now, some “Christians” would try to say that Jesus Christ is “against Jesus Christ.” lol, And perhaps even, “up is down! Do not be fooled! Commen sense deceives you! Listen to me if you don’t wish to be left behind!!!”

:blessyou:
 
There are many anti Christs.

We are not speaking of a final one, but of many over the ages, including Nero, hitler etc…

Of course the pope could fall into this category if he were a bad pope and doing evil things as some in the past have done. But as for the final anti christ, no.
 
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ann:
Can the Pope be the anti-christ?
One of my Baptist co-workers was telling me her pastor said the end times are near, the signs are everywhere and the anti-christ could come from Rome and may even be the Pope. She also suggested I should watch the Left Behind series to give me something to think about (I have no plans to).
I know she is probably just trying to save my poor Catholic soul.
I just smiled and said I didn’t think it would be the Pope, to quit worrying about the end times and to live a good life and stay close to God. People have been talking about the end times forever, no one knows when the end time will be. She kinda of a nervous person who talks 100mph so its hard to get a word in. I wish I could have come up with a better answer. Any suggestions?
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Pray for her and do not develop a close friendship. She sounds too intense and fundamentalistic. Dishonest too. She has a tougher view of Catholics than she lets on.
 
The Barrister:
I call this game “Pin the tail on the Beast”.

Non-Catholic Christians have long fantasized that “the Pope” is the antichrist and that “Rome” is the “Whore of Babylon.”

No, the real antichrist will preach as the new Son of God and will downplay the role of Jesus in your salvation. The person you are looking for would be usurping the place of Christ, not upholding the worship and divinity of Christ as does our Pope.
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Quite an excellent post! Thank you!! 👍
 
Lets See??? I know this is a little off topic, but who cares…

Jesus comes and makes a final judgement.

Some are cast into hell and some are to remain as Jesus reigns for 1000 years.

So, If I am left behind, that is good, Right?

If during the rapture, your car becomes instantly empty, does that mean that you have been sent to hell, or heaven?

If anyone is interested in the RC view on the end of times, John Martignoni of the Bible Christian Society has a free (?) tape on his apologetic work on the rapture. It is pretty good. I think I like it cause he sounds like a southern baptist preacher. link is: www.biblechristiansociety.com.

John Paul II the anti christ??? Come on, I had heard it was a former president, or is it a future president? Guess that depends on how you vote.

I hope to die and be in heaven before any of this end times stuff takes place. Since that can happen any day, it’s best to be prepared.
Peace…
 
When the apostles questioned Jesus about the end of days, he repeated a vision from the book of daniel which had already been fulfilled but still had a future fulfillment. The Lord said ‘when you see the abomination of desolations standing in the holy place, know that the end is near’(my paraphrase). The first fulfillment was when Antiochus IV stood in the temple of Jerusalem and defiled the altar of holocausts by erecting a ‘horrible abomination’, Jewish worship was outlawed and idolatry was commanded to the inhabitants of the land. The lesson to be learned is that in the end the anti-christ will come from without and impose himself on the faithful. I believe that it will not be the pope but one who either usurps the popes authority and position, by imprisonment or some other means, or will claim himself to be pope. If this is not the case i’m not sure where the abomination of desolations will take place, St. Peter’s seems the obvious place (unless your a left behinder who thinks the temple in Jerusalem must be rebuit [of course they fail to realize, or admit that scripture states that Shilo was the place of worship before Jerusalem]). Go read the begining of Maccabees 1 for a little historical context to the abomination of desolations (left behinders might want to ask their Catholic friends to use their bibles!):yup:
 
The Pope the anti-christ?

Logically and from the prophecy there will only be one anti-christ that will bring the down fall of the church, But we’ve had 2000 years of the papacy and we’re still here.

The anti-christ is not the Pope. The anti-Christ are the people claiming to be the saviour, herald, pre-cursor and yet would be found wanting in their life and motives.
 
I just wanted to suggest a great book I read a while back called “The Rapture Trap” by Paul Thigpen. I’m embarrassed to say that I thought all christians believed in the rapture until I regularly started listening to “Open Line” on catholic radio. This book set me straight. IStay away from the Left Behind books. I have read two of them and they aren’t very good reading and they ARE bad theology. I have a very dear fundamentalist friend who is obsessed with the end times. I have noticed that when her life in general is going lousy, that she really seems to relish the thought of how bad it’s going to be for all those “left behind”. It’s sad, really. I just tell her that it doesn’t do us any good to dwell on what only the Lord can control and that we just need to be ready for his coming.

Pray for your co-worker and be kind. I wouldn’t argue theology because I don’t think you can get through to people that way. Just be Christ to her and show her that Catholics are christians, too.
 
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