Pope & the Ukraine vs. Russia

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Sorry, but I find this article to be a bit spun out of control.

The identification of Poland with the cause of Orange could do nothing but hurt the prospects of that party.

The people of Ukraine don’t want the foreign influence of either Poland or Russia in their homeland, and presenting this as a Warsaw vs Moscow fight will only embarass the Orange party and frighten potential supporters. It is (in effect), Ukraine’s nightmare.

Yes, the UGCC is concentrated in the west of Ukraine nearer to Poland, and yes they love His Holiness the Pope and seek his blessings in their endeavor. But this is in no way a pro-Polish vs pro-Russian contest, it is more like a pro-Ukraine vs pro-Russian contest. Tabloid journalism of this kind could actually harm the aspirations of the Yushchenko party as this article gets reprinted everywhere.

Michael

+T+
 
Some interesting comments from Radio Free Europe today:

As he looked out from the window of his Vatican study at the crowd below, the pontiff acknowledged the Ukrainians and although he didn’t mention the country’s postelection turmoil specifically, made it fairly clear which side the Holy See was on.

“My thoughts go to the Ukrainian pilgrims present in this square,” the pope said on 28 November. “I assure you of my prayer for peace in your country.”

It was the second time in four days that John Paul made a point of singling out Ukraine. On 24 November, he promised a group of Ukrainians, who were among thousands in the Vatican’s Paul VI auditorium for a papal audience, that he was “praying in a special way for your beloved homeland.”

Throughout the election campaign, the pro-Moscow branch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church also made its preference clear.

In demonstrations in Kyiv in November, the Union of Orthodox Brotherhoods of Ukraine warned of “the expansion of Catholics and sects in Ukraine” should the West-leaning Yushchenko win the presidency. Leaflets distributed in Orthodox parishes called Yushchenko a “partisan of the schismatics and an enemy of Orthodoxy,” according to media reports. And opposition leaders and human rights groups allege that some clergy in heavily Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine told parishioners to vote for “God’s candidate,” the pro-Moscow Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, or be denied the sacraments.

The standoff over Ukraine’s election has been characterized variously as a struggle for democracy, a Cold War-style showdown between Moscow and the West, and a cultural conflict between the country’s Russian and Ukrainian speakers. “Obviously, each religious community is trying to gain its own advantage from the result of this election.” - Corley

Although Yushchenko and Yanukovych are both Orthodox Christians, the “Orange Revolution” has also highlighted Ukraine’s enduring, centuries-old religious schisms that continue to play an important role in the multiconfessional nation of 48 million people.

This is true despite the fact that Ukraine’s churches are prohibited from campaigning for either candidate.

“Ukraine, of all the former Soviet republics, is the one that probably has the most religious splits,” Felix Corley, a specialist on religious issues in the former Soviet Union, told the BBC World Service. “The religious picture is very fractured [and] this is being reflected in the political arena as well,” Corley added…

But despite their small numbers, the Catholic denominations have provided bedrock support for the pro-Yushchenko opposition.

“The ecclesiastical authorities are not supposed to take a stand in this crisis,” the Reverend Oleksandr Hoursky, a Roman Catholic priest, told the “International Herald Tribune,” before proceeding to do exactly that.

“The church supports good against evil, the protection of human rights, and the end of any injustices, corruption, the state abuse of power,” Hoursky said. “Personally, I hope Yushchenko becomes president.”

Uniates are slightly less inhibited. On Kyiv’s Independence Square, young Uniate priests and nuns consistently drew warm cheers when they walked past orange-clad demonstrators, according to press reports.

“At the root of the crisis remains an immoral regime that has deprived Ukrainian people of their legitimate rights and dignity,” Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, the head of the Uniate Church, said on 6 December, a day before he met with Pope John Paul in the Vatican. Husar called the electoral standoff “the product of two clashing world visions as well as the selfish protection of personal interest on behalf of those who are currently in government.”

And those clashing world visions go back more than five centuries, reflecting the struggle for influence in Ukraine between Russia and the West.

The Uniate Church was established in 1596 when Metropolitan Mikhail Rohoza of Kyiv and other Orthodox bishops signed the Union of Brest, pledging allegiance to the Vatican but retaining Eastern rites and religious practices. The move was an attempt to move closer politically, religiously, and culturally to the Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth, which ruled the western part of Ukraine at the time. But not everybody in the Orthodox Church hierarchy agreed with the union with Rome, and some formed a rival church hierarchy, which by 1686 was formally under the authority of the Orthodox Church’s Moscow…"

rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/12/4ed21a9a-2e59-440b-b58b-f98c5f5a2d2f.html
 
Oh my!

There’s that expression again! O well. 😉

Ethnic Russians live all over Ukraine, but most especially in the east and in Crimea. Supposedly they constitute 30% of the population. Others identify themselves as ethnic Ukrainian but nevertheless speak Russian as a first language, again these people are mostly in the eastern areas.

The “Uniates” reside primarily toward the west of the country, this is the area that was never absorbed by Russia but succombed to the Soviet Union after WWII. They number something like 5.5MM out of a total population of around 50MM, so 10% to 12%. Also, their strident nationalism was cultivated under the dominance of western powers: Poland certainly, and also Austria-Hungary later. In other words they militantly preserved their own culture and Faith against western pressure, and sometimes looked to Russia for assistance! There have been numerous instances of Polish-Ukrainian civil violence even into recent years, hopefully that is a thing of the past. If you remember Catholic Eagle who used to post here, he exemplifies some of the attitude mutually expressed between the two groups.

The Eastern Catholics of Ukraine most certainly are Ukrainian nationalists, and after that nasty experience in the Soviet Union (post WWII) they most certainly have no love for Moscow. But as dedicated as they are, they truly are just a part of the nationalist movement struggling for control of Ukraine. The party must also cultivate support among the many Orthodox and unchurched Ukrainians in order to prevail, and it must be an overwhelming proportion of Ukrainians because the large number of Russians overwhelmingly favor Moscow.

Pope John Paul II is quite popular in Ukraine among Orthodox as well as Catholics. He is well respected, this can only be good for Catholicism in Ukraine. JPII is recognized as a Slavic Pope and a friend of the people, his mother was a Ukrainian and I think that helps. But some of the news reports make it seem like this is a Catholic vs Orthodox contest, and it cannot be that, given the numbers I have quoted here.
 
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Hesychios:
Oh my!

There’s that expression again! O well. 😉
I saw that and thought - well apparently everyone has their own rules of conversation - LOL

But I want to thank you for fleshing out these reports in the thread. It’s always good to hear from those who have more knolwedge than single reports.
 
The HrekoKatolitska Church in Ukraine is quite small (10% population) but is very nationalistic. The Ukrainian Orthodox church Moskva Patriarchate is large and officially at least very nationalistic although not all support Jedinoje Otechestvo and other ultranationalistic Russian parties. Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyiv Patriarch Filaret Church and Avtokephalic Orthodox Church are somewhat larger and also Ukrainian nationalists.

The Oranjhevi on the Maidan Nezalejhnosti were Ukrainians of all Churches but found support from Hrek Katolitska Church of Patriarch Huzar, Kyiv Patriarchate, Avtokephalic church (one of which in Kharkiv already proclaimed Jushenko President), Roman Catholic bishops, Evangelical Churches, Evangelical Baptist Churches and Lutheran churches of Ukraine. There were also some from Moscow patriarchate who do not follow the Jedinoje Otechestvo blok.

Italian article in translated English interesting but role of Poles in Ukraine is difficult. Ties of Ukraine with Russia are religious, historical, social, linguistic and cultural. Anti Russian sentiment largely anti-Tsarist, anti-Kommunist. Ties to Poland are less. Even Halicna prospered better in AustroHungarian Empire than in Poland because of anti-Ukrainian actions of Poles in 19th century.
 
WSJ Opinion Journal from the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page

From America With Love
Ukraine’s new first lady knows what freedom really means.


Monday, December 27, 2004 12:01 a.m.

In the most peaceful revolution since South Africa ended its
apartheid regime by electing Nelson Mandela president in 1994,
Ukraine has just elected opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko
president of the former Soviet satellite republic. The victory comes for the pro-Western leader after a dirty campaign that saw him poisoned and only after hundreds of thousands of demonstrators filled the streets to protest voter-fraud. “We peacefully, beautifully, elegantly and without any drops of blood changed Ukraine,” Mr. Yushchenko told cheering supporters.

What many Westerners do not realize, however, is when Mr. Yushchenko takes the seat of power, at his side will be a tough minded, savvy American-raised businesswoman. His wife, Kateryna Chumachenko Yushchenko, is the daughter of Ukrainian immigrants who grew up steeped in the traditions of her ancestral homeland.

Mrs. Yushchenko was raised in suburban Chicago as the daughter of an electrician and seamstress. During World War II, her parents were forced to immigrate to Germany and work as slave labor. They came to the U.S. in 1956 at the invitation of a Ukrainian Orthodox church. She grew up speaking Ukrainian at home, learning the national dances and attending a Ukrainian school and Orthodox church. “My parents felt they had to keep alive the culture and traditions they thought were being suppressed by the Soviet Union,” she told me.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s she worked in the human rights
office of the U.S. State Department. She also worked for the first
President Bush in the Treasury Department. But her dream was always to help Ukraine become independent. So after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 she moved to Kiev. Her business degree from the University of Chicago helped her land a job with KPMG, the U.S. international auditing company, and she prospered training the country’s economists in Western practices. She met Viktor Yushchenko when he was part of a delegation of central bankers she brought to Chicago. “He understood free markets, had a firm faith in God and knew what the right path for the country should be,” she told me. The two married in 1998, and they now have three children.

It is the strong bond he has with his wife that has helped Mr.
Yushchenko through the tough campaign and it will likely be his
relationship with her that will help him have a successful
presidency. Perhaps the darkest moment for Mr. Yushchenko came this fall when he was poisoned. At first it seemed to be a case of the flu. His wife recalls him coming home one night during the presidential campaign and saying he felt sick. She noticed a strange metallic taste in his mouth when she kissed him. It turned out to be dioxin, a chemical compound found in Agent Orange and a well known poison. Mr. Yushchenko has largely recovered, although the poison has left his face disfigured and the government has continued a three-year campaign to discredit him and his wife. After he was poisoned, the state prosecutor opened an investigation into the incident and then
tried smearing Mr. Yushchenko by claiming he had a disfiguring case of herpes.

Tape recordings made by a disgruntled bodyguard for President Leonid Kuchma show that the president personally ordered a disinformation campaign against the Yushchenkos. Mr. Yushchenko was portrayed as a fascist puppet of Western bankers and Kateryna as an active CIA agent. She responded by winning a libel judgment against a Russian television station that accused her of disloyalty to Ukraine. But the government has refused to process her application for Ukrainian citizenship.
 
…continued

Now that Mr. Yushchenko is to become president, it’s likely he’ll be able to push through more than his wife’s citizenship application. He helped implement some free-market reforms when he served as prime minister for 16 months between 1999 and 2001 before being ousted by hard-liners in Parliament. Now he has a popular mandate at his back as well as international support, which has only increased with the success of his “orange revolution.” His wife has also proved invaluable by introducing him to contacts in the West.

All this adds up to a rare opportunity for Mr. Yushchenko. Since its independence in 1991, Ukraine’s 48 million people have see-sawed between forming greater ties with the West or lurching back into becoming a vassal state of Russia. One out of six people are ethnically Russian. Still, a clear majority of voters now want the corrupt, pro-Moscow clique surrounding outgoing President Kuchma out of the government. Yulia Timoshenko, a charismatic ally of Mr. Yushchenko, says their time is up. She told reporters: "I think the key word for them in Sunday’s exit polls was ‘exit.’ " The challenge will be to move Ukraine towards a free-market economy. Mrs. Yushchenko makes clear that her husband makes all of his own political decisions, but she will no doubt be a valuable asset to him. “She is one of the brightest, most dedicated conservatives I have ever known,” says Bruce Bartlett, a former official in the Treasury Department under the first President Bush. “Anyone who met Kathy quickly discovered that creating a free, successful Ukraine was her primary mission in life, to the exclusion of almost everything else.”

Now the challenge facing Ukraine is to make the leap towards becoming a democratic society truly governed by the rule of law. Mrs. Yushchenko is realistic about the obstacles facing her husband and his team. “[Some] people are making a lot of money off the current system,” she told ABC News. “The last thing they want is for the system to change and for the economy to be a free market economy where the general population benefits rather than a small group of people at the top.”

Cynics may say that since Ukraine has never been a true democracy, reforming it will be impossible. But those are the same people who never predicted that hundreds of thousands of people would fill the streets of Kiev and other cities and force a new election. Nonetheless it happened. What happens next is now up to Mr. Yushchenko.
 
2004.12.30 RIAN:

PATRIARCH ALEXIS CONCERNED ABOUT UKRAINIAN ORTHODOX FLOCK’S PLIGHT

MOSCOW, December 30 (RIA Novosti) - Alexis II the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia-Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church-is badly alarmed by the situation of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under the Moscow Patriarchate.

“We have closely monitored Ukrainian elections. We welcome whatever choice the nation has made. Yet the situation of the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church alarms us as the Moscow Patriarchate is linked to it in common prayer, and upholds unity with it,” the Patriarch said to newsmen in Moscow today.

"I wouldn’t like to see the Ukrainian Orthodox Church facing problems if local supporters of schismatic sects recur to coercion as they have been doing.

"With due consideration for the nation’s choice of President, one ought also to hold in respect the flock’s choice of ecclesiastical jurisdiction-I mean the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under the Moscow Patriarchate. I hope Ukraine’s new President will be wise enough to take the road of unity not confrontation.

“We greet whatever choice is made by the people.”

The Patriarch wished the president elect “to have his rule bringing reconciliation to the Ukrainian nation, which has presently fallen into West and South. The split that has been ought to be stopped, and new splits are not to find whatever encouragement. The weal and the future of any country depends on public consolidation,” stressed Patriarch Alexis with
reference to Viktor Yushchenko, who scored 51.99 per cent of votes in a presidential runoff, which repeated last Sunday, December 26, according to preliminary returns.

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church under the Moscow Patriarchate is the largest Church in Ukraine and possesses 35 dioceses with more than 9,000 parishes, say the latest statistics of the Moscow Patriarchate Department of External Church Relations.

© 2004 RIA Novosti
 
I think that one of the atchievement of the orange revolution is that people at least on the west side of Ukraine do not whisper any more , we can say already loudly and openly what we think about the goverment.
And this is a great atchievement of the revolution.
Of course it is too far from the European Democracy , but at least with the help of revolution we did the first step towards the study of democracy.
We are not anti-Russian .
Catholics and Orthodox must unite together in the strugle for the moral health of the country.
I can not also understand the ukrainophobia from Ukrainians themselves .
Until now we do not see the monuments and the streets called in the name of Ukrainian nationalists who were fighting against satanic virus of bolshevism.
They were the heros who were fighting for the freedom of Ukraine against the godless virus, the virus who by its cruelty and unhuman behaviour had no measure.
And what it has to do with being anti- Russian ?
 
We are not anti-Russian .
Catholics and Orthodox must unite together in the strugle for the moral health of the country.
I can not also understand the ukrainophobia from Ukrainians themselves .
And what it has to do with being anti- Russian ?
Так, - ми не є противоросийський. Афенасию, де Ти бул? Я не знав що тепер Ти є католик - який латинский чи греко католицкий католик?
Чому не православний? Ось - не так важливо.

Но я как личный человек не анти русский - моя семья - брат и сестра - живут в Белгороде. Ну эта политичная граница другая проблема! Твоя сімья є від польського находження?

I didn’t know you became Catolic, Atansij. I have not seen your messages here for long time. Are you Latin or Greko-Catolic? Yes, Ukraina needs moral help of all believing people.

Боже великий єдиний нам Уркаїну храни!
 
Òàê, - ìè íå º ïðîòèâîðîñèéñüêèé. Àôåíàñèþ, äå Òè áóë? ß íå çíàâ ùî òåïåð Òè º êàòîëèê - ÿêèé ëàòèíñêèé ÷è ãðåêî êàòîëèöêèé êàòîëèê?
×îìó íå ïðàâîñëàâíèé? Îñü - íå òàê âàæëèâî.

Íî ÿ êàê ëè÷íûé ÷åëîâåê íå àíòè ðóññêèé - ìîÿ ñåìüÿ - áðàò è ñåñòðà - æèâóò â Áåëãîðîäå. Íó ýòà ïîëèòè÷íàÿ ãðàíèöà äðóãàÿ ïðîáëåìà! Òâîÿ ñ³ìüÿ º â³ä ïîëüñüêîãî íàõîäæåííÿ?

I didn’t know you became Catolic, Atansij. I have not seen your messages here for long time. Are you Latin or Greko-Catolic? Yes, Ukraina needs moral help of all believing people.

Áîæå âåëèêèé ºäèíèé íàì Óðêà¿íó õðàíè!
:gopray2:

Yes.
Byzantine Catholic.
Happy Christmass !
:blessyou: :grouphug:
 
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