Pope to cobbler: No red shoes

[Jennifoo]

I STILL think the red shoes are beautiful symbolism. I browsed the internet about it, and it seems that they used to be more elaborate, but the ones Papa Ben wore were pretty simple, rather elegant.

I don’t know if I agree that Pope Francis had to decline them because he’s a Religious. Yes I know that Religious make a vow of poverty, but I’m not sure that Papal vesture would be a problem. Now I could understand if a pope suddenly ordered new vestments unnecessarily when the regular ones were fine, but that’s not the case.

When I mentioned the importance of having a spirit of poverty, I wasn’t only talking about in relation to material goods. A spirit of poverty ALSO means being detached from one’s thoughts and ideas, and facilitates obedience. So that would include allowing others to dress him and lead him where he would not wish to go even when it goes against personal preferences.

One thing I really hate is the unfair comparisons with Pope Francis and Papa Ben, as if somehow Francis is better because of his choices.

 

[JReducation]

Of all the things that the pope should focus on, this is the least important suggestion. Let’s face it. :yup:

Everything that this man does and does not do is very consistent with religious life. We have not had a religious pope since the 1700s. Obviously, we have no point of reference; but that does not mean that a religious pope has to become a secular pope just because we only know secular popes.

I would like someone to explain to me why people on CAF TC Forum refuse to accept the fact that this pope is a religious.

 

[Jennifoo]

Of all the things that the pope should focus on, this is the least important suggestion. Let’s face it. :yup:

Everything that this man does and does not do is very consistent with religious life. We have not had a religious pope since the 1700s. Obviously, we have no point of reference; but that does not mean that a religious pope has to become a secular pope just because we only know secular popes.

I would like someone to explain to me why people on CAF TC Forum refuse to accept the fact that this pope is a religious.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this post. While I can’t speak for other CAF members, I DO accept that Pope Francis is a Religious Pope. I just don’t see a conflict with that fact and accepting Papal vesture. By the way, I’m not a traditionalist.

 

[MarkThompson]

Of all the things that the pope should focus on, this is the least important suggestion. Let’s face it. :yup:

Everything that this man does and does not do is very consistent with religious life. We have not had a religious pope since the 1700s. Obviously, we have no point of reference; but that does not mean that a religious pope has to become a secular pope just because we only know secular popes.

I would like someone to explain to me why people on CAF TC Forum refuse to accept the fact that this pope is a religious.

Just to check: presuming that the black shoes and the red shoes cost the same and are in all other respects equivalent, is there anything about his being a Jesuit that would prevent him from wearing the red?

 

[johnmann]

Even if it costs the same, red is flashier. Like a red car. I like black shoes.

 

[JReducation]

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this post. While I can’t speak for other CAF members, I DO accept that Pope Francis is a Religious Pope. I just don’t see a conflict with that fact and accepting Papal vesture. By the way, I’m not a traditionalist.

Just to check: presuming that the black shoes and the red shoes cost the same and are in all other respects equivalent, is there anything about his being a Jesuit that would prevent him from wearing the red?

Most of the clothing worn by popes has evolved from secular popes who do not have a religious charism. Much of this clothing is an expression of the regal position of the pope.

The religious life is characterized by its avoidance of everything that sets the religious apart from the common man, especially the poor man. In the case of the Jesuit, the religious life is precisely about being as ordinary as possible. If a Jesuit can be anonymous, the better.

When speaking about poverty, we don’t speak about price. Price has nothing to do with the vow of poverty. If that were the case, we would not wear habits. The average religious habit costs more than a three piece business suit. Depending on the climate, color of the habit and work of the religious, one needs several. For example, the typical Franciscan habit costs over $500.00 per habit. We do not speak about cost when speaking about poverty. Therefore, the price of red shoes and the price of black shoes does not enter the equation. We would not wear red shoes, because they are worn by royalty. Throughout history, those popes who were religious wore their habits, this included the footwear that went along with it.

Franciscans wore sandals. Dominicans and Benedictine popes wore black shoes. St. Pius V was such a holy man and so beloved that hsi successor had a robe designed for him that mimics the Dominican habit. It’s off-white, with a shoulder cape to mimic the Dominican capuche. It had a belt, just like the Dominican habit. This robe evolved into the cassock that today’s popes wear.

Each time that a religious has been elected pope, he has worn his habit or whatever is customary for his order. The only time that he would wear the papal robes would be for choir, which is rare that a pope be seen in choir, and for those events that the pope felt it was necessary. It has always been up to the religious to decide. Nicholas IV, a Franciscan pope, was so adamant about not wearing any of it that on his formal portrait the artist uses his face and painted the robes onto the body. He even gave away half of the Church’s money to the cardinals and created an autonomous college of cardinals. He refused to live in St. John Lateran. Instead, he lived at Santa Maria Maggiore. It was a small palace, but not as grand as that of St. John and later St. Peter’s. He made peace the theme of his papacy, in honor of St. Francis of Assisi. Nicholas was the superior general of the Observant Franciscans, before being ordained a bishop.

He was the successor of St. Bonaventure, whom we all know refused to go by the titles: Bishop, Cardinal, Excellency, Your Grace or Your Eminence. He always signed his name Brother Bonaventure. When given the red hat, he hung it on the branch of a tree and refused to wear it, always wearing his grey Franciscan habit. Cardinal Sean of Boston is a great admirer of St. Bonaventure and has very similar practices. When asked if he were elected pope what would he wear, he was almost stunned by the question. He answered, “My habit and sandals, what else?”

 

[Jennifoo]

Thank you JReducation for taking the time to explain more fully. I only wish the media, including Catholic media, would be as thorough when reporting on Pope Francis. I’m frustrated because the media seem to be reporting on Pope Francis and comparing him to Papa Ben, casting Papa Ben in a negative light. It breaks my heart because I really love Papa Ben and it seems so unfair.

Even my Pastor, whom I love so much, hasn’t explained this as you have, and I’ve pretty much been confused about the reports on Francis’ choices, which come across as a repudiation of the Papacy at times.

I find it interesting that the media, when reporting on Pope Francis’ choices, don’t bother to do the research you did, JReducation: they just spin it in such a way that Papa Ben looks bad.

I haven’t seen the Catholic media do this, but I also haven’t seen any really in-depth articles that explain all this. It would be so helpful, because at first glance, Pope Francis’ choices appear to be a repudiation of Benedict. Perhaps the Holy Father himself should explain his choices so as to stop all the comparisons. (Not sure if he’s been made aware of this yet. )know that charity is considered one good reason for Religious to speak out.

 

[JReducation]

Thank you JReducation for taking the time to explain more fully. I only wish the media, including Catholic media, would be as thorough when reporting on Pope Francis. I’m frustrated because the media seem to be reporting on Pope Francis and comparing him to Papa Ben, casting Papa Ben in a negative light. It breaks my heart because I really love Papa Ben and it seems so unfair.

Even my Pastor, whom I love so much, hasn’t explained this as you have, and I’ve pretty much been confused about the reports on Francis’ choices, which come across as a repudiation of the Papacy at times.

I find it interesting that the media, when reporting on Pope Francis’ choices, don’t bother to do the research you did, JReducation: they just spin it in such a way that Papa Ben looks bad.

I haven’t seen the Catholic media do this, but I also haven’t seen any really in-depth articles that explain all this. It would be so helpful, because at first glance, Pope Francis’ choices appear to be a repudiation of Benedict. Perhaps the Holy Father himself should explain his choices so as to stop all the comparisons. (Not sure if he’s been made aware of this yet. )know that charity is considered one good reason for Religious to speak out.

The media has its own agenda. The romance with Pope Francis is going to die out when they run into his fierce opposition to the same things that Pope Benedict condemned.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Just to check: presuming that the black shoes and the red shoes cost the same and are in all other respects equivalent, is there anything about his being a Jesuit that would prevent him from wearing the red?

Yep, they try not to stand out from the community and red shoes certainly make anyone stand out. Humility, etc.

 

[Jennifoo]

The media has its own agenda. The romance with Pope Francis is going to die out when they run into his fierce opposition to the same things that Pope Benedict condemned.

Good point.