Pope to make universal indult for the Old Mass

[Andreas_Hofer]

thistle:

You are clearly one of the elitists in the West and probably have never attended a Mass in a third world country (where most Catholics are). I’m British but happen to live in the Philippines. There are NO missals in any of the churches here. You have no idea how poor (in financial terms) the people are and the Church is in a country like this, which incidentally has more Catholics than USA. People are struggling hard just to feed their families (about 50% of the people live below the poverty line) but their faith is strong so the least you could do for them is to have a good Christian attitude (stop being condescending and arrogant) and let them have a Mass they can fully understand.

I could easily turn the tables on you and say that you are clearly one of the egocentric individuals in the West who assumes that because you are too lazy to learn some liturgical Latin the entire rest of the Church must be equally unwilling to try. The least you could do for them is to stop being condescending and arrogant by assuming they are either unwilling or incapable of ever being able to understand the Mass in Latin. I hope that sounds less than charitable, because your post did as well. However, I now see that you’ve since apologized, so hopefully this just shows sometimes education can bridge the gap in understanding just as easily as changing norms to people’s current level of ability.

 

[stanley123]

**Vatican official foresees broader use of Latin Mass **

I recall after the meeting of SSPX with the Pope, it was said that the reconciliation would proceed in steps.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Podo2005:

I just want to clarify that I am NOT a liberal, but at the same time not an old fashioned pre vatican II catholic.
BTW where do you get the impression that I am a woman? I am a man who puts full trust into the Church’s teachings and the Teachings of Our Lord.

Podo

Oops, sorry sonny. :tiphat: My bad.

Podo2005:

Another one of the biggest errors of Trent was…

You may not be a girl, but you are preachin’ heresy. Care to retract that statement?

 

[bear06]

palmas85:

I have often wondered the same thing. Maybe it is my lack of intelligence or something but the objections that I have heard just don’t seem to really be based on much.

I want to hear the consecration prayers.
I want to participate fully, and I won’t be able to.
I want to receive under both species
I want to understand everything going on at all times.
I don’t want to use a missal
I don’t want to learn Latin
I want contemporary music dammit
I want to receive in the hand not on the tongue

These are the main objections that I hear over and over and over, and over and over and over again…

What really stikes me though is the complete and utter hatred that some apparently feel for the Traditional Mass. It is almost as if the spirit of Martin Luther is walking amongst us.

Of course he was called merely a seeker of truth on one of these forums once, so you never know what the real motivation of some people may be…

Hey, I want to hear the Consecration not just to hear it but so I don’t miss it. I also have noooooooooooooooooooooooo problem with the Tridentine. No hatred for those attached to it. In fact, no hatred for anyone but I still think my reasoning is sound. It would take too long to write again but in my lot in life right now, the “Novus Ordo” is a blessing for me because I don’t want to miss the Consecration. So sue me!

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Ham1:

Some good points here…

I think that cleaning up the current Mass will be the main focus. It is happening already with many many good young priests and good seminaries. We also have many great new bishops in this country. It will take time, but all things do. In 20 years, I would expect the liturgy will be quite as it was originally intended to be. I know it is in my parish and several of our surrounding parishes because of good young priests…and I don’t even live in a particularly “excellent” diocese.

Ah…we have reached common ground! :clapping: I, too, believe the Holy Father will focus much of his attention on the new Mass. As I’ve said, we’ve had over 40 years to see it in action. Surely we know by now what works and what doesn’t.

I think the main thing is it needs to be streamlined. You can attend Mass on a Sunday at a parish, drive 5 minutes down the street to another parish on the same Sunday and see an almost entirely different Mass. Eliminate the options!

Alternate Collects, alternate Penetential Rites unless Holy Water is sprinkled, in which case it’s eliminated entirely, the Kyrie is said, unless option B or C was used as the Penetential Rite, the dreaded [text in brackets may be omitted], a dozen or more Eucharistic Prayers, alternate Postcommunions and finally, 3 different dismissals (4 if you count the “Have a nice day” I heard not two weeks ago.) Now, really. This is bordering on the absurd. A streamlined Mass with many if not all “options” eliminated, I believe, would considerably curb abuses because it would send a message that this is what the Church expects. When you are offered so many options, no wonder so many priests think they can just ad lib their own prayers.

I can’t wait to see what the Pope has in store for the Mass. Whatever it is, it’ll be good. :yup:

 

[Dr.Bombay]

bear06:

Hey, I want to hear the Consecration not just to hear it but so I don’t miss it. I also have noooooooooooooooooooooooo problem with the Tridentine. No hatred for those attached to it. In fact, no hatred for anyone but I still think my reasoning is sound. It would take too long to write again but in my lot in life right now, the “Novus Ordo” is a blessing for me because I don’t want to miss the Consecration. So sue me!

How about we settle out of court? You just send me some cash and I won’t sue you.

 

[Freeway4321]

Dr. Bombay:

Ah…we have reached common ground! :clapping: I, too, believe the Holy Father will focus much of his attention on the new Mass. As I’ve said, we’ve had over 40 years to see it in action. Surely we know by now what works and what doesn’t.

I think the main thing is it needs to be streamlined. You can attend Mass on a Sunday at a parish, drive 5 minutes down the street to another parish on the same Sunday and see an almost entirely different Mass. Eliminate the options!

Alternate Collects, alternate Penetential Rites unless Holy Water is sprinkled, in which case it’s eliminated entirely, the Kyrie is said, unless option B or C was used as the Penetential Rite, the dreaded [text in brackets may be omitted], a dozen or more Eucharistic Prayers, alternate Postcommunions and finally, 3 different dismissals (4 if you count the “Have a nice day” I heard not two weeks ago.) Now, really. This is bordering on the absurd. A streamlined Mass with many if not all “options” eliminated, I believe, would considerably curb abuses because it would send a message that this is what the Church expects. When you are offered so many options, no wonder so many priests think they can just ad lib their own prayers.

I can’t wait to see what the Pope has in store for the Mass. Whatever it is, it’ll be good. :yup:

You should read

The Spirituality of the Ancient Liturgy
by Father Chad Ripperger, F.S.S.P

Part 1
latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2001_SU_Ripperger.html

Part 2
latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2001_FA_Ripperger.html

I read these lastnight and Father addresses what you have said. It is very true.

A few excerpts

“For insofar as the ritual is determined by our choice among options and not according to the universal laws of the Church, we take a certain pleasure in being in control. But this to subordinate a spiritual good to our natural desires.”

“To return to our discussion of liturgical options, by having a predetermined ritual by the universal laws of the Church, one avoids having one person force his disposition and his own spiritual life or lack thereof on the rest of the people attending Mass. In other words, it avoids having someone impose himself or intrude on the spiritual lives of the laity by the choices he makes which flow from his own interior dispositions and spiritual life. Since people naturally differ in disposition, when the ritual becomes the product of one individual or even a few, it loses its spiritual appeal to the rest of the people, who may not share the same dispositions.”

“Lack of options teaches the priest detachment and it also teaches the laity self-denial because they know they cannot try to manipulate the priest to do in the liturgy what they want, since it is out of his hands. Detachment is key to any discussion of the liturgy and any sound spiritual life. Modern man has lost all detachment regarding the liturgy and he is constantly subjecting it to his appetites. But we need detachment, and any discussion of liturgical restoration requires that people first detach themselves from what they want so that they can know what God wants. Furthermore, the multitude of options and lack of detachment in the liturgy has led to a type of Immanentism. Immanentism is a philosophy or notion which holds that everything of importance is about us and comes from us. If it is not from us, then it has no meaning or significance. Immanentism comes from the two Latin words in and manere which mean to remain in. Since man is incapable of reaching the heavens on his own (Babel and the Pelagian heresies have clearly demonstrated that), the liturgy must be from God and about God in order to draw us out of ourselves and to foster any sense of the transcendent, the striving for which is deeply rooted in the heart of man.”

 

[Iohannes]

Podo,
It is also heresy to say that it is not enough to recieve one species alone for the laity. You do not get more grace by recieving two species at the same time.

 

[palmas85]

bear06:

Hey, I want to hear the Consecration not just to hear it but so I don’t miss it. I also have noooooooooooooooooooooooo problem with the Tridentine. No hatred for those attached to it. In fact, no hatred for anyone but I still think my reasoning is sound. It would take too long to write again but in my lot in life right now, the “Novus Ordo” is a blessing for me because I don’t want to miss the Consecration. So sue me!

No disrespect, but could I ask why it is so important for you to hear it? Is it not enough to know that the greatest mystery on earth has just been accomplished in your presence?

For me, I still feel that almost childlike sense of wonder when the Priest elevates the Eucharist and I realize that once again Jesus is physically among us. Almost like Christmas morning.

 

[Freeway4321]

palmas85:

No disrespect, but could I ask why it is so important for you to hear it? Is it not enough to know that the greatest mystery on earth has just been accomplished in your presence?

For me, I still feel that almost childlike sense of wonder when the Priest elevates the Eucharist and I realize that once again Jesus is physically among us. Almost like Christmas morning.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2874/mass70ao.jpg

 

[Podo2005]

Dr. Bombay:

Oops, sorry sonny. :tiphat: My bad.

You may not be a girl, but you are preachin’ heresy. Care to retract that statement?

My bad , I meant went overboard on certain issues

 

[Podo2005]

Iohannes:

Podo,
It is also heresy to say that it is not enough to recieve one species alone for the laity. You do not get more grace by recieving two species at the same time.

Did the Lord miss a point when he offered both species? No, and neither did the church , we have both the body and blood at mass now, learn to accept this.

Podo2005

 

[Podo2005]

msproule:

Really? Then how do you reconcile this statement, which you just posted:
This, dare I say, is heresy.
There were no errors in Vatican II. Netmil(name removed by moderator) never said there were. Yes, God does “speak through the Church”, which includes Her Councils. He did so through Vatican II, and He did so at Trent, etc. Come on now, you need to stop this…

Like you, I have known nothing but the post-conciliar Church, yet I do not spew these ridiculous condemnations with no basis. If you insist on doing so, please offer some support for your seemingly heretical views.

My bad again I meant CURRENT church teachings(after vatican II)

 

[netmilsmom]

Podo2005:

Another one of the biggest errors of Trent was Communion under the form of bread alone: Jesus said " Take eat, this is my body, take drink this is my blood, Therefore what excuse do you have not to drink from the cup? You won’t get sick trust me… all this talk about being afraid to recieve our Lord when he said we had to recieve both his.

Dear Heart, I receive by intinction.

Why are you telling me that I won’t get sick. Are you presuming who I am?

 

[Podo2005]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Dear Heart, I receive by intinction.

Why are you telling me that I won’t get sick. Are you presuming who I am?

No I mean’t alot of people on this site think that if you recieve the Blood you will get sick… Sorry I didn’t mean to offend you…

Forgetting the sickness part, I meant that you should recieve both because that is what Jesus said.

Podo2005 (sorry again)

 

[Podo2005]

First paragraph = unintelligible.

Second paragraph = heresy.

Third paragraph = historically ignorant.

Sig = it’s/its error
[/quote]

How is truth unintelligible? How is my 2nd paragraph heresy? We are supposed to recieve under both forms.

 

[Podo2005]

Podo2005:

Ok Why is my signature funny? The church did mess up at the council of trent and regained our actually church after vatican II. people who say that just don’t agree with The Church.
Another one of the biggest errors of Trent was Communion under the form of bread alone: Jesus said " Take eat, this is my body, take drink this is my blood, Therefore what excuse do you have not to drink from the cup? You won’t get sick trust me… all this talk about being afraid to recieve our Lord when he said we had to recieve both his.
Tell me some errors from Vatican II since you insist that the Church slipped from there. But answer me this, don’t you think Vatican II was intended for us by God( God speaks through the Church).

Podo

*Therefore what excuse do **we **have not to drink from the cup? We won’t get sick trust me…

 

[bear06]

palmas85:

No disrespect, but could I ask why it is so important for you to hear it? Is it not enough to know that the greatest mystery on earth has just been accomplished in your presence?

For me, I still feel that almost childlike sense of wonder when the Priest elevates the Eucharist and I realize that once again Jesus is physically among us. Almost like Christmas morning.

Yikes. I clarified that I didn’t have to hear it for it to be enough for me. I just don’t want to miss it and unfortunately for me, in my state of life, if it’s not audible I would miss it completely quite often. I’m just guessing you have no children yet. When I am at a Tridentine with two under two, I often don’t get to count the bells or see the elevation (from the child muffling vestibule while trying to keep those two under wraps. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have demon children. My eldest 4 are perfect in Mass but the last two, well, that’s just the nature of the beast. I have attended TLM’s in the past and found myself completely missing the Consecration because of no site or sound. At the “Novus Ordo” in English or Latin I can at the very least hear it and know when it is happening. Life may not always be like this for me but I’m still relatively young so I have no end in site yet. Once again, I thank God everyday for a Mass that allows me to not miss the Consecration in my distracted life which is the vocation to which God called me. I’m not saying that one Mass is better than another for everyone. I am saying that the “Novus Ordo” Mass is better for ME and it’s not because I have a problem with the inaubidble Consecration of the TLM. That’s perfectly fine for those who don’t have the distractions. I’ve been out in the vestible with several other mothers of loud toddlers and I can tell you that there are more people totally missing the Consecration than me! I completely agree with you about the childlike wonder but, if I’ve explained it well enough you’ll see why the audible Consecration is best for me.

 

[Thriller]

Scotty PGH:

Ah - here we go:

forums.catholic-questions.org/member.php?userid=6307

Birthday:
April 3, 1991 Biography:
former captain of altar servers, teen with lots of knowledge for age lol Location:
Cold Horrible Quebec Interests:
hockey,reading going to laronde Occupation:
student Religion:
Roman Catholic

So you got tired of nobody taking you seriously as a 14 year old, so you re-registered as a 24 year old?

How do you know Podo2004=Podo2005? They can be 2 different people…
It’s just like saying Scotty PGH is someone else based on the some common link( like a name)…

Thriller…

 

[Thriller]

James0235:

It gets better. In this thread Podo2004 actually responds to a question posed by Podo2005. Hilarious!

James

I don’t see the hilarity in this James. You should act more like a responsible adult and think when you speak. As I stated before they can be 2 different people. Unless of course you know who Podo2004 is and who Podo2005 is?

Thriller…