Pope to Reintroduce Latin into the Novus Ordo and Move the "Sign of Peace"

[Jimsdun]

How appropriate today is the feast of St. Thomas! Cynical me will believe it when I see it.

I have to admit that I’d hate the sign of peace to be moved elsewhere. It would only emphasize the discontinuity with our liturgical heritage and as well end the unique additional interpretation that the Sign brings in the Roman liturgy. That said, I don’t have the problem that many encounter (which is probably reason no.1) since the custom in my parish involves bowing rather than shaking hands.

It now seems like the sign of peace is offered twice. Once at the beginning of mass when the priest asks everyone to greet one another and then again during the regular sign of the peace. The greeting at the beginning of mass is not part of the liturgy, but it is becoming so common - that it seems like it is getting incorporated into the liturgy

 

[brigid12]

Excellent post. What many fail to realize, it that the Sunday Mass is pretty much THE interface between the Church and many Catholics. Inserting foreign languages may well drive a wedge for some.

It would seem that most of the Latin proponents are either folks who grew up with it, or others who are VERY deep into their faith…and there is a tendency for them to assume that everyone should be like them.

But that isn’t the case. Everyone isn’t like them. And, that sort of mindset leads to elitism, which by definition is exclusionary…in direct conflict with Jesus’ exhortation to bring all to him.

Now let me say at the outset that I would love to see these changes!
As the poster said above, it takes very little for many Catholics to get upset by anything that seems traditional at all. For example, both the priest at the parish I go to and a parishioner (at a daily Mass) were upset by the change for the Pope to give Communion on the tongue and kneeling at Papal Masses! I can’t imagine what having to have the Eucharistic Prayer in Latin would do? This is so ridiculous, but that is the way many are!

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

further proof that the novus ordo was a gigantic mistake on the vatican’s part. it breaks with tradition and is a banal fabrication.

why not get rid of it and return to the missal of 62 and start from there.

 

[dandn5000]

further proof that the novus ordo was a gigantic mistake on the vatican’s part. it breaks with tradition and is a banal fabrication.

why not get rid of it and return to the missal of 62 and start from there.

Do you have any idea what kind of implications that move would have?

We all know what happened when the OF Mass came into force in the late 60’s. People left in droves, because it was way too much change, way too quick.

It would be the same exact thing all over again. The vast majority of Catholics in the United States(and more than likely everywhere else in the world) have had the OF Mass for almost forty years, exclusively. Suddenly tossing it out and going back to 1962, while it may be the same Mass, is in an entirely different package, would result in the same exact thing. People would leave in droves.

I’m all for cleaning up the liturgy, but slow and steady is how it’s going to get done and done well.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

When I see it in my diocese newspaper as being implemented, then I’ll be concerned enough. My bishop is very orthodox, and he will do things exectly correctly- as he has with the EF. Until then, I sick and tired of all this rumor and second-hand, third-hand ecclesical gossip.

 

[ethelzguy]

When I see it in my diocese newspaper as being implemented, then I’ll be concerned enough. My bishop is very orthodox, and he will do things exectly correctly- as he has with the EF. Until then, I sick and tired of all this rumor and second-hand, third-hand ecclesical gossip.

Exactly

Some folks watch and listen for every little shake and shimmy that comes from Rome, as if it implies dramatic change to occur within months.

In the meantime, time marches on, as does our journey toward Salvation. We can live the faith we have, daily, or we can squander our opportunity waiting for “someday”.

 

[mattkubes]

It now seems like the sign of peace is offered twice. Once at the beginning of mass when the priest asks everyone to greet one another and then again during the regular sign of the peace. The greeting at the beginning of mass is not part of the liturgy, but it is becoming so common - that it seems like it is getting incorporated into the liturgy

Strange - is that a regional thing? I’ve never heard about a greeting at the beginning of Mass.

 

[sbriton]

Yes, but what is being talked about is removing the indult for the consecration to be in the vernacular.

So the Words of Institution would be in Latin at every Mass, in every country.

I’ve been to Mass in other countries and can say that I would absolutely love to have Latin for the Consecration. At least that way I could understand it completely rather than just recalling the words in English in my head because the local vernacular I don’t understand.

Simon

 

[SenorSalsa]

further proof that the novus ordo was a gigantic mistake on the vatican’s part. it breaks with tradition and is a banal fabrication.

why not get rid of it and return to the missal of 62 and start from there.

I’m sorry, i was taught that the Holy Spirit didn’t make mistakes. But I guess i have been wrong all along

 

[ethelzguy]

I’m sorry, i was taught that the Holy Spirit didn’t make mistakes. But I guess i have been wrong all along

Me too

 

[Dauphin]

Excellent post. What many fail to realize, it that the Sunday Mass is pretty much THE interface between the Church and many Catholics. Inserting foreign languages may well drive a wedge for some.

It would seem that most of the Latin proponents are either folks who grew up with it, or others who are VERY deep into their faith…and there is a tendency for them to assume that everyone should be like them.

But that isn’t the case. Everyone isn’t like them. And, that sort of mindset leads to elitism, which by definition is exclusionary…in direct conflict with Jesus’ exhortation to bring all to him.

Short of a mental incapacity, it’s sheer laziness not to be able to learn the prayers of the Mass in their original and proper language.

I want to point out that the argument that the Mass should be in the vernacular only and that that silly “foreign language” has no place in the Mass is an opinion that has been condemned by the Church in the twenty-second session of the Council of Trent:

CANON IX.–If any one saith, that the rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the canon and the words of consecration are pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned; or, that the mass ought to be celebrated in the vulgar tongue only; or, that water ought not to be mixed with the wine that is to be offered in the chalice, for that it is contrary to the institution of Christ; let him be anathema.

Every Catholic must profess that Latin has a place in the Mass of the Latin Rite.

 

[Cathryn]

Excellent post. What many fail to realize, it that the Sunday Mass is pretty much THE interface between the Church and many Catholics. Inserting foreign languages may well drive a wedge for some.

It would seem that most of the Latin proponents are either folks who grew up with it, or others who are VERY deep into their faith…and there is a tendency for them to assume that everyone should be like them.

But that isn’t the case. Everyone isn’t like them. And, that sort of mindset leads to elitism, which by definition is exclusionary…in direct conflict with Jesus’ exhortation to bring all to him.

Everyone should be very deep into their faith. My Pastor gives us the Traditional Latin Mass, and at the English and also at the Spanish Novus Ordo has been doing the Consecration in Latin. There is no elitism, most of the people who go to the Traditional Latin Mass also go to the daily Novus Ordo and most all seem to accept the Latin in the Novus Ordo with no problem.

 

[pnewton]

If nothing else this can show how rumors can get started. From:

According to some leaks, Benedict XVI has give the Congregation for Divine Worship the task of studying some modifications in the liturgy. In particular, it is said the Pope intends to reinstate the Latin for the formula of the Eucharistic consecration in Mass in the vernacular

, i.e., the one celebrated in different national languages.
to:

Pope to Reintroduce Latin into the Novus Ordo

Why is there any confidence that these “leaks” have any more resistence to color the story than any other human, or for that matter, Fr. Z?

 

[Dauphin]

If nothing else this can show how rumors can get started. From:

to:
Why is there any confidence that these “leaks” have any more resistence to color the story than any other human, or for that matter, Fr. Z?

??? The consecration is part of the Mass. Both statements are correct.

 

[pnewton]

??? The consecration is part of the Mass. Both statements are correct.

Not hardly. The Pope is not reinducing Latin to the consecration. Asking the CDL to study the issue is not the same as re-introducing it. He may in the future, but that is speculative. Things might unfold in any number of ways. It is also possible that the “leaks” are totally lacking in credibility, as anonymous leaks often are.

 

[Dauphin]

Not hardly. The Pope is not reinducing Latin to the consecration. Asking the CDL to study the issue is not the same as re-introducing it. He may in the future, but that is speculative. Things might unfold in any number of ways. It is also possible that the “leaks” are totally lacking in credibility, as anonymous leaks often are.

The article says he intends to reinstate Latin in the consecration.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

thenewliturgicalmovement.blog…iturgy-of.html

Thursday, July 03, 2008
Changes in the Liturgy (OF) - All Sacramental Formulae in Latin?
by Gregor Kollmorgen

Ignazio Ingrao, religion writer of the Italian weekly Panorama, has the following article in this weeks Panorama (NLM translation):

BENEDICT CHANGES THE MASS - THE STUDY OF THE NEW LITURGY ASSIGNED TO THE CONGREGATION FOR WORSHIP

The rite of the Mass could change. According to some indiscretions, Benedict XVI has charged the Congregation for Divine Worship to study some modifications in the liturgy. In particular, the Pope is said to have the intention to restore Latin for the formula for the Eucharistic consecration within the Mass in the "vernacular language", i.e. the one celebrated in the different national languages. The same could happen to the formulae of Baptism, Confirmation, Confession and of the other sacraments. In addition, the exchange of peace among the faithful during the Mass, which today takes place prior to the distribution of the Eucharist, could be anticipated (as in the Ambrosian rite) to the offertory so as not to disturb the recollection that precedes Communion.

These would be changes which would be added to the changes in the liturgy and regarding sacred vestments which the Pope, together with his Master of Ceremonies, Monsignor Guido Marini, has made in recent months, to recover ancient traditions: the restoration of the crucifix at the center of the altar, the distribution of Communion to the faithful in the mouth while kneeling, the recovery of the pastoral staff of Pius IX (the ferula), the changing of the style of pallium (the strip of white wool with red crosses worn by the Pope), the restoration of the papal throne used in the Consistory and the celebration of Mass with the back to the assembly, as happened in January in the Sistine Chapel.

Evidently if this is accurate, this is huge and wonderful news. However, so far we do well to treat this with great caution and as what it is: a rumour. It should be noted, though, that the moving of the sign of peace to the offertory is something of which Pope Benedict had already indicated in Sacramentum Caritatis that he would let the CDW study it. But the big news would obviously be the recovery of Latin for all the sacramental formulae. This would not only be a recovery of tradition for these themselves, but it would very effectively underscore the importance of Latin for the enitre liturgy of the Roman rite at its core, and might also help to regain a sense for the importance of the sacramental formulae which has been lost or at least blurred in many places. These are some first thoughts right after reading this; perhaps we will post some further considerations later. But keep in mind that this so far is just a rumour, and even the rumour only says that this is being studied.

Posted by Gregor Kollmorgen on 3.7.08 -

(emphasis is mine)

 

[mullenpm]

I am trying not to appear ignorant but on this web site in many forums initials are used for various types of forms of the Mass.

When I was a girl (a hundred years ago) we had High Mass and Low Mass; now I see a Mass called “Solemn Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.” Am I correct in assuming that this EF is just what we used to call “High Mass” or is this some new and special Mass?

Also, many people on these forums say that they are from NO churches and/or are raised NO. What does that mean?

Thanks for any enlightenment.

 

[estesbob]

Another youngin.

I don’t understand were the sign of peace is. It should be before the Eurcharist prayer not in the middle of it. I like how the Anglican Use mass does it.

I would rather it was at the very beginning of Mass. ill have to admit I dont like regardless of where it is.

I susect some youngin will be a little less young tomorrow.

 

[EasterJoy]

If there were an election on the issue coming up, I might study the different angles and complexities, try to see the other side, and all of that, so as to be better informed when making my decision.

As it is, if the Holy See actually decides to change something, I’ll do that. Until then, I’ll just keep following what we’ve been told. I have a few other irons in the fire where decision and/or persuasion are actually included in my duties. This isn’t one of them.