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saintjohnxxiii
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Is it just that a cashier at McDonald’s be paid the same wages as a Doctor making 6 digit figure?
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ishii
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Exactly. What is a just wage?Is it just that a cashier at McDonald’s be paid the same wages as a Doctor making 6 digit figure?
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saintjohnxxiii
Guest
When I use the term just wage I am referring to the 1959 Catechism where it quotes from Rerum Novarum and also Quadrageismo Anno where it uses the term living wage. It defines a living wage as one sufficient to support a man and his family in reasonable and frugal comfort.Exactly. What is a just wage?
A minimum wage is a wage that a single person can live on very frugally. For me its primary purpose is to prevent a ruthless employer from exploiting his employees.
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seekerz
Guest
Happy to oblige:Exactly. What is a just wage?
b. The right to fair remuneration and income distribution
- Remuneration is the most important means for achieving justice in work relationships.[659] The “just wage is the legitimate fruit of work”.[660]
Source: catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7216They commit grave injustice who refuse to pay a just wage or who do not give it in due time and in proportion to the work done (cf. Lv 19:13; Dt 24:14-15; Jas 5:4). A salary is the instrument that permits the labourer to gain access to the goods of the earth. “Remuneration for labour is to be such that man may be furnished the means to cultivate worthily his own material, social, cultural, and spiritual life and that of his dependents, in view of the function and productiveness of each one, the conditions of the factory or workshop, and the common good”.[661] The simple agreement between employee and employer with regard to the amount of pay to be received is not sufficient for the agreed-upon salary to qualify as a “just wage”, because a just wage “must not be below the level of subsistence”[662] of the worker: natural justice precedes and is above the freedom of the contract.
And for sources one can turn to in helping determine a just wage, see here: svdpusa.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=81RTI0c5EQg%3D&tabid=236
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ishii
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Great, thanks. But I’m a bit confused - maybe you can help me out on the application of this “just wage”: If I have 5 kids, I can settle with a job flipping burgers, or perhaps work as an attendant in a parking garage and expect them to pay me a just wage that will provide for my family of 7? Say, maybe $20-25 an hour?Happy to oblige:
Source: catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7216
And for sources one can turn to in helping determine a just wage, see here: svdpusa.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=81RTI0c5EQg%3D&tabid=236
Ishii
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saintjohnxxiii
Guest
Every day I am hearing stories about how the minimum wage is slave wages and we should all have living or just wages. When you read about the circumstances in their life you can see how they are indeed having financial hardships but what is missing is the importance of education in all of this. Whether it be college, University or trade school, this is critical to achieving a just wage.
You can’t expect McDonald’s to pay the front line employees a living wage as otherwise they would go bankrupt. Proof? In McDonald’s 2012 financial statements they earned $5,464,800,000. They also employ 1,700,000. If their entire profits were given back to the employees it would equal $3,214 per year or about $2 an hour. Of course that still wouldn’t be enough and even if they did that the shareholders would revolt and then watch job losses come.
You can’t expect McDonald’s to pay the front line employees a living wage as otherwise they would go bankrupt. Proof? In McDonald’s 2012 financial statements they earned $5,464,800,000. They also employ 1,700,000. If their entire profits were given back to the employees it would equal $3,214 per year or about $2 an hour. Of course that still wouldn’t be enough and even if they did that the shareholders would revolt and then watch job losses come.
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seekerz
Guest
I already gave you ample resources with the application of the just wage. My personal position is that a just wage should be based upon the average family size and poverty levels.Great, thanks. But I’m a bit confused - maybe you can help me out on the application of this “just wage”: If I have 5 kids, I can settle with a job flipping burgers, or perhaps work as an attendant in a parking garage and expect them to pay me a just wage that will provide for my family of 7? Say, maybe $20-25 an hour?
Ishii
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seekerz
Guest
You can’t expect them to pay a living wage? Hmm, then why would they expect a fair day’s work?Every day I am hearing stories about how the minimum wage is slave wages and we should all have living or just wages. When you read about the circumstances in their life you can see how they are indeed having financial hardships but what is missing is the importance of education in all of this. Whether it be college, University or trade school, this is critical to achieving a just wage.
You can’t expect McDonald’s to pay the front line employees a living wage as otherwise they would go bankrupt. Proof? In McDonald’s 2012 financial statements they earned $5,464,800,000. They also employ 1,700,000. If their entire profits were given back to the employees it would equal $3,214 per year or about $2 an hour. Of course that still wouldn’t be enough and even if they did that the shareholders would revolt and then watch job losses come.
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saintjohnxxiii
Guest
Is it just that a single person who has no children be paid less for the same work, same job as a single mother of 3 kids?I already gave you ample resources with the application of the just wage. My personal position is that a just wage should be based upon the average family size and poverty levels.
Tell Doctors that their salary is being garnished to pay for McDonald’s cashiers and lawyers as well. Tell Accountants that their salary is being garnished for call centre people and teachers as well too.You can’t expect them to pay a living wage? Hmm, then why would they expect a fair day’s work?
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Bklynguy
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Exactly. And if you live in a high cost of living area, say New York or San Francisco, that same wage for a family of 7 would probably need to be at least $40/hr. See how ludicrous this could get?Great, thanks. But I’m a bit confused - maybe you can help me out on the application of this “just wage”: If I have 5 kids, I can settle with a job flipping burgers, or perhaps work as an attendant in a parking garage and expect them to pay me a just wage that will provide for my family of 7? Say, maybe $20-25 an hour?
Ishii
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Bubba_Switzler
Guest
The problem with this entire discussion is that it presumes that an “unjust” wage is the fault of employers (or of politicians who fail to coerce employers).
Has it occured to the socialists out there that the existence of unjust wages might be the fault of the employees?
When the Church says something is ‘unjust’ it is essentially declaring it to be undesired and calling upon Christians to rectifiy the situation. Socialists just assume that the burden is on employers to pay more but that is clearly not the only option nor is it necessarily the most prudent option.
Someone mentioned a family living in a high cost city. Well, they can move. They can upgrade their skills, they can do many things to alevieate the injustice.
And this is all apart from the damage that ill considered public policy is causing.
Very often people are victims of their own stupidity. But more often they are led to ignorance by those pretending to help.
Has it occured to the socialists out there that the existence of unjust wages might be the fault of the employees?
When the Church says something is ‘unjust’ it is essentially declaring it to be undesired and calling upon Christians to rectifiy the situation. Socialists just assume that the burden is on employers to pay more but that is clearly not the only option nor is it necessarily the most prudent option.
Someone mentioned a family living in a high cost city. Well, they can move. They can upgrade their skills, they can do many things to alevieate the injustice.
And this is all apart from the damage that ill considered public policy is causing.
Very often people are victims of their own stupidity. But more often they are led to ignorance by those pretending to help.
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