Pope urges open arms for immigrants to U.S

[Dee_Dee_King]

“I want to encourage you and your communities to continue to welcome the immigrants who join your ranks today, to share their joys and hopes, to support them in their sorrows and trials and to help them flourish in their new home,”

i hope the church will take an offical stance on illegal immigration. i understand that the catholic church must accept all into her arms. but the state has the duty and responsibility to regulate immigration and protect its border language and culture.

non catholics can view this as a foreign leader meddling in our affairs. if the vatican wants us to open our arms to all immigrants, despite the serious problems, then the vatican should do as well. maybe america can send the vatican the bill for all of this immigration.

i find it ironic that christianity in italy and europe is being threatened by immigration.

 

[tomarin]

i find it ironic that christianity in italy and europe is being threatened by immigration.

i beg to differ – christianity in europe is in danger because of secularism and affluence.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

but the state has the duty and responsibility to regulate immigration and protect its border language and culture.

Did the pope disagree with that? I don’t think he did. The article indicates that he was addressing his comments to the bishops and cardinals of the United States. Am I missing something?

non catholics can view this as a foreign leader meddling in our affairs.

No more so than the pope calling on us to protect the sanctity of human life by opposing abortion, euthanasia, cloning, etc.

if the vatican wants us to open our arms to all immigrants, despite the serious problems, then the vatican should do as well. maybe america can send the vatican the bill for all of this immigration.

So, we should stop immigration altogether, because you feel it is simply too costly?

i find it ironic that christianity in italy and europe is being threatened by immigration.

Actually, the growth of secularism is responsible, along with the accompanying low native birth rate. That is why the population is declining and being replaced with non-Christians.

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

Actually, the growth of secularism is responsible, along with the accompanying low native birth rate. That is why the population is declining and being replaced with non-Christians.

i agree. but islam is hostile to christianity. i’d rather see europe european and secular than north african and islamic.

secularism isn’t all bad. only when it is antagonistic to christianity.

 

[Randy2]

I was shocked today to hear Groeschel’s comments on this from a Protestant caller to CA.

She asked did he mean illegal immigrants. Groeschel refused to acknowledge that distinction. He came back and said Americans may be sinners because undocumented immigrants pay 2.1 billion in taxes and get nothing for that.

I find his comments outrageous but toally in line with the politically correct US church. He is educated no doubt. Does he not read or his he lying to us here - cause what he said amounts to a lie. For starters, and many of you here see this every day, illegal immigrant workers queue up at the spots and get day labor. Cheap, payed in cash. No taxes. Groeschel is, to put it politely here, dis-embling. And someone like him is in charge of an order. Scary thought from my perspective. I find him to be manipualting at best.

 

[surfinpure]

He merely said “immigrants,” and I have no objection to that. I warmly and gladly welcome all immigrants to this country. Such were our ancestors. But it would be a stretch to say that by “immigrants” the Holy Father implied criminal aliens. This is not what he said, therefore it should not be made into a statement about illegal immigration.

 

[Randy2]

He merely said “immigrants,” and I have no objection to that. I warmly and gladly welcome all immigrants to this country. Such were our ancestors. But it would be a stretch to say that by “immigrants” the Holy Father implied criminal aliens. This is not what he said, therefore it should not be made into a statement about illegal immigration.

Well groeschel made it exactly into that. And if th supposed very orthodox catholic Groeschel can do that what do you think the Democrats will justifiably do in the fall. Frankly i find Grieschel more suspect the more i listen to him. What he said today was an untruth and I suspect he knows that. I have lost the little confidnce i still had in him and his order, They are going the social justice route more and more and “d**n” the Gospel. My opinion but if you contribute to his order you best read or listen to some of the dubious things he is saying. Then think if your money may be better donated somewhere else.

 

[Jennie66]

I heard the Pope’s comments on this topic and they have kept me up at night trying to discern what exactly he was meaning here. I think the overwhelming majority of Americans are welcoming to immigrants who come to this nation through the front door and want to be Americans and adopt our customs and language, and not just be foreigners living here permanently in their own little microcosm. Isn’t that what the term “melting pot” means, after all? I lived and worked in Germany, in Munich, to be precise, Pope Benedict’s former diocese. I was not with the military, but worked for a commercial civilian company. I entered Germany with a valid U.S. passport; I submitted myself to the German immigration laws that govern legal alien residents and workers in that country, including an extensive physical examination to rule out everything from VD to TB to AIDS. The company who employed me had to verify that they could not find a local German employee to perform the job duties that I was there to perform, and they had to state specifically in writing what those duties were. After that I had to stand in line with everyone else and have all of my paperwork processed. Only after all of these steps was I granted a temporary residence and work permit, and after a probationary period of three months, a longer term residence and work permit. I paid taxes, and lived by the customs of my host country, including speaking the language. At any point during the process, the German gov’t. could have turned down my application for residence/work, and sent me back to the U.S. Why, then is this to much to ask of someone who wants to come here? I really, truly, struggle with this. My dh and I have 5 dc. Finances are very tight for us, as they are for many Americans. Many native born Americans are unemployed or living in poverty, particularly but not limited to African American and Native American populations. What about our moral obligation to them? Why are they not as important as those coming from Mexico and Central America, for example? Once again, I am really trying to understand all of this, because it just doesn’t make sense to me. I cannot understand why asking would-be immigrants to obey our nation’s immigration laws is so wrong, or maybe I am just missing something here?

I am not saying that the Pope was referring to illegal immigrants when he made reference to immigration. I have been grappling with exactly what he could have meant by those words. Surely, Benedict XVI would not condone lawlessness?! He’s way too intelligent to do that. The biggest concern I have is that the ambiguity of his comments will just further stir the pot on illegal immigration in favor of those who want illegal immigration, because, as someone already mentioned, that is how his comments will likely be construed.

 

[surfinpure]

Well groeschel made it exactly into that. And if th supposed very orthodox catholic Groeschel can do that what do you think the Democrats will justifiably do in the fall. Frankly i find Grieschel more suspect the more i listen to him. What he said today was an untruth and I suspect he knows that. I have lost the little confidnce i still had in him and his order, They are going the social justice route more and more and “d**n” the Gospel. My opinion but if you contribute to his order you best read or listen to some of the dubious things he is saying. Then think if your money may be better donated somewhere else.

I have great respect for Father Benedict Groeschel. Of course he is not speaking infallibly here, only from his heart. Even the greatest theological minds, including many of the saints, have had disagreements over the years. But if Father Groeschel is erring in his judgment here, he’s doing so from a point of charity, as are, I trust, many Americans who believe we should welcome illegal aliens. Compassion is a grace, but it can also be misguided. And disagreements do not make one party evil and the other party good.

Let us not forget, “Now we see through a glass darkly…” There is much we will learn when, God help us, we reach Glory.

 

[SanJudas]

God save all here.

There is nothing “politically correct” about Father Groeschel’s comments. We need to recognize that the truths of the Gospel and our Church are not tailored to fit any one political or national perspective.

I, too, lived for many years in a foreign country. Although I tried to obey that country’s immigration laws to the letter, for one three-year period that was practically impossible, due to changing bureaucratic regulations designed to “punish” American citizens for our increasingly harsh treatment of their emigrants to our country. Even though I had already been working in the country for many years, and had a wife and children there, I could not regularize my status during that period. In addition, although I am a native born-and-bred citizen of the USA, I have not been able to bring my own family here because of minimum income requirements for a family of my size, and the cost of lawyers and paperwork.

On the other hand, I frequently witnessed older American men with personal wealth and political connections back home go down to that country for a week or two in order to shop for a bride, often as part of a tour arranged by a company here that specializes in those things. They would “date” (and often sleep with) a variety of 18-25 year old girls and then choose one to take back with them. Within a matter of weeks they had the visas, residencies, and other paperwork arranged.

To some of you, this will sound fair and good. They had money, I did not. The market dictates that they can make the system work for them in ways that I, through my own fault for not having accumulated sufficient wealth, could not. To others, however, this situation might stimulate reflection on our own immigration policies. Is it not possible that many good, decent people, willing to work here, in fact to do jobs that we natives will not, are caught in the same bureaucratic trap? There is a demand for their labor, or else they would not come, but for political reasons their status cannot be regularized. A Saudi prince who funds terrorist groups, on the other hand, can waltz right in because of other political reasons which happen to favor him.

I have neither space nor time here to discuss the effects of certain actions by our own country, such as NAFTA and support for plutocracies and cruel dictatorships, that have caused or exacerbated the inability of many of those same immigrants to live successfully in their own countries. Undoubtedly any discussion of the same would cause a barrage of invective from the unquestioning flag-waver crowd.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I was shocked today to hear Groeschel’s comments on this from a Protestant caller to CA.

She asked did he mean illegal immigrants. Groeschel refused to acknowledge that distinction. He came back and said Americans may be sinners because undocumented immigrants pay 2.1 billion in taxes and get nothing for that.

I find his comments outrageous but toally in line with the politically correct US church. He is educated no doubt. Does he not read or his he lying to us here - cause what he said amounts to a lie. For starters, and many of you here see this every day, illegal immigrant workers queue up at the spots and get day labor. Cheap, payed in cash. No taxes. Groeschel is, to put it politely here, dis-embling. And someone like him is in charge of an order. Scary thought from my perspective. I find him to be manipualting at best.

You are the one who is incorrect. Immigrants pay an enormous amount in taxes that go unrecognized and the figure of 2 Billion is certainly not at all out of line with numbers I’ve seen. The figure I believe is actually higher. The church has done an admirable job in protecting Immigrants to this nation, and it is one area in which I am singularly proud of her.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

God save all here.

There is nothing “politically correct” about Father Groeschel’s comments. We need to recognize that the truths of the Gospel and our Church are not tailored to fit any one political or national perspective.

I, too, lived for many years in a foreign country. Although I tried to obey that country’s immigration laws to the letter, for one three-year period that was practically impossible, due to changing bureaucratic regulations designed to “punish” American citizens for our increasingly harsh treatment of their emigrants to our country. Even though I had already been working in the country for many years, and had a wife and children there, I could not regularize my status during that period. In addition, although I am a native born-and-bred citizen of the USA, I have not been able to bring my own family here because of minimum income requirements for a family of my size, and the cost of lawyers and paperwork.

On the other hand, I frequently witnessed older American men with personal wealth and political connections back home go down to that country for a week or two in order to shop for a bride, often as part of a tour arranged by a company here that specializes in those things. They would “date” (and often sleep with) a variety of 18-25 year old girls and then choose one to take back with them. Within a matter of weeks they had the visas, residencies, and other paperwork arranged.

To some of you, this will sound fair and good. They had money, I did not. The market dictates that they can make the system work for them in ways that I, through my own fault for not having accumulated sufficient wealth, could not. To others, however, this situation might stimulate reflection on our own immigration policies. Is it not possible that many good, decent people, willing to work here, in fact to do jobs that we natives will not, are caught in the same bureaucratic trap? There is a demand for their labor, or else they would not come, but for political reasons their status cannot be regularized. A Saudi prince who funds terrorist groups, on the other hand, can waltz right in because of other political reasons which happen to favor him.

I have neither space nor time here to discuss the effects of certain actions by our own country, such as NAFTA and support for plutocracies and cruel dictatorships, that have caused or exacerbated the inability of many of those same immigrants to live successfully in their own countries. Undoubtedly any discussion of the same would cause a barrage of invective from the unquestioning flag-waver crowd.

Thanks for your informative post. Our immigration policy is terrible and has been for years. The church stands in the breech trying to protect those who get caught in the middle. Money does talk and talks big here. Unfortunate as that is. We are about to build a huge section of that horrid fence, even though its going to cause all kinds of environmental problems. that does not matter, since it will appease the conservative right in the GOP and that is all that is important. It will do zip to stem the flow of people in, most all of whom are seeking simply a better life, like anyone else. My best to you, and good luck.

 

[pnewton]

Who cares what some political party might think. The Holy Father is not insinuating himself into our petty politics. He is just reminding us of our obligation as Christians to open our arms for the stranger. The Catholic Church is in the business of ministering to these people, not policing their entry. The government, on the other hand, has the right to document entry, build barriers or deport those who enter illegally. Until that happens, though, these people are guests in the eyes of the Church.

 

[rwoehmke]

Who cares what some political party might think. The Holy Father is not insinuating himself into our petty politics. He is just reminding us of our obligation as Christians to open our arms for the stranger. The Catholic Church is in the business of ministering to these people, not policing their entry. The government, on the other hand, has the right to document entry, build barriers or deport those who enter illegally. Until that happens, though, these people are guests in the eyes of the Church.

Perhaps also in the eyes of God.
[Mal 3:5] I will draw near to you for judgment, and I will be swift to bear witness Against the sorcerers, adulterers, and perjurers, those who defraud the hired man of his wages, Against those who defraud widows and orphans; those who turn aside the stranger, and those who do not fear me, says the LORD of hosts.

 

[hazmatdude]

I really don’t care about our immigration policy. We know our politicians are corrupt otherwise we wouldn’t have 20-25 million illegal aliens in this country.

Lets talk about the Catholic Church in America. The problem is the good Father Groeschel and the USCCB choose to blur the the distinction between legal “immigrants” and illegal aliens on purpose. They choose moral relativism, moral equivalency, modernism over the Word of God.

What is it Fr. Groeschel said, they pay $2 Billion into social security and get nothing in return. Excuse me Father they use at least $50 Billion a year worth of services every year by most estimates. They get nothing in return?

This is clearly an example of what’s gone wrong in the American Catholic Church. Inclusiveness to the exclusion of the country and the American culture

How about some relevant examples of what I’m talking about. At the Holy Fathers mass for religious on the upper East side the first speaker highlighted the ethnic origin of the area: German, Eastern European, Asian, African, etc. and “especially” latino’s. Why “especially” latino’s? Are they better then the rest because they are latino?

Here in California we have had Church sanctioned segregation for years now. For example English language Mass is often canceled so that latino’s can celebrate a feast by themselves like say for example a segregated Our Lady of Guadelupe feast. Of course there is no parallel English language celebration.

I was told by a nun I could go to the spanish language celebration if I wanted to but that I probably wouldn’t understand anything because its all in spanish. Excuse me? This is a Diocese that makes sure all Holy Days of Obligation, Christmas and Easter are bilingual. The sad thing is my Diocese would rather segregate us into an English language community and a latino community for those who refuse to speak English then host English language classes so that we all might be one.

 

[pnewton]

This is a Diocese that makes sure all Holy Days of Obligation, Christmas and Easter are bilingual.

Bilingual services are a great source of unity between those who attend different Masses. Most parishes are separated not so much by language as by the Mass regularly attended.

Fr. Groeshel is not a modernist. That is nuts.

 

[SanJudas]

The problem is the good Father Groeschel and the USCCB choose to blur the the distinction between legal “immigrants” and illegal aliens on purpose. They choose moral relativism, moral equivalency, modernism over the Word of God.

Exactly where does the Word of God refer to legal/illegal aliens?

This is clearly an example of what’s gone wrong in the American Catholic Church. Inclusiveness to the exclusion of the country and the American culture

The One Holy Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church does not exist to promote any one country or its culture. If you want a nationalistic church I suggest the Church of England, the Russian Orthodox, the Evangelical Free Lutheran Church of Norway, etc.

I grew up in a Rust Belt town that has a large Polish population. Two of the five Catholic parishes cater largely to the Polish population, including Polish masses since VII. Even the other three churches have many Polish-ancestry members and participate in Polish feasts and festivals. Both local radio stations have Polish programming, even today. It’s a simple matter of demographics. Chicago and Houston TV give wide coverage to Church matters, because both have 30%+ Catholic populations. There was a time, my parents and especially my immigrant grandparents remembered it well, when all Catholics were treated as “aliens” and accused of interloping on “American” culture and traditions.

P.S. to all the Hispanic-haters: Get jobs picking tomatoes, plucking chickens, mowing lawns and roofing houses, and all these “aliens” will stop coming. And don’t tell me you went to college so you wouldn’t have to do those kinds of jobs–somebody has to do them.

 

[Andy_K]

paging Vern Humphrey…

 

[hazmatdude]

To Judas, brother in Christ, I believe Pope Benedict would disagree with you. Didn’t he say, “God Bless America” the other day. Sounds like you lost that one.

In high school and college I pretty much did all the jobs you said I’m incapable of doing except for plucking chickens which I did for the shear fun of it on grandpa’s property. I did however deliver paper’s, pump gas, bus tables, assembled pizza’s and hamburger’s and worked in several factories. Lord knows the country got along just fine with us citizen worker’s. Lost another. That’s zero for two.

Finally, I take offense at your concluding statement “to all the Hispanic-haters.” You like to sling mud and make fallacious assumptions instead of having civil discourse therefore I am brushing you aside like a little gnat because you’re not worth anymore of my time. Strike three, Judas. Kaching! You’re outta here!

By the way Judas not all illegal aliens are latino and if they took a day off to protest against this country the country wouldn’t notice. Oh alright, they already tried that last year and nobody noticed.

To pnewton, yes modernism!

 

[SanJudas]

To Judas, brother in Christ, I believe Pope Benedict would disagree with you. Didn’t he say, “God Bless America” the other day. Sounds like you lost that one.

Hazmatdude,

Where did I say that the Pope cursed our country and its people? He blesses every country where the faith is practiced freely.

In high school and college I pretty much did all the jobs you said I’m incapable of doing except for plucking chickens which I did for the shear fun of it on grandpa’s property. I did however deliver paper’s, pump gas, bus tables, assembled pizza’s and hamburger’s and worked in several factories. Lord knows the country got along just fine with us citizen worker’s. Lost another. That’s zero for two.

Do you do those jobs for a living now? Who has replaced you doing them, then? When I was in high school we didn’t have as many restaurants and stores as we do now, the big truck farms used Mexican labor just like they do now, and many high school and college kids won’t take those kinds of jobs anymore, for a variety of reasons. Our native population is better educated and most of us cannot survive doing those jobs for the wages they pay.

Finally, I take offense at your concluding statement “to all the Hispanic-haters.” You like to sling mud and make fallacious assumptions instead of having civil discourse therefore I am brushing you aside like a little gnat because you’re not worth anymore of my time. Strike three, Judas. Kaching! You’re outta here!

You post a juvenile paragraph like that and then accuse me of being incapable of civil discourse? If our forum readers want those kinds of comments they can just turn on Rush Limbaugh. As far as I know, you’re not a moderator and don’t get to decide who’s “outta here” and who isn’t.