Pope urges open arms for immigrants to U.S

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I really don’t care about our immigration policy. We know our politicians are corrupt otherwise we wouldn’t have 20-25 million illegal aliens in this country.

Lets talk about the Catholic Church in America. The problem is the good Father Groeschel and the USCCB choose to blur the the distinction between legal “immigrants” and illegal aliens on purpose. They choose moral relativism, moral equivalency, modernism over the Word of God.

What is it Fr. Groeschel said, they pay $2 Billion into social security and get nothing in return. Excuse me Father they use at least $50 Billion a year worth of services every year by most estimates. They get nothing in return?

This is clearly an example of what’s gone wrong in the American Catholic Church. Inclusiveness to the exclusion of the country and the American culture

How about some relevant examples of what I’m talking about. At the Holy Fathers mass for religious on the upper East side the first speaker highlighted the ethnic origin of the area: German, Eastern European, Asian, African, etc. and “especially” latino’s. Why “especially” latino’s? Are they better then the rest because they are latino?

Here in California we have had Church sanctioned segregation for years now. For example English language Mass is often canceled so that latino’s can celebrate a feast by themselves like say for example a segregated Our Lady of Guadelupe feast. Of course there is no parallel English language celebration.

I was told by a nun I could go to the spanish language celebration if I wanted to but that I probably wouldn’t understand anything because its all in spanish. Excuse me? This is a Diocese that makes sure all Holy Days of Obligation, Christmas and Easter are bilingual. The sad thing is my Diocese would rather segregate us into an English language community and a latino community for those who refuse to speak English then host English language classes so that we all might be one.
Gotcha, it’s really all about your personal problems with latinos and spanish. Funny, some years ago, I very purposefully went to a mostly Mexican Catholic church. The priest was from Cuba. I’ve never been so welcomed nor have I had better masses. I learned a bit of Spanish, though mostly mass was in English. I consider it one of my best memories of Church. I suspect your anger at latino’s has something else to do with that the Church. More about taxes, jobs, housing, or something of that nature.
 
i hope the church will take an offical stance on illegal immigration. i understand that the catholic church must accept all into her arms. but the state has the duty and responsibility to regulate immigration and protect its border language and culture.

non catholics can view this as a foreign leader meddling in our affairs. if the vatican wants us to open our arms to all immigrants, despite the serious problems, then the vatican should do as well. maybe america can send the vatican the bill for all of this immigration.

i find it ironic that christianity in italy and europe is being threatened by immigration.
The Holy Father also said this:
It seems to me that we have to distinguish between measures to be taken immediately, and longer-term solutions. The fundamental solution [would be] that there is no longer any need to immigrate, that there are sufficient opportunities for work and a sufficient social fabric that no one any longer feels the need to immigrate. We all have to work for this objective, that social development is sufficient so that citizens are able to contribute to their own future.

On this point, I want to speak with the President, because above all the United States must help countries develop themselves. Doing so is in the interests of everyone, not just this country but the whole world, including the United States.
- Pope Benedict XVI, on the airplane, 15 Apr 2008. Source: NCR
Don’t forget about that part. The Holy Father called on people to treat immigrants with justice. But he never called on us to open our borders (at least as far as I heard).

And, by the way, your thinking, regulate immigration and protect its border language and culture, is right in line with the Catechism and the Compendium of Social Doctrine of the Church (although there are many, many leaders in AMCHURCH(c) who don’t recognize those inconvenient parts of the Magesterium).
 
I do not have a problem with immigrants, but I do have a problem with those that come to this country illegally.

The sad fact of the matter is ,that even though most illegals here are just seeking a better life for their families, a huge criminal element enters as well.

What we need is a good solid immigration policy that will allow folks here, even if it just for seasonal employment, but at the same time keeping the criminal elements out.

That is my two cents worth of opinion.

God Bless you all.
 
You are the one who is incorrect. Immigrants pay an enormous amount in taxes that go unrecognized and the figure of 2 Billion is certainly not at all out of line with numbers I’ve seen.
Okay, if they are working “under the table”, precisely so that their “employers” don’t have to pay taxes on them…to whom are the illegals then paying taxes?? If they were paying taxes, they would have to be registered here to work, which would mean their “employers” would no longer be able to pay them subsistence wages, meaning these same “employers” would probably look elsewhere for other workers to exploit. That is what makes illegals so attractive to employers in the first place - they don’t have to be paid the same wages as a U.S. citizen, they don’t have to be offered the same perks, such as time-off, etc. Once that changes, the employers will look elsewhere. We have many millions of people on welfare here in the U.S. who cannot find jobs because the employers don’t want to pay them a living wage when they can hire an illegal immigrant under the table to do the same job.

Furthermore, when do we finally hold the Mexican (for example) government accountable for their treatment of their own citizens? Why aren’t the U.S. and Mexican bishops holding the Mexican politicians feet to the fire on this, or have I just not seen it? It is first and foremost the responsibility of the Mexican gov’t. to care for these people by paying them a living wage. Their is a very wealthy upper class in Mexico, a country that has a wealth of natural resources, including much mineral wealth. Why is it that the Mexican gov’t. and the associated upper class get a pass on this? Mexico likewise has a history of mistreating its underclasses, esp. the indigenous people (e.g. the treatment suffered by St. Juan Diego when he tried to share the news of Our Lady’s apparition). I would just like to know why it has become the sole responsibility of the U.S. to care for the Mexican illegals, while the Mexican gov’t is only too happy to provide them with maps and other means to arrive here illegally. You know, my family and many others are struggling financially speaking, and I know that our family is not alone in this predicament. It becomes very hard for me to hear constantly, “No, YOU aren’t doing enough, YOU need to do more, YOU are responsible for these people’s well-being,” when my husband and I are having a hard enough time just caring for the needs of our own family.
 
Furthermore, when do we finally hold the Mexican (for example) government accountable for their treatment of their own citizens? Why aren’t the U.S. and Mexican bishops holding the Mexican politicians feet to the fire on this, or have I just not seen it?
BRAVA!!!

This is my point, exactly. If I heard more from the bishops conferences of Mexico, Guatamala, Honduras, El Salvador, etc., etc., etc. to promote social justice in their countries…and heard more support for those efforts (if any) from our bishops’ conference, it would be a whole lot easier for me to stomach hearing about supporting migrants that have illegally emigrated to this country.

But it seems that we keep hearing about our responsibility to care for the poor migrants…and Europe’s responsibility…and not anything about fixing the injustices in their countries…

It would be nice if a prayer for justice to be restored in those countries would be included in the Prayers of the Faithful…but I have NEVER heard that either.

That’s why the Holy Father’s comments (see a couple of posts, above) on the airplane were so refreshing (to me, at least).
 
And, by the way, your thinking, regulate immigration and protect its border language and culture, is right in line with the Catechism and the Compendium of Social Doctrine of the Church (although there are many, many leaders in AMCHURCH(c) who don’t recognize those inconvenient parts of the Magesterium).
thanks for the info. i suspect that much of the support for illegal immigration in the church today is comming from liberation theology and marxist ideology rather than an authentic application of social justice.
What is it Fr. Groeschel said, they pay $2 Billion into social security and get nothing in return. Excuse me Father they use at least $50 Billion a year worth of services every year by most estimates. They get nothing in return?
as for benedict groeschel, i find he’s stuck in the 60’s civil rights movement. while i think he’s a great priest, he looses me sometimes when he talks so highly of protestant black spirituality to the point of sounding relativistic. it’s like being poor and darker pigmented is a sure sign of predestination.
 
as for benedict groeschel, i find he’s stuck in the 60’s civil rights movement. while i think he’s a great priest, he looses me sometimes when he talks so highly of protestant black spirituality to the point of sounding relativistic. it’s like being poor and darker pigmented is a sure sign of predestination.
I heard Fr. Groeschel talk about this a couple of weeks ago. I was taken a little aback by what he said. One other thing that he said, though, that got me was talking about this being an issue where the government tacitly approved their entry…through a lack of border control and through the loose mechanisms used to validate social security numbers. If one social security number came up invalid or pointing toward a dead person, the employer would be able to enter another number, and so on, until he found one that worked.

He brought up, indirectly, what seemed to me to be a good point: we (Americans, both personally and via our elected government) are just as guilty for this problem as those people who come up here to work.

We complain because our hospital emergency rooms are flooded with non-English speakers getting care, we complain because of the influence of MS-13 on crime, we complain because of the schools becoming more and more international and less and less “American,” yet we buy houses built with the labor of these same people. We buy meat butchered by these people. Our lawns are manicured (at work and at home) by these people. Could “real” Americans do it? To a certain level, yes. If we were willing to pay people enough to make it worth their while to do that rather than something else (to include sitting on their butts on welfare). But do you want to pay $6 a pound for tomatoes? Rather than paying $500k for a house, would you rather pay $750k?

And with more people having fewer kids, as is the case, do we even have the labor force to do everything with “real” Americans? Or have we contracepted and aborted ourselves, as a society, into needing to import labor?

My personal take on this is that it wouldn’t be that big a deal to us as a society if we weren’t so much of a “social assistance state” (to coin a phrase used by +JPII) as we are.

My point in responding is that I think the issue is not quite as black-and-white as either side is willing to admit. Our society is just as guilty as any other cause for creating this demand.

IMHO/FWIW/YMMV.
 
My point in responding is that I think the issue is not quite as black-and-white as either side is willing to admit. Our society is just as guilty as any other cause for creating this demand.
Yes, thank you Mark, that’s exactly right. We and the Latin Americans need to take a look at what we have each done wrong to create this situation, and then look for a comprehensive plan to start to solve it. In the meantime, as UncleMilt posted, our current system does not work and needs reform now.
 
To a certain level, yes. If we were willing to pay people enough to make it worth their while to do that rather than something else (to include sitting on their butts on welfare). But do you want to pay $6 a pound for tomatoes? Rather than paying $500k for a house, would you rather pay $750k?
i worked as a landscaper, gas attendent, trash picker and at a recycling plant sorting bottles from cans etc. these jobs now in large part are done by illegals. it was good work for a young man in highschool/college. i don’t understand what the problem is now.

greed is behind the illegal immigration problem. contractors pay illegal immigrants less. as for home prices, i can’t afford anything more than a small condo in a lousy area for my family and i have a decent job with the government. my parents lived at a time when a blue collar job could support a family and buy a decent home. if anything, illegal immigration is hurting middle class america. but i see plenty of homes selling for over $300k. i don’t get it.
 
He brought up, indirectly, what seemed to me to be a good point: we (Americans, both personally and via our elected government) are just as guilty for this problem as those people who come up here to work.

We complain because our hospital emergency rooms are flooded with non-English speakers getting care, we complain because of the influence of MS-13 on crime, we complain because of the schools becoming more and more international and less and less “American,” yet we buy houses built with the labor of these same people. We buy meat butchered by these people. Our lawns are manicured (at work and at home) by these people. Could “real” Americans do it? To a certain level, yes. If we were willing to pay people enough to make it worth their while to do that rather than something else (to include sitting on their butts on welfare). But do you want to pay $6 a pound for tomatoes? Rather than paying $500k for a house, would you rather pay $750k?/quote]

I agree with you up to a certain point. I try very hard to vote for politicians who share my views on social and moral issues, but unfortunately, they don’t always (or often) keep their promises. This brings up a whole other spectrum of issues that would pull this thread very quickly into another direction, but suffice it to say that in many areas, I think we can all agree that our elected officials are moving further and further away from the ideals and values of the people whom they represent. Abortion is one issue where this is so very clear, but so is illegal immigration. You can telephone and write letters to the editor or even march around with a sign and the politicians just don’t really care. They’re in office and you’re not. They’ll do what they want, and in most cases will say anything to get elected and stay in office.

Also, not everyone pays to have their lawn preened by landscaping companies. We cannot afford it, period. Of course, we have a larger than average family by American standards, so there are a lot of things we can’t afford, including family vacations to Disneyland, big screen t.v.'s, dvd players in each van and other such things that are more and more coming to define life in the American family.

Regarding fruits and vegetables, there is really no reason why Americans cannot do these jobs. Either we will pay people to be on welfare and not work while we pay higher taxes to support the growing population of illegals, or we will encourage our native-born unemployed citizens to find employment and support them while they do so. It becomes a shell game. It is an injustice to the native-born poor when we enable them to be unproductive by insisting , “no American will do this,” rather than to encourage them that yes they can, and help them along the way as they move up the ladder, maybe to even owning their own farm someday. Isn’t this what happened here in the U.S. during the Great Depression with the Public Works and other similar programs? We didn’t bring in millions of illegals then. I disagree that we need to do it now when their are so many able-bodied, native-born people who need a job, not just for the financial benefits, but also for the self-respect and confidence that having a job gives. We will pay either way, either by higher housing, lawncare or food prices, or by spending millions of dollars to care for the underclass of of the 3rd world who we are importing to fill these jobs.
 
greed is behind the illegal immigration problem.
Yes! Absolutely! And it comes from both sides. Continuing to enable illegals to come here and be exploited will not help anyone, either poor to middle class Americans or the poor illegals who come here. What it does do is line the pockets of the wealthy Mexicans and U.S. business owners as they continue to exploit the illegal immigrant workers like pawns in a chess game, while the middle class American taxpayer picks up the tab.
 
Yes! Absolutely! And it comes from both sides. Continuing to enable illegals to come here and be exploited will not help anyone, either poor to middle class Americans or the poor illegals who come here. What it does do is line the pockets of the wealthy Mexicans and U.S. business owners as they continue to exploit the illegal immigrant workers like pawns in a chess game, while the middle class American taxpayer picks up the tab.
Can I quote you on this? 😃
 
I was shocked today to hear Groeschel’s comments on this from a Protestant caller to CA.

She asked did he mean illegal immigrants. Groeschel refused to acknowledge that distinction. He came back and said Americans may be sinners because undocumented immigrants pay 2.1 billion in taxes and get nothing for that.

I find his comments outrageous but toally in line with the politically correct US church. He is educated no doubt. Does he not read or his he lying to us here - cause what he said amounts to a lie. For starters, and many of you here see this every day, illegal immigrant workers queue up at the spots and get day labor. Cheap, payed in cash. No taxes. Groeschel is, to put it politely here, dis-embling. And someone like him is in charge of an order. Scary thought from my perspective. I find him to be manipualting at best.
I really like Father Groeschel; I find him to be a holy, spiritual man. I didn’t realize that a call to fix our broken immirgation system was PC - and this is what the USCCB is advocating. I also never realized that Jesus was an American. Do you think he really meant to say “what you do for the least of mine you do for me…but check their legal status first”? When Jesus told us to love one another as he loved us he didn’t mention things like “legal” and “border”, he just said “do it”. As for our role as a nation in creating this mess, we certainly have been active. We support leaders in Latin American countries that design their economies in such a way that a few at the top prosper while millions at the bottom suffer. It’s all in the quest for the all mighty dollar and has squat to do with the Almighty. Yet those same poor folks who just can’t sit by and watch their kids starve to death (could you?) get criminalized and victimized over and over, while the truly guilty go free. 😦
 
it is true, and you have all convinced me to this fact, that when push comes to shove, a person shows his or her true colors.

in my youth i would have said something to the affect of: “i’de trade a million of you guys for one father groeschel.”

now, i simply sigh. remember that justice without mercy is death
 
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