Pope warns comfortable living causes 'gentrification of the heart' [CNAU]

[fix]

Yes, Lisa. You are correct. That was indeed WarriorMonk’s position on another thread recently, a position he argued vociferously.

My quote from then-Cardinal Bergoglio includes both gay marriage and gay adoption. Pope Francis is on record as opposing gay adoption. Just thought that WarriorMonk ought to be aware of that, particularly since he, not the OP, inserted gay adoption into a thread which doesn’t vaguely concern that.

Yes, the usual false choices are presented. Taking children from an orphanage and placing them in a contrived environment that is morally and psychological unhealthy is not an option. The Pope is not endorsing these strange new “family” relationships as some moral solution.

 

[Elizabeth502]

A question might be, how do we increase awareness of the cult of money/comfort/ hedonism, and how consuming, literally, that is?

I do think that the speed of everyday living, while not the cause, is a contributing factor in preventing awareness. Valuing time instead of “things,” by practicing that choice, is a way of witnessing to priorities. Part of that is indeed unplugging (she says as she sits at her computer ). Not necessarily months at a time, but as parents, hours at a time would be a good example for our children. And taking even more “vacations” from electronics on weekends, and instead spending normal time with others, with self, with nature, is one way to re-prioritize.

What say you?

 

[LisaA]

So, now that we have settled for once and for all, that Our Holy Father does not approve of (to put it mildly) adoption of children by actively homosexual couples, perhaps there’s a tiny possibility of the thread returning to the topic before a moderator closes it for being O/T.

A question might be, how do we increase awareness of the cult of money/comfort/ hedonism, and how consuming, literally, that is?

I do think that the speed of everyday living, while not the cause, is a contributing factor in preventing awareness. Valuing time instead of “things,” by practicing that choice, is a way of witnessing to priorities. Part of that is indeed unplugging (she says as she sits at her computer ). Not necessarily months at a time, but as parents, hours at a time would be a good example for our children. And taking even more “vacations” from electronics on weekends, and instead spending normal time with others, with self, with nature, is one way to re-prioritize.

What say you?

I resemble that remark and probably spend too much time online as well.

For Catholics it’s pretty easy to plug into charity and service if we want to get involved. I imagine my Parish is like most, whenever there is a mission or program or effort it’s the usual suspects every time. The same small group helps with our hot meal program and our food pantry and other outreach programs. Maybe being more proactive in asking people to join in would be helpful. I think sometimes people are intimidated or don’t think they have skills to offer or opportunities to serve.

I was hoping to get a “Non Profit Fair” at our Parish to allow people to get acquainted with various local groups and organizations. On Saturday we are having a program that is intended to get our Parish involved in the Just Faith program so I’ll see what that entails. Giving time and encountering others will help us get outside our physical and mental neighborhood.

Lisa

 

[Elizabeth502]

On Saturday we are having a program that is intended to get our Parish involved in the Just Faith program so I’ll see what that entails.

Just a warning to check that one out personally. It’s been controversial. You will notice that few details are given on their website. Some have described it as indoctrination, so I would just require answers, and not sign on until you get those. They charge for their “workshops,” which is I think where one gets the real information (and not before).

 

[LisaA]

Just a warning to check that one out personally. It’s been controversial. You will notice that few details are given on their website. Some have described it as indoctrination, so I would just require answers, and not sign on until you get those. They charge for their “workshops,” which is I think where one gets the real information (and not before).

Interesting. They had a course a couple of years ago and our Priest and a group did participate. One of my friends really liked it and the other said it was a waste of time and dropped out about halfway through. I guess we’ll see what happens! Our Parish is small so we have to latch onto already structured programs since we don’t have the staff or resources to initiate them. But from the beginning the Parish has allocated a percentage of all donations for outreach, social services, charity efforts, etc. So we have a real commitment to making a difference.

BTW during one of our programs, Living the Eucharist, I learned that not everyone has this idea. I was very surprised by a couple of our group members who said “I just want to go to Mass and go home…” She said she didn’t want further involvement in Parish life. It kind of surprised me because it seemed so different than what I think of when I think of being Catholic.

Lisa

 

[Elizabeth502]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7538996&highlight=JustFaith#post7538996

(and probably elsewhere on CAF also)

Excerpt from one of the links on the above thread:

In short, the program is a product of liberation theology and promotes the ordination of women, recognition of homosexual marriage, the feminization of God, extreme pacifism and environmentalism, using non-Catholic and Catholic dissenters to present “Catholic Social Teaching.” The JustFaith program is a partnership effort of Catholic Campaign for Human Development, Catholic Charities USA and Catholic Relief Services. It is billed as a ministry of the Church, “an invitation to a rich spiritual journey into compassion,” to “look more closely at the troubling issues of our times through the lens of compassion and Catholic social teaching.” According to page two of the Notes to participants, week 2, the program sets out to teach the “rich tradition of Catholic Social Teaching.” However, there is little reference to the encyclicals, Catechism, conciliar documents or the Summa Theologica where the Church’s authentic social teaching is to be found. (Nota Bene: one of my sons is taking a course on Catholic Social Teaching at a Catholic University; the curriculum consists of: Rerum Novarum, Mater et Magistra, Quadragessimo Anno, Pacem in Terris, Gaudium et Spes, Popularum Progressio, Octogessima Adviens, Laborens Exercens, Sollicidudo Rei Socialis, Finitessimus Annus, section 10 of the 5th Lateran Council, and sections of the Summa on Justice and Cheating/Usury).

The very opening sessions of the JustFaith program are problematic. For example, in week 2, the opening prayer invokes 21 “witnesses of hope,” including Mohandes Gandhi–“great soul of peace,”

The Cloud of Witnesses book is most revealing of the agenda of this program and of content contrary to the authentic social teaching of the Catholic Church. It is clearly stated that, “The articles and interviews in this book have been adapted from material originally published in Sojourners magazine.” The author, Jim Wallis, was founder and executive director of Sojourners. He has written in favor of gay “marriage.” The author, Joyce Hollyday, is a minister in the United Church of Christ. Sojourners is described as non-denominational according to its website, but includes left wing Catholic peace activists and dissenters, a Masonic veterans group, favors gay/lesbian partnerships, has a policy statement in favor of recognition and legal protection for the same, including gay “marriage,” and favors ordination of women, claiming five female ordinations and female bishops.

Among the Catholics featured in the book were many known dissenters such as Sr. Joan Chittister, Father Pedro Arrupe and others who criticize the Church rather than advance her authentic teachings. Some examples will suffice:
• Joan Chitttister’s unabashed advancement of the ordination of women is championed. She said, “There’s either something wrong with the present theology of ministry, or there is something wrong with the present theology of all the sacraments. If women qualify for baptism, confirmation, salvation, and redemption, how can they be denied the sacrament of ministry?” Her arguments that women are ignored in church language and for the feminization of God are given ample play in the text.
• Jesuit superior general Pedro Arrupe openly rejected Humanae Vitae and his “restructuring” of the Jesuits did much harm to the Order; the circumstances of his removal are unclear to me, but Pope John Paul II passed over Arrupe’s designated successor for another.
• Father Miguel D’Escoto is not permitted to celebrate the Eucharist in public or private.
• Journalist Penny Lernoux had distanced herself from the Church but returned in the “awakening” of Vatican II, which she described as “set to turn the Church on its head,” while she was herself under the inspiration of liberation theology.

The author references Familiaris Consortio, then trashes it and exposes his real agenda:
“Today, Catholic theology and spirituality does not view the love of another human being as distracting from our love of God. In fact, love of a spouse and child is viewed as participation in divine love. Sexuality is viewed in more positive terms as a gift of God to be enjoyed and celebrated within committed love and not only tolerated for the sake of procreation. These positive themes provide the starting points for a reinterpretation of marriage and family within the Catholic tradition. This revisioning is only in beginning stages. Catholicism and other Christian denominations are still working on understanding the role of women in the church and society and the meaning of committed homosexual relationships.”

So agan, I would just check this out carefully before registering enthusiasm to the parish, if for no other reason than to ensure that your good efforts do not backfire on you or tarnish your reputation.

As someone who abhors secrecy for the purpose of manipulation, in a free society, what is most troubling about the program are the “cultist” rituals, combined with the lack of disclosure about materials, process, etc. In an extremely liberal parish near me, the program didn’t even take off there, which was rather telling to me.

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

So, now that we have settled for once and for all, that Our Holy Father does not approve of (to put it mildly) adoption of children by actively homosexual couples, perhaps there’s a tiny possibility of the thread returning to the topic before a moderator closes it for being O/T.

A question might be, how do we increase awareness of the cult of money/comfort/ hedonism, and how consuming, literally, that is?

I do think that the speed of everyday living, while not the cause, is a contributing factor in preventing awareness. Valuing time instead of “things,” by practicing that choice, is a way of witnessing to priorities. Part of that is indeed unplugging (she says as she sits at her computer ). Not necessarily months at a time, but as parents, hours at a time would be a good example for our children. And taking even more “vacations” from electronics on weekends, and instead spending normal time with others, with self, with nature, is one way to re-prioritize.

What say you?

These are good points Elizabeth. For me, it even comes down to things like the amount of food I throw out. Try as I might, a busy lifestyle and a lack of time means that at the end of the week there’s almost certain to be something that wasn’t used and is now spoiled. But is it really a lack of time, or is it a form of selfishness/laziness? If finances were so tight that this meant we didn’t eat one night a week I’m sure I’d find a way to not let it happen.

It’s something I think about a lot - what amount of waste (of anything really - food, power, water, etc) is acceptable just because we can ‘afford it’? I would say none really, but so many things become bad habits because it’s easier and we start thinking of those bad habits as normal.

 

[Elizabeth502]

These are good points Elizabeth. For me, it even comes down to things like the amount of food I throw out. Try as I might, a busy lifestyle and a lack of time means that at the end of the week there’s almost certain to be something that wasn’t used and is now spoiled. But is it really a lack of time, or is it a form of selfishness/laziness? If finances were so tight that this meant we didn’t eat one night a week I’m sure I’d find a way to not let it happen.

It’s something I think about a lot - what amount of waste (of anything really - food, power, water, etc) is acceptable just because we can ‘afford it’? I would say none really, but so many things become bad habits because it’s easier and we start thinking of those bad habits as normal.

What an outstanding point about the waste! This comes not just from being an overly consuming society, but also from other assumptions.
(There will always be more products, not just for “me,” but for everybody.)
(I will always have more cash.)
(Replacement of commodities, including food, is automatic and inexpensive.)
(No one is affected by my waste.)

I myself have become more careful about tossing what is usable, merely “less desirable.” It started awhile back, from need (economy). Now I try to practice it more consciously, and this is your excellent point, and also mine as I have experienced it: Do we need to replace, or do we just prefer to?

For a long time my sister lived in the mountains. It was very inconvenient for her to just go pick up an extra item of food if she ran out of that. So she learned to do without, even though she was relatively wealthy. She shopped weekly, only, and they ate what was there in the house to eat. I’ve tried to adopt more of her practices.

But for many people, it’s not just food or even mainly food: It’s other products which are “must-haves.” So you “can’t do without” paper towels or paper napkins or paper plates (all disposable)? You can, actually. It’s been done. Hey, when you run out of foil, use waxed paper or cellophane wrap from purchased products. Run out of butter? Use oil. If nothing else, guess what it saves: Fuel for cars!

Normally I don’t like bumper stickers. However, an acquaintance of mine actually lives by this one: “Live Simpy, so that Others May Simply Live.” It’s a recognition of hoarding of resources in the First World, and I do think of this more often since having known her. Think more about what we need when we shop, less of what we just want. Mentally put aside that money for the “want” item for a donation to a fave charity/cause.

I’m not a radical in terms of “luxuries,” so that we should never indulge. It’s just that with overabudance comes a lack of moderation in the pursuit of luxuries, which was my point in my first post here. When luxury is an everyday reality, then we’re like the caricature of the man in the Gospel parable who wore (expensive) purple robes routinely and ate meat often(Lk 16:19). It clouds your vision and disorders your life.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

BTW when I was a Methodist one of church members headed up an adoption agency that placed ONLY special needs children. She said they always had a waiting list of married couples looking to adopt.

These are two separate statements. There are plenty of families waiting to adopt, provided the children meet their profile. If these people are waiting to adopt minority and disabled children, they aren’t doing a very job, because there are tens of thousands of those children waiting for parents.

So if you are aware of children who need loving parents, please try to access one of these agencies rather than concluding they do not exist.

I, of course, have contacted various domestic agencies, Catholic and otherwise, so I know what is out there and what is involved. We came close to adopting two minority sisters (I think they were 9 and 11), but they didn’t want the children taking out of state (we were several states away) because their brother was in someone’s care in that state.

That being said, I do agree that many people live in a bubble and do not know what is happening in the world.

True. Start meeting some of these physically and sexually abused kids in orphanages in foster care, then we’ll continue the discussion. The Pope would wash these kids feet. Most people would simply continue to stick their heads in the sand and remain unaware.

 

[LisaA]

These are two separate statements. There are plenty of families waiting to adopt, provided the children meet their profile. If these people are waiting to adopt minority and disabled children, they aren’t doing a very job, because there are tens of thousands of those children waiting for parents.

I, of course, have contacted various domestic agencies, Catholic and otherwise, so I know what is out there and what is involved. We came close to adopting two minority sisters (I think they were 9 and 11), but they didn’t want the children taking out of state (we were several states away) because their brother was in someone’s care in that state.

True. Start meeting some of these physically and sexually abused kids in orphanages in foster care, then we’ll continue the discussion. The Pope would wash these kids feet. Most people would simply continue to stick their heads in the sand and remain unaware.

You obviously have some kind of obsession with this subject as you completely misread my statement. The “profile” of married couples wanting to adopt children was for a special needs child. This is ALL the agency dealt with. So this is not the case of parents wanting a healthy blue eyed blond boy at birth. All of the parents signed up for and were screened to adopt special needs children. And my friend said there were always more parents wanting children than children waiting for forever homes with two parents.

I actually tried to find some evidence of your statement that there are tens of thousands of children waiting to be adopted. What I found was a long list of agencies and organizations like my friend’s agency, that specialized in older, minority and special needs children. I also found an HHS report (althoug a few years old) that stated that there were enough adopting parents that Americans were even adopting special needs children from other countries.

I was a CASA for several years and did become aware of older children that were in foster care with potential for adoption. Unfortunately our system is such that the children languish in foster homes, sometimes for years, as the parent(s) go through the process of either having the children returned to them or giving up custody. Again this is not the fault of the potential adopting parents but the system that seems to protect biological parents even if they have the parenting ability of a lab rat.

As to your uncharitable attitude toward everyone on CAF, give it a rest. You have no clue what anyone here does or does not do for Christ and His Church.

Lisa

 

[Elizabeth502]

You obviously have some kind of obsession with this subject as you completely misread my statement.

…an obsession that is so disproportionate that it spills over into threads of completely different topics. It is highly unjust of WarriorMonk to continue to hijack this thread because he lost the argument on the other one.

WM: Please respect the forum community and go open your own thread on the topic, reopen a thread, something. This thread is not about gay adoption and the mean old people who disapprove of it (which would include Our Holy Father).

Personally, Lisa, I would like to continue giving the Holy Father his due, given that his address is the subject of this thread. I think anything less is disrespecful. I will continue to talk about the thread subject, and engage you, the poster Do_Good_Then_Go, and anyone else who has the courtesy to stay on topic.

 

[FrancisBenedict]

There has long been a movement to simpler living. I feel this is a healthier way to live and closer to the Gospel way. Simplicity is in away a process never completed.

When we have too much (eg books, music etc) we can give these to charity or sell them and give the money to the poor,it’s easy these days! Then from then on not buy so much new stuff. Maybe try libraries, or swap groups or so many other possibilities.

It really is very simple.

Pax et Bonum! +

 

[Elizabeth502]

There has long been a movement to simpler living. I feel this is a healthier way to live and closer to the Gospel way. Simplicity is in away a process never completed.

When we have too much (eg books, music etc) we can give these to charity or sell them and give the money to the poor,it’s easy these days! Then from then on not buy so much new stuff. Maybe try libraries, or swap groups or so many other possibilities.

It really is very simple.

The mechanics of it are certainly simple! On that we agree. I do not agree that the decision(s) to simplify and the resistance to do so are simple at all. I think there are fewer and fewer simple communities out there, at least in the U.S. And I think that the accessibility of electronics has also distorted the individual’s sense of what is essential and what is not. (Keep in mind that typically when one visits an internet site for innocent reasons (emailing, information, or creating a document), one sees inevitable “headlines” (news or what passes for news), “gossip,” and advertising. So the legitimate convenience and efficiency of using electronics has a significant downside to it.

I think if one were without electronics these proportions are easier to see. I have treasured electronics-free vacations in the past, as I also did as a child. Now, when one goes on vacation to most places except the Himalayas , one can be 'assured" of Wi-fi. It’s a selling point for hotels. (“All rooms have internet.”) For business hotels, it makes sense; for other locations, not so much. Your “vacation” includes laptop and/or tablet, as well as smartphone and more. And don’t forget about the 'free cable TV in every room."

And I’m saying that I think these temptations feed into a culture of “must-have” consumerism. Yes. one can leave them behind, or not use them. That takes quite a bit of discipline for most people who have come to view them as essential. This is why I think that the Unplugged Movement is one of the key elements to material freedom or a degree of detachment. I think as indivduals and families, such self-discipline should be a call within parishes, as well as secular communities. (Public service announcements, for example) It builds direct community to release oneself from electronics, even though I do appreciate htat it builds virtual community to be on the internet. But virtual is very removed, and direct promotes the simplicity of which you speak.

It’s so inter-related, isn’t it? The existence of interent ‘bookstores’ has all but eliminated the corner bookstore, and even whole chains of physical bookstores. Many communities have reduced their number of libraries and/or reduced their open hours. The whole culture of the library has become a quaint memory. In my region there’s a bit of a counter-movement in the determination of some independent & used bookstores to survive, and thankfully there’s a supportive section of my region who will patronize those.

I also think that with less face time and more screen time, the idea of a shared and simplified life is less real because it’s less personal.

 

[LisaA]

Just thought of another way to approach “re-use, recycle, or repurpose” which is a way to look at purchase of what I call 'hard goods" things unlike food that can spoil, but where you can really get the acquisition bug. When I was younger I was a real clothes freak, spending a lot of my then higher income shopping at nice department stores. Now I buy most of my work (business) and church clothes at either used clothing stores or ebay. Casual stuff like jeans and tee shirts, out in the yard clothes also available at second hand or charity resellers. (I tend to avoid Goodwill but like Salvation Army as well as a number of small private shops that benefit specific charities).

The irony is that I get a lot of compliments on what I wear to Mass (not jeans, sandals, or shorts which is another crusade I have) and I tell everyone that I got the nice knit suit on ebay or the dress at the “2nd Edition Resale” that benefits our library.

The only thing I tend to buy new are shoes since I have a difficult time with fit and need specific designs. Also I have shoes resoled or repaired. I actually have shoes that are decades old. New heels and polish and they look new. That and undies are the only things that have tags when first put them on.

Lisa

 

[Allworth]

It’s easy for the Pope to rail against “comfortable living”. How many people does he actually know who are living this way? Has he lived with them? Has he visited their homes? Has he talked with them? Does he truly know the state of their souls? Aren’t we taught not to judge other people?

I’ve checked the Catechism and nowhere does it say that comfortable living or desiring comfort is a sin.

I suspect those people who are living comfortably are a tiny minority in this world. Most people I know are working very hard to provide for their families. After the government takes much of what they have in taxes, what is left they give whatever they can to help their Churches and poor folks.

Here in the USA, Americans give more to charities than any other people in the world. Wealthy people do really help others here, but this fact is not known or publicized in Europe. Americans generously help people here when there are disasters like the tornadoes in Oklahoma. They also send billions of foreign aid all around the world with precious little thanks from the world.

I think it’s a shame that wealthy people are painted with harmful stereotyping and false labels. In Catholic circles we are subjected to a never ending drumbeat about the poor and the marginalized. How about we stop marginalizing people that just happen to have more wealth than us? We should not hate people because they have more wealth than us or that they might be living comfortably.

Many people live in crippling pain and suffering due to various medical problems and disabilities. Who are we to criticise them for the fact that they may be seeking some comfort in their lives?

I wonder how many people here would agree with Judas that the ointment that the lady used on Our Lord’s feet (to make him more comfortable) should have been sold and given to the poor?

Not everyone can renounce this earth and live a bucolic life in a monastery. Some of us have to do the vital work of keeping this world running. Not everyone can be volunteering at a soup kitchen every night. Some of us have marriages and family of our own to take care of. It is wisely said that charity begins at home.

 

[Elizabeth502]

It’s easy for the Pope to rail against “comfortable living”. How many people does he actually know who are living this way? …I’ve checked the Catechism and nowhere does it say that comfortable living or desiring comfort is a sin.

A number of times, I’ve noticed that some of the Pope’s message gets Lost in Translation. Perhaps what he meant was complacent, or complacently comfortable. I believe he’s talking about those focused on the status quo for themselves (that is, remaining comfortable, as the primary activity in their lives), versus those who are comfortable now because they worked strenuously for much of their lives, to get there.

I think I know exactly to what he is referring. I also take you at your word that you might have a very different experience than either Lisa or I, here.

The wealth to which I refer, and which nauseates me, is not simply “wealth,” but the attitude that comes with it. It is a syndrome in my region: it comes with a high level of education and an expectation that one has “made it” through some kind of Divine Right, and the assumption that the lifestyle that goes with that comfort is due you, permanently, and that it is perfectly moral to devote the rest of your life to maintaining that lifestyle at all costs to your soul. The money, per se, seems less important to these people than having “arrived” at a lifestyle threshold, which then identifies them as somehow being superior to others.

If one is subconsciously assessing oneself as superior to others, there will also be less of an impulse to look at the needy in a humble and compassionate manner. So one has the dual drive: maintenance of the wealth (for its end result of lifestyle) and maintenance of superior status which separates one from others.

I have met other educated people, who are incidentally wealthy, who do not resemble the “madness” of the crowd to which I refer. I have also met people who are wealthy despite not much of an education, but a lifetime of hard work. Very often, those people do give generously because they lack the entitlement complex described above and they see others as more like themselves: all working hard, some with smarter business sense, some with better opportunities to maximize those, some with both.

I have also met those with inherited wealth, who are understated about their lifestyle and similarly generous with the have-nots.

I do not think the Pope is referring to the above two paragraphs but to those for whom acquisition is a 24/7/365 endeavor.

I suspect those people who are living comfortably are a tiny minority in this world.

Globally, that is probably true, but in certain regions in the U.S., one can go and find 50+% of people living in the kind of comfort I referred to at the top. That is a very large percentage, and such a percentage also distorts perception. This magnifies the problem, because for them, there’s an illusion that such wealth is the norm, and thus they are merely “average.”

 

[Cwoosley]

Dear Elizabeth502,
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Our wasteful, entitled lifestyle is on a continuum. There is room for all of us to improve.
Pope Francis leads and inspires by example. We need to listen to our pope without first raising our defenses. He’s not speaking out in order to take something away from us and give it to someone poorer. Instead, he is encouraging us to lead fuller, more joyful, more Christlike lives.
For my part I try to avoid food waste by first eating what is perishable. I avoid buying disposables–by definition we are throwing money away when we purchase them! For example, I use rags made from worn clothing–haven’t bought paper towels in decades. PS: cloth is stronger and more absorbent than paper. I do not shop recreationally. The time saved can be spent to help my neighbor. I have devoted an afternoon a week to mending–clothes, backpacks, bedrolls–at the homeless shelter. I make quilts for the Salvatorians to deliver all over the world. Still working on limiting TV time, buying “wants”, and so much more. Moving up the continuum to a better way of life, with Pope Francis to inspire me.
:hug3:

 

[LisaA]

A number of times, I’ve noticed that some of the Pope’s message gets Lost in Translation. Perhaps what he meant was complacent, or complacently comfortable. I believe he’s talking about those focused on the status quo for themselves (that is, remaining comfortable, as the primary activity in their lives), versus those who are comfortable now because they worked strenuously for much of their lives, to get there.

I think I know exactly to what he is referring. I also take you at your word that you might have a very different experience than either Lisa or I, here.

I do not think the Pope is referring to the above two paragraphs but to those for whom acquisition is a 24/7/365 endeavor.

Globally, that is probably true, but in certain regions in the U.S., one can go and find 50+% of people living in the kind of comfort I referred to at the top. That is a very large percentage, and such a percentage also distorts perception. This magnifies the problem, because for them, there’s an illusion that such wealth is the norm, and thus they are merely “average.”

Clipped part of the post to weigh in as well. I know I’m always nervous about what could (erroneously I believe) be taken as assent for socialistic or redistributive philosophies by clergy. I think Pope Francis focus on the poor, on the huge gaps particularly in some countries, is sometimes “lost in translation.” On another thread we’re discussing the Pope’s comments on “unbridled capitalism.” It’s easy to see the attack on capitalism or conversely a socialist defense without taking the words in proper context, including the modifier “unbridled.”

In all I go back to C.S. Lewis whose comment that virtually all sins stem from worshipping false gods. Having money isn’t the sin, but worshipping money, using it for evil and not for good, and ignorance of the plight of those around you is the sin. I THINK that’s what Pope Francis speaks of here.

Particularly as Elizbeth notes, in some communities what would be lavish living is merely average. Those living in such comparative splendor are often not so much selfish and evil as ignorant. We become too comfortable living in our suburban enclaves where everyone has two cars and three TV sets and don’t see others literally hoping the budget stretches to put food on the table.

To use a cliche, we do need to get out of our comfort zone. Although I’ve spent my life without experiencing dire poverty (frugality maybe particularly as a college student) I wasn’t aware of the conditions at migrant camps until I got involved with my then church’s outreach program. Getting more people to experience the lives of those on the margins has a greater impact than reading about it or seeing a glossy brochure on some charity.

Lisa

 

[Elizabeth502]

Particularly as Elizbeth notes, in some communities what would be lavish living is merely average. Those living in such comparative splendor are often not so much selfish and evil as ignorant.

But I think it’s willful ignorance. Remember, those communities are the highly-educated, even “over”-educated ones. I think, rather, it has to do with your connecting sentence,

We become too comfortable living in our suburban enclaves where everyone has two cars and three TV sets and don’t see others literally hoping the budget stretches to put food on the table.

And I think it’s far worse than those numbers. As I said earlier somewhere on CAF, it’s the drive to have the newst everything: newest computer system, latest-fashion-furniture, latest HDTV/screen technology, latest-model car(s), etc. That is all part of the disposable/ wasteful culture. Yes, the business world contributes to that “obsolescence,” but most people are willing conspirators. We do not have ultimate control against deliberate obsolescence, but we have degrees of control over that. Also (more importantly to me), business people of conscience can start companies which refuse to contribute to such profligate waste.

Recently I complained to a cosmetic company I patronize, because they had eliminated two of their products which weren’t over-the-top-high-sellers, but they were excellent products. (They did admit, at a weak moment, after my persistence, that they have received other complaints about discontinuance of products.) I told them flat out that I was so disappointed in their policy that I now refuse to patronize them at all. More people need to do this kind of thing, and to mean it.

 

[Hamlet123]

As someone who lives in a ridiculously privileged area (by world standards), I cannot agree more with the Holy Father, in terms of what an attachment to material comforts produces. I’d say easily, conservatively, 40% of the population in my area are over-privileged, meaning that they have money to burn. What I see is inoculation from the realities of those who lack even the basics – never mind the comforts. What I see in their behavior is entitlement out of control, to the point at which their pleasures take priority over laws, regulations, common courtesy, and a sense of even local community. I see people completely transformed by their wealth, to the point at which they identify with their possessions and their ability to purchase whatever they want. It eliminates a sense of proportion and numbs people from the realities outside their exaggerated comfort zones.

And I’m not talking about the super-wealthy here – the Bloombergs,the Ellisons, the Gates, or celebrities in arts and sports. I’m talking just about upper-middle-class people and their extravagant lifestyles when they make those their priority. A very large percentage of them become consumed by these pursuits.

“they” “they” “they” “they”
Judge not that ye not be judged. You have no idea of their heart. Let God do that. This proclamation is for us - us - me privately. As a ressult of it, I realized I am overly connected to things (a violation of the 1st commandment). But I can not nor I am to judge others. I can tell you when one buys stuff, others get paid and proverty is less likely.

PovertyCure.org