Pope weighing changes in Novus Ordo

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Sepharad said:
OK, I don’t know why I feel this way, I’m not Catholic or Protestant, but…the image of the priest raising the host with one hand says, “Protestant” to me. Why is that??

Is it because I have seen Tridentine Masses in the past, where the priest uses both hands (as well as great reverence, I might add)…and the idea of using only one hand just seems disrespectful? (Please don’t jump on me, I don’t know why I feel this way, I just do!)
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You also agree with me. … Alrite… yes, me too, it just seems disrespectful… and i also don’t know why i feel this way…
👍
 
Aramis said:
If the rumor is true, and the Roman church proceeds to delete the vernacular, many of the Eastern Churches will still provide liturgies in the vernacular, as has been the way in the Eastern Churches since the earliest years of the Church.

People need to understand, most especially the Credo & Confeitor, when they profess & confess.

This could be exactly what the eastern churches need for true revitalization! 👍
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Why would using Latin for one prayer cause people not to understand? Even if the whole OF Mass were changed to Latin, people would not just magically forget what was going on. As for those who were born or who converted after such a change (if it actually takes place), they would simply have to learn just like anyone who is new to anything. I don’t think it would be a problem at all.
 
Spiller said:
A “better” Church?

Impossible.
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Being a medievalist, I’m a little ignorant when it comes to Trent and Pius V and a lot of issues discussed on this forum. The Church being in a sad state, however, is something I’m very familiar with. There have been several periods in which the Church in various nations (and even nearly the whole of the West) has degenerated, only to be renewed later. This is not my opinion, it’s historical fact. The Church can always be improved.
 
Fuerza said:
Why would using Latin for one prayer cause people not to understand? Even if the whole OF Mass were changed to Latin, people would not just magically forget what was going on. As for those who were born or who converted after such a change (if it actually takes place), they would simply have to learn just like anyone who is new to anything. I don’t think it would be a problem at all.
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True. It’s not hard to learn in Latin, and we can always say it in our heads in English if the Latin ends up being some kind of stumbling block (thought it shouldn’t. Plenty of peasant children learned it in the 19th Century).
 
PrayforMallory said:
True. It’s not hard to learn in Latin, and we can always say it in our heads in English if the Latin ends up being some kind of stumbling block (thought it shouldn’t. Plenty of peasant children learned it in the 19th Century).
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Did they “understand” it, or were they just reciting words from rote memory?

If we’re going to say it in English in our heads, we might as well just stick to the vernacular and use that energy for something else.
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
I agree that it is not good to focus entirely on what is wrong. But it is just as bad to ignore it, and never try to make it better.

Some of the Slavic Churches did, yes, and it it still used, probably with more frequency than Latin in the average Catholic diocese. But not all Orthodox churches use Slavonic. Many use Greek, and some middle eastern churhces use syriac or arabic. The Orthodox Churches have always been more open to worship in the vernacular.

That isn’t true at all. Jesus Christ is mentioned MANY times throughout the entire mass. Sometimes by name, Jesus Christ, sometimes by another title. Just a few instances from the Ordinary Form:

Additionally, of course, is all of the “In the name of…the son”'s

Greeting: P: The grace of **our Lord Jesus Christ **and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Kyrie: Christ, have mercy. R: Christ, have mercy.

The Gloria: For you alone are the Holy One, you alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. Amen.

before the Gospel: R: Praise to you,** Lord Jesus Christ**.

from the Creed: We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father…

Often, the response to the Petitions is “**Christ **have mercy”

Offeratory: By the mystery of this water and wine may we come to share in the divinity of Christ, who humbled himself to share in our humanity

Canon: We come to you, Father, with praise and thanksgiving, Through Jesus Christ your Son. Through him we ask you to accept and bless (+) these gifts we offer you in sacrifice

Communicantes: In union with the whole Church we honour Mary, the ever-virgin mother of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

Quam Oblationem: Let it become for us the body and blood of Jesus Christ, your only Son, our Lord.

Mystery of Faith: **Christ **has died, **Christ **is risen, **Christ **will come again. OR: R: Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life, Lord Jesus, come in glory. OR: R: When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, Lord Jesus, until you come in glory.

Consecration of the Wine: Father, we celebrate the memory of Christ, your son.

Consecration of the Wine: Then, as we receive from this altar the sacred body and blood of your Son, let us be filled with every grace and blessing. (Through Christ our Lord. Amen.)

the Lord’s prayer: as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ…Lord, Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles…May this mingling of the body and blood of our **Lord Jesus Christ **bring eternal life to us who receive it.

the Agnus Dei: Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: grant us peace. … Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, by the will of the Father and the work of the Holy Spirit your death brought life to the world … This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper.

And many more!
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See, this is the problem I have with traditionals, They seem to focus on what they THINK is wrong to the exclusion of anything else. They evidently are NOT listening to the Mass if they NEVER hear the name of Jesus. (Too absorbed with finding fault, I guess)🤷

Also I would like to know WHERE or WHAT source this rumor came from. If the Latin mass comes back totally, then what will the excuses be then to not be in full communion.

When and IF it does, I hope you traditionalist will realized you have banded together and now it is YOU that is running the church. Whatever happened to the tradition of letting the Pope do his job.🤷
 
Sepharad said:
This sounds like very good news!

As a non-Catholic who has always had a great respect for tradition in religion (any religion!), and also a great love for the Latin language as well, I had hoped that Cardinal Ratzinger would be named Pope, partly because I felt if any man could or would try to restore some of “the old ways” to Catholicism, including more Latin, it would be him.

What else can I say but Deo gratias! 👍
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Why would a “non-Catholic” even care?🤷
 
Auntie_M said:
See, this is the problem I have with traditionals, They seem to focus on what they THINK is wrong to the exclusion of anything else. They evidently are NOT listening to the Mass if they NEVER hear the name of Jesus. (Too absorbed with finding fault, I guess)🤷

Also I would like to know WHERE or WHAT source this rumor came from. If the Latin mass comes back totally, then what will the excuses be then to not be in full communion.

When and IF it does, I hope you traditionalist will realized you have banded together and now it is YOU that is running the church. Whatever happened to the tradition of letting the Pope do his job.🤷
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The Church is not a democracy, but don’t tell the traditionalist crowd. They think that a return of the SSPX is going to make Vatican II null and void.
 
jedi said:
your parish priest also elevates the host and cup with one hand… oh my… meaning lot of priest are doing this. i question myself, what’s wrong with Vatican2??? God bless the Pope Ben16. for he who bring back the Tradition to us…

To all the priest please see this drawing: (2 hands)
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Another FALSE rumor. I travel ALOT and have NEVER seen the Host elevated with only one hand. Where are some people coming from?🤷
 
Hey, I guess everyone has heard the rumor about the priest dancing a jig while coming down the isle at the beginning of mass?!🤷
 
Auntie_M said:
Why would a “non-Catholic” even care?🤷
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Because some of us non-Catholics have family members who are Catholic, and who lived through “the changes”…so some of us non-Catholics feel good for those family members who might no longer have to go to motel rooms and faraway chapels for the TLM.
 
Auntie_M said:
Also I would like to know WHERE or WHAT source this rumor came from. If the Latin mass comes back totally, then what will the excuses be then to not be in full communion.

When and IF it does, I hope you traditionalist will realized you have banded together and now it is YOU that is running the church. Whatever happened to the tradition of letting the Pope do his job.🤷
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Hello auntie, the source came from Rome or the Pope!!!, auntie.
please click the link auntie.
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=59474

Ok auntie the Pope is doing his job to reconciliation with traditionalist auntie. And our Pope love tradition also auntie. So let us pray together auntie.
God bless you auntie.
 
Auntie_M said:
Why would a “non-Catholic” even care?🤷
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Hello auntie, you again. Because Catholic is universal. maybe he love Jesus also auntie. or maybe he love the TLM masses more than a Catholic, auntie or maybe he will convert to Catholic one day auntie.

God bless you auntie…
 
jedi said:
Hello auntie, you again. Because Catholic is universal. maybe he love Jesus also auntie. or maybe he love the TLM masses more than a Catholic, auntie or maybe he will convert to Catholic one day auntie.

God bless you auntie…
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And, people call ME sarcastic…:rolleyes:
 
Auntie_M said:
Another FALSE rumor. I travel ALOT and have NEVER seen the Host elevated with only one hand. Where are some people coming from?🤷
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Hello auntie, oh you again auntie. No, is not FALSE rumors auntie. Do you see the reply auntie??? do you think i make FALSE rumours to the HOST??? no auntie. I know You travel a lot auntie, i know u r rich people auntie but still not enough auntie. The world is too big auntie.
next time i try to send photo to you ok auntie…: 🙂

God Bless you again auntie…
 
jedi said:
Hello auntie, you again. Because Catholic is universal. maybe he love Jesus also auntie. or maybe he love the TLM masses more than a Catholic, auntie or maybe he will convert to Catholic one day auntie.

God bless you auntie…
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Wrong on all counts. 🙂 I just happen to love TRADITION in religion, no matter what religion it is. I belong to perhaps the most traditional wing of my own religion, in fact (Judaism). I know how I’d feel if liberals came in and tried to change the way we have done things for 3,500 years, so I can relate to the traditionalist Catholic plight on that level, also.

I also have half my family that is Catholic, and they survived the 1970s when their church made all these changes…I am happy for them that they may get to live to see things restored somewhat.
 
Sepharad said:
Wrong on all counts. 🙂 I just happen to love TRADITION in religion, no matter what religion it is. I belong to perhaps the most traditional wing of my own religion, in fact (Judaism). I know how I’d feel if liberals came in and tried to change the way we have done things for 3,500 years, so I can relate to the traditionalist Catholic plight on that level, also.

I also have half my family that is Catholic, and they survived the 1970s when their church made all these changes…I am happy for them that they may get to live to see things restored somewhat.
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Ok rabbi, i know u r rabbi already…🙂 …
Ok rabbi, may God bless you also… and bless half of your family who is Catholic. God bless them too…
 
jedi said:
Ok rabbi, i know u r rabbi already…🙂 …
Ok rabbi, may God bless you also… and bless half of your family who is Catholic. God bless them too…
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I’m not a rabbi, for one, I’m female. 🙂 But thanks anyway!
 
jedi said:
Hello auntie, the source came from Rome or the Pope!!!, auntie.
please click the link auntie.
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=59474

Ok auntie the Pope is doing his job to reconciliation with traditionalist auntie. And our Pope love tradition also auntie. So let us pray together auntie.
God bless you auntie.
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Dear, If you had read the entire thing, you would have realized that the CWN was NOT able toconfirm the accuracy of the “Panorama” report brought by the New Liturgical Movement web site.

I did, however, go straight to the “actual” website, The Vatican, and they don’t seem to have anything of this sort.

You cannot believe these biased “websites”. they will print anything in their favor, even it has no basis.:rolleyes:
 
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