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thunderballs75
Guest
It’s nice to hear. But this isn’t too groundbreaking apparently, since this is from February. If it would have had any real effect, we would have seen it or heard something about it by now.
I continue to pray for the traditional liturgy and for reverence towards the Most Blessed Sacrament.
I continue to pray for the traditional liturgy and for reverence towards the Most Blessed Sacrament.
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giuseppeTO
Guest
I would love to see the Pope offer a Solemn Pontifical High Mass in the EF.
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thunderballs75
Guest
Oremus.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
There’s nothing new about this.
It’s been the custom that those receiving Communion from the Pope should do so kneeling and on the tongue for well over a year now.
I would like to see him publicly liturgize not only in the EF, but in ALL the classical liturgies, Eastern and Western, of the Church.
I wonder who would like to see him liturgize in Slavonic, as was the practice in certain dioceses in Croatia before Vatican 2? I’d like to see this as well.
It’s been the custom that those receiving Communion from the Pope should do so kneeling and on the tongue for well over a year now.
I would like to see him publicly liturgize not only in the EF, but in ALL the classical liturgies, Eastern and Western, of the Church.
I wonder who would like to see him liturgize in Slavonic, as was the practice in certain dioceses in Croatia before Vatican 2? I’d like to see this as well.
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Lainey63
Guest
Isn’t the Fatima Crusader associated with Fr Gruner? Wasn’t he suspended from his priestly duties? How about information from a source that is in full communion of Rome? I believe there was another post regarding this very same issue & it was an article from a sede vacanist with no facts to back up his statements…I will search & post.
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giuseppeTO
Guest
Lainey,
Benedict XVI is Fr. Gruener’s Pope also. So, unless you are contesting the veracity of the interview, please knock of the polemics. They are really tiresome. If you dispute that the issue is true, please tell us why. Otherwise, please go and haunt another thread.
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Lainey63
Guest
Oh my. I am actually hurt by you being so curt w/me. The sources you choose use for information and fact gathering are questionable at best.
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Jennifer_J
Guest
old news:
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0803381.htm
Fr. Gruner info:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/fr_gruner_old.htm
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0803381.htm
Fr. Gruner info:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/fr_gruner_old.htm
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
While the pope is doing this he has not changed the option. Bishops can decide to allow reception of the Eucharist in the hand.
So this really changes nothing.
So this really changes nothing.
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LindyLou
Guest
As to Communion in the hand vs on the tongue, I am somewhat torn anymore. I started recently going to an EF congregation and the priest who is new there cannot seem to give me Communion without touching my tongue. That has happened only very rarely with other priests. So, if he is touching MY tongue then he must be doing so with others at the Communion rail and with concerns over the HiNi flu < I am sonewhat distressed that he cannot be more careful and may quit attending and go back to the NO parish where I can receive in the hand.
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JReducation
Guest
Last night I was watching a program on EWTN and this question came up. Fr. Mitch Pacwa clarified this for the audience. He explained that the Holy Father has prescribed communion on the tongue kneeling only for papal masses. It is not a universal rule or universally binding.
He also explained that despite the fact that communion in the hand began as an act of disobedience, it was ratified by a papl dispensation and therefore, it is a legitimate way of distributing communion as long as it has the approval of the local bishop.
In cases where the pope celebrates mass outside of his diocese he can and does ask those receiving communion from him, to kneel and receive it on the tongue. In his diocese, everyone must receive on the tongue only when he presides at the mass. Other than that, it is up to the other bishops to make use of the indult or not without the penalty of sin or sacrilege.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
He also explained that despite the fact that communion in the hand began as an act of disobedience, it was ratified by a papl dispensation and therefore, it is a legitimate way of distributing communion as long as it has the approval of the local bishop.
In cases where the pope celebrates mass outside of his diocese he can and does ask those receiving communion from him, to kneel and receive it on the tongue. In his diocese, everyone must receive on the tongue only when he presides at the mass. Other than that, it is up to the other bishops to make use of the indult or not without the penalty of sin or sacrilege.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Lainey63
Guest
Thank you Jennifer. I wanted to come back & read your info but I must go back to haunting other threads now. TTFN… Ta-Ta-For-Now.
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sancte_joseph
Guest
That would be nice! To see all the Traditional Liturgies would show how the Church truly is Catholic… in the old sense of the word meaning Universal…, spreading across many nations… and traditions
But I think having the pope learn (many) liturgy would be difficult… but having him be in attendance while WELL TRAINED priests celebrated them… would be good…
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JReducation
Guest
The only issue with this is that it is not customary for a priest in higher orders to attend a mass celebrated by a priest in lower orders. The custom is that the priest in higher orders preside at the mass.
It can be done. The priest in higher orders can sit to the side in the sanctuary, but it is not the usual.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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sancte_joseph
Guest
Well Brother JR, OSFThe only issue with this is that it is not customary for a priest in higher orders to attend a mass celebrated by a priest in lower orders. The custom is that the priest in higher orders preside at the mass.
It can be done. The priest in higher orders can sit to the side in the sanctuary, but it is not the usual.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
he’s the pope
can’t he do whatever he wants… okay not WHATEVER… but you know what i mean.
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JReducation
Guest
Don’t get me wrong, this is allowed by law. It’s not customary. I’m not sure that his liturgical staff would allow it. Popes employ a team of people for different areas and they help make sure that everything that a pope does is within the parameters of accepted protocol. That’s one reason why popes don’t celebrate Divine Liturgy. Popes are the bishops of Rome. Rome is THE Latin see. That’s another reason why he does not celebrate the EF in public. It is not the ordinary form of the mass for the Latin Church. As the universal bishop of Rome, he owes it to his Church, the diocese of Rome, to celebrate liturgy consistently with what is ordinary for the Roman people.Well Brother JR, OSF
he’s the pope
This gets into that whole area of the overlap between being the Pontiff of the universal Church and the bishop of Rome. There many be other changes coming in the future that would make this more feasible, since the pope has given up the title of Patriarch of the West. This relieves him of his responsibilities to the Western Church in certain areas of ministry and liturgy.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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ProVobis
Guest
He hasn’t changed the option but he hopes someone will follow his example. Or maybe he’s just doing it for the heck of it, what do you think?
I could only imagine the outcry if he attempted to suppress CIH.
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Lainey63
Guest
I think a whole generation has been brought up with CIH I’m guessing that means Communion in the hand. I just can’t receive in the hand…I tried it twice…
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JReducation
Guest
The explanation that Father Pacwa gave was rather logical. He said thar reception of communion on the tongue and on your knees during a papal mass is part of a tradition that has never changed. Even during the papacy of the Post Vatican II popes, communion from the pope has always been on the tongue. What had happened was that when the Holy Father traveled outside of the Vatican, the people who were selected to receive communion from him did so standing. This was not part of the custom. This happened very spontaneously. The Holy Father has decided to get back to the custom of receiving communion from the Pontif on the knees and on the tongue.
However, if you attend a papal mass and receive communion from another minister, you need not follow this protocol. The Holy Father does not expect this. It is upt to the communicant. That being said, the communicant must follow the rules of the local bishop.
Fr. Pacwa made it quite clear that the Pontif does not overrule or ignore the rules of the local bishops when he visits other dioceses. The rule of communion on the knees and in the mouth are for the reception of communion from him at papal masses. Even in the Archdiocese of Rome, receiving communion on the hand and standing is allowed. The local bishop is the Pope.
This rule does not apply to those churches in Rome that are part of another bishop’s see. Many bishops have a church in the city of Rome. Those churches are not part of the Archdiocese of Rome. They fall under the jurisdiction of their bishop. Therefore, communion is distributed according to the wishes of the Ordinary of that particular church or cathedral.
It only gets more confusing as you go along. Because there are also rules that apply to chapels and oratories run by exempt religious orders where the Major Superior is the Ordinary, not the bishop and to Patriarchates such as Jerusalem, where there is a diocese and a patriarchate. The rules of the patriarchate trump the rules of the diocese. In Jerusalem you must receive communion on the tongue. I’m not sure if you have to kneel. When I’ve been there I’ve attended mass at the Franciscan houses and the ordinary there is the Provincial. We receive according to the directives of the Provincial superior for each house. There are seven Franciscan Provincial Superiors in Jerusalem. Each set of friaries have different customs.
Ahhhhhhh, to be Catholic, the unity in diversity is what makes us so very special.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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