P
ProVobis
Guest
Hopefully the results will be different than what happened after the Tower of Babel.
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J
JReducation
Guest
Oh I thnk so. The Church has always been very diverse and yet remains one. Just look at the fact that we have so many Churches that make up THE Church. We have so many religious orders, congregations, secular institutes, societies of apostolic life, secular orders, clerical societies and associations of evangelical life within the Latin Church. And so many cultures and diverse generations . . . . etc.Hopefully the results will be different than what happened after the Tower of Babel.
As long as we are united in sacrament, doctrine and morals, the other details make us richer and help us to think about the Church and her place in the world.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
M
m134e5
Guest
Explain the difficulty to the priest. He gives communion all the time, and should know how to do it right (especially for the Tridentine Mass!). Also, be sure to open your mouth enough, and stick your tongue out far enough when you receive the Sacrament.
J
JReducation
Guest
That’s the reason why some dioceses have temporarilly suspended communion on the tongue, even for the EF mass, because of the health risk.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
The only issue with this is that it is not customary for a priest in higher orders to attend a mass celebrated by a priest in lower orders. The custom is that the priest in higher orders preside at the mass.
Priests are priests. The phrase “priest in higher/lower orders” is as meaningless as "underwear for the deaf."
Priests are priests. The phrase “priest in higher/lower orders” is as meaningless as "underwear for the deaf."
S
sancte_joseph
Guest
bpbasilphx,
Maybe that’s in the Orthodox tradition… I’ve heard the phrase “first among equals” in Orthodox tradition…
But I guess in the Roman Tradition there is a higher and lower order…
J
JReducation
Guest
I said the exact same thing in post 15.
There you have it folks, from an Orthodox bishop and a Latin Rite Catholic Franciscan. This is not the tradition of the Church. We will have to accept that the Pope will celebrate the Latin Rite mass in the Ordinary Form, because it is the form of the Universal Church, as the word properly says, it is the ORDINARY form. Another way of saying it is, it is the norm.
If you ask Fra. Rainieri Cantalamessa, OFM Cap, the Pope’s theologian and preacher, he will tell you the same thing. It should not be done. It is not the custom. He would advise the Holy Father against it.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
J
JReducation
Guest
I said the exact same thing in post 15.
There you have it folks, from an Orthodox bishop and a Latin Rite Catholic Franciscan. This is not the tradition of the Church. We will have to accept that the Pope will celebrate the Latin Rite mass in the Ordinary Form, because it is the form of the Universal Church, as the word properly says, it is the ORDINARY form. Another way of saying it is, it is the norm.
If you ask Fra. Rainieri Cantalamessa, OFM Cap, the Pope’s theologian and preacher, he will tell you the same thing. It should not be done. It is not the custom. He would advise the Holy Father against it.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
J
JReducation
Guest
The orders to which the good bishop is referring to are the orders in the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
From top to bottom:
Bishop
Presbyter
Deacon
The Pope is a bishop. He is also the Pontif. He is also the Vicar of Christ. Therefore, he outranks every other cleric in the Church. If were to attend mass, rather than preside at it, it would be contrary to custom.
The custom is the the highest ranking priest presides at the mass.
That’s what we mean by a priest of a higher order.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
The Ordinary Form of the Mass is the form of the Latin Catholic Church, not the Universal Church. Each of the Church’s that make up the Universal Church has its own ordinary form of the Eucharistic Sacrifice.
H
hansard
Guest
In this part of the world, only 15% of those claiming to be Catholic actually attend church regularly. (National Church Life Survey, 2001)
The generation or two of people brought up to receive Communion in the hand would be further driven away by any move to ban the practice. They’re not attending now, for the most part, so Communion on the tongue would be another reason to stop attending mass, or to stop going to communion.
Tradition and protocol are not everything. There was a time when a layperson would not have been able to distribute communion, and a time when receiving the wine was far more commonplace.
Hand…tongue…horses for courses, I reckon.
Let it be.
The generation or two of people brought up to receive Communion in the hand would be further driven away by any move to ban the practice. They’re not attending now, for the most part, so Communion on the tongue would be another reason to stop attending mass, or to stop going to communion.
Tradition and protocol are not everything. There was a time when a layperson would not have been able to distribute communion, and a time when receiving the wine was far more commonplace.
Hand…tongue…horses for courses, I reckon.
Let it be.
D
davinpa
Guest
Well, recently in my diocese they disallow communion on the tounge due to H1N1 virus. They also do other things like emptying the holy water fonts, no handshakes in sign of peace, and those sort of things.
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FanChan
Guest
I recently spent a week in Las Vegas, which is a diocese that has temporarily nixed communion on the tongue due to the H1N1 virus, along with handshakes at the sign of peace. I grew up receiving in the hand, but about four years ago made the decision to begin receiving only on the tongue (and shortly after that, since receiving on the tongue was out of respect, it only followed that I’d be driven to receive while on my knees). Now, the thought of receiving in the hand actually made me shudder a bit, but I had no choice, and therefor had to seek a solution.
Luckily, only a few months prior to this, I’d witnessed a co-presiding priest showing great reverence for his hand after having held the Eucharist in his palm. He spent the better part of the time between the consecration and the distribution studying his hand, and every so often wiping his palm with his finger and consuming whatever fragment he’d managed to wipe up.
Recalling that, I was able to receive in the hand with the same reverence I employ when kneeling and receiving on the tongue. I think it’s important for anyone who receives on the hand not to just brush their hands off and tuck them into their pockets after receiving. Cradle that hand back to the pew, and once there, make sure there’s nothing left of the Eucharist on your hand, for even the tiniest fragment contains the entire Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, and every last fragment must be consumed.
Luckily, only a few months prior to this, I’d witnessed a co-presiding priest showing great reverence for his hand after having held the Eucharist in his palm. He spent the better part of the time between the consecration and the distribution studying his hand, and every so often wiping his palm with his finger and consuming whatever fragment he’d managed to wipe up.
Recalling that, I was able to receive in the hand with the same reverence I employ when kneeling and receiving on the tongue. I think it’s important for anyone who receives on the hand not to just brush their hands off and tuck them into their pockets after receiving. Cradle that hand back to the pew, and once there, make sure there’s nothing left of the Eucharist on your hand, for even the tiniest fragment contains the entire Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, and every last fragment must be consumed.
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Spiritoftruth
Guest
…hand, mouth, on your knees, sitting down, standing up… i don’t see the issue… i would wager if the last supper is anything like the traditional picture we all grew up with, Jesus broke loaves of bread and it was passed down the table by hand and they were sitting down… why does there have to be an issue? IMHO…Peace:thumbsup:
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Walking_Home
Guest
Gee --now this is impressive. Were you there or do you have the ability to see into the past --all that actually happen during the Last Supper.
O
Onegin
Guest
Mmm… right. And, of course, being on the same level as Jesus (we’re all equal, right?) we should just go all casual on that one.
Righto.
J
JReducation
Guest
No, no, no. I didn’t mean to imply that the Eastern do not have its own normative liturgy. I was thinking that the OF of the Latin Rite has become the norm of he universal Church in that it has surpassed all the other forms in numbers.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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