Pope's authority to free souls from Purgatory

[cmisip]

This question is really with regards to the Jubilee Year of Mercy. Having completed the Vatican Jubilee Year of Mercy Pilgrimage and having read the materials provided by the Vatican to the Pilgrims, I have from those and from other sources inferred that the indulgence earned is transferable to your loved ones in Purgatory such that they may be immediately freed and be able to enter heaven. I think the Pope’s authority to establish the Indulgence and the conditions to receive the indulgence comes forth from the verse in the Bible “What you bind on earth, will be bound in heaven…”. The Pope’s authority to establish the Indulgence cannot logically depend on the fulfilment of the condition. The condition can be anything trivial really, or none at all if he so wishes it. It does not diminish the promise of the validity of the Indulgence if he sets forth no condition and just offers it freely. But the condition is necessary for us on Earth, as we must not waiver from our faith. But the souls in purgatory to whom we transfer (if we so choose) the plenary indulgence we earn with the satisfaction of the Jubilee year of mercy conditions, are really on their way to heaven. It seems that the authority that allowed the establishment of the plenary indulgence for us on earth also could allow the indulgence “for free” for those souls in Purgatory. If this is true, can the Pope use this authority to free the souls from Purgatory directly without us having to earn it for them? I for one and I am sure a lot of us would find peace in the knowledge that our loved ones have moved on to heaven.

Thank You Very Much.
I hope this post reaches the forum. This is my third attempt at posting in Catholic Forums and my first two posts just never showed up.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

This question is really with regards to the Jubilee Year of Mercy. Having completed the Vatican Jubilee Year of Mercy Pilgrimage and having read the materials provided by the Vatican to the Pilgrims, I have from those and from other sources inferred that the indulgence earned is transferable to your loved ones in Purgatory such that they may be immediately freed and be able to enter heaven. I think the Pope’s authority to establish the Indulgence and the conditions to receive the indulgence comes forth from the verse in the Bible “What you bind on earth, will be bound in heaven…”. The Pope’s authority to establish the Indulgence cannot logically depend on the fulfilment of the condition. The condition can be anything trivial really, or none at all if he so wishes it. It does not diminish the promise of the validity of the Indulgence if he sets forth no condition and just offers it freely. But the condition is necessary for us on Earth, as we must not waiver from our faith. But the souls in purgatory to whom we transfer (if we so choose) the plenary indulgence we earn with the satisfaction of the Jubilee year of mercy conditions, are really on their way to heaven. It seems that the authority that allowed the establishment of the plenary indulgence for us on earth also could allow the indulgence “for free” for those souls in Purgatory. If this is true, can the Pope use this authority to free the souls from Purgatory directly without us having to earn it for them? I for one and I am sure a lot of us would find peace in the knowledge that our loved ones have moved on to heaven.

Thank You Very Much.
I hope this post reaches the forum. This is my third attempt at posting in Catholic Forums and my first two posts just never showed up.

I’m sorry I don’t know at all. But I am currious to see what some answers are. I faithfully pray for those in purgatory. But the idea of indulgences transferred to them has always intrigued me.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Have you read, perchance, the Apostolic Constitution that Blessed Paul VI promulgated when he reformed Indulgences at the time of the Council? You might find it helpful.

w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_01011967_indulgentiarum-doctrina.html

You might also find the writings of Saint Catherine of Genoa concerning purgatory to be helpful.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

The Holy Souls are not able to gain indulgences for themselves any longer, they must be applied to them by us on earth. The Holy Father can’t set people free from Purgatory by simply giving them “free” plenary indulgences.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The Holy Souls are not able to gain indulgences for themselves any longer, they must be applied to them by us on earth. The Holy Father can’t set people free from Purgatory by simply giving them “free” plenary indulgences.

I don’t think the op is saying the pope can grant souls in purgatory indulgences. Only that we on earth can indeed obtain indulgences and we can either apply them to ourselves ( something I do) or apply them to souls in purgatory. So by offering more indulgences on earth then the pope could be acting third party in setting souls free.

Honestly the whole economy of indulgences confuses me (and most modern Catholics)

 

[Christina79]

I want to follow this thread too. I’m confused as to how to even get a plenary indulgence. I’ve seen a couple of different lists and I’m pretty new to this being a recent convert. I’m feeling a little pressured to figure it out before this year is up and I miss out on getting them for my loved ones. This really confused me enough just coming from a Protestant background.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

I don’t think the op is saying the pope can grant souls in purgatory indulgences. Only that we on earth can indeed obtain indulgences and we can either apply them to ourselves ( something I do) or apply them to souls in purgatory. So by offering more indulgences on earth then the pope could be acting third party in setting souls free.

Honestly the whole economy of indulgences confuses me (and most modern Catholics)

The original poster said, “It seems that the authority that allowed the establishment of the plenary indulgence for us on earth also could allow the indulgence “for free” for those souls in Purgatory. If this is true, can the Pope use this authority to free the souls from Purgatory directly without us having to earn it for them?”. The answer to this is no.

Here is the lesson on indulgences from the Baltimore Catechism to help clear up some of your confusion concerning indulgences.

 

[Nelka]

It’s a good question.

 

[quies]

…I’m confused as to how to even get a plenary indulgence. I’ve seen a couple of different lists and I’m pretty new to this…

This might help remove some confusion. This book gives all the requirements and every current indulgence now in effect translated directly from the Vatican Latin into English.

Finally there is a current English translation of Enchiridion Indulgentarium from the Latin. If you live in the United States or need to read in the English language, the approved English translation of the current, fourth edition Enchiridion Indulgentiarum (1999) is published by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) under the title Manual of Indulgences. You can find it at several places on the web along with an e-book and a Kindle version, too.

There are many, many versions of the Manual, Enchiridion, Raccolta, etc. going far back in time, but this is the current. From looking at their picture, even our own C.A. store seems to be carrying the third edition – which has been superseded by the fourth edition…

The above-mentioned book along with this wall calendar will have you graduating summa cum laude in the Indulgences 101 class of 2016! (Tuition is $20 for textbook and $18 for the calendar – plus S&H.)

Gaudeamus igitur! :

Note: The outdated third edition mentioned above (entitled “The Handbook of Indulgences”) is currently on sale at C.A.'s store for $5 here.

 

[cmisip]

Sorry but I am thinking of this in very simplistic terms. If I tell my son that I will pay him 10 dollars if he mows the yard, then if he does not mow the yard, I can still give him 10 dollars if I so choose (because I have money in the bank, and he is a good kid) . The fulfilment or non fulfilment of the condition does not limit my ability to give him 10 dollars ( as it depends on the size of my bank account and my control/authority over it). But of course, I only give him the 10 dollars if he is so deserving ( if he mows the yard ). So I give him 10 dollars since he does in fact mow the yard and he gives it to a friend who needed it more since his friend is jobless. My son said he could earn the 10 dollars again. His friend cannot. What stops me from giving his friend the 10 dollars directly?

As I understand it, the indulgences granted by the Pope are from the “Treasury of the Church” which is infinite and therefore never diminishes. There is enough in that treasury to grant indulgences to free all of mankind (who are deserving, having confessed and repented) and all the souls in Purgatory (who have no sin, but the marks of the sin) and still it would never diminish. The Pope grants us the indulgence we earn for ourselves (over and over in our lifetime) . We can give it to the souls in Purgatory who cant earn it anymore. They can use it like we can, to pay their debt. But why can’t it just be granted to the souls in Purgatory since they are deserving and the treasury is inexhaustible and the authority(ability) to do so exists? It is the same question in the first paragraph.

Thanks for your interest in this topic

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The Holy Souls are not able to gain indulgences for themselves any longer, they must be applied to them by us on earth. The Holy Father can’t set people free from Purgatory by simply giving them “free” plenary indulgences.

The original poster said, “It seems that the authority that allowed the establishment of the plenary indulgence for us on earth also could allow the indulgence “for free” for those souls in Purgatory. If this is true, can the Pope use this authority to free the souls from Purgatory directly without us having to earn it for them?”. The answer to this is no.

Here is the lesson on indulgences from the Baltimore Catechism to help clear up some of your confusion concerning indulgences.

I’m quite familiar with the BC. It did not clear up the confusion.

 

[thistle]

CCC 1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

I’m quite familiar with the BC. It did not clear up the confusion.

What is it about indulgences that confuses you?

 

[kdbueno]

Purgatory allows you to understand free-will. People who are consecrated according to immoral means go to purgatory.

 

[Pug]

Sorry but I am thinking of this in very simplistic terms. If I tell my son that I will pay him 10 dollars if he mows the yard, then if he does not mow the yard, I can still give him 10 dollars if I so choose (because I have money in the bank, and he is a good kid) . The fulfilment or non fulfilment of the condition does not limit my ability to give him 10 dollars ( as it depends on the size of my bank account and my control/authority over it). But of course, I only give him the 10 dollars if he is so deserving ( if he mows the yard ). So I give him 10 dollars since he does in fact mow the yard and he gives it to a friend who needed it more since his friend is jobless. My son said he could earn the 10 dollars again. His friend cannot. What stops me from giving his friend the 10 dollars directly?

As I understand it, the indulgences granted by the Pope are from the “Treasury of the Church” which is infinite and therefore never diminishes. There is enough in that treasury to grant indulgences to free all of mankind (who are deserving, having confessed and repented) and all the souls in Purgatory (who have no sin, but the marks of the sin) and still it would never diminish. The Pope grants us the indulgence we earn for ourselves (over and over in our lifetime) . We can give it to the souls in Purgatory who cant earn it anymore. They can use it like we can, to pay their debt. But why can’t it just be granted to the souls in Purgatory since they are deserving and the treasury is inexhaustible and the authority(ability) to do so exists? It is the same question in the first paragraph.

Thanks for your interest in this topic

You could give your son’s friend $10, but is it not a good thing that your son is willing to mow another lawn, just to help his friend? Don’t we want to encourage such ideas in his head?

Of course, sometimes a parent would do one thing there and sometimes another depending on the child and the circumstances.

I bring it up because the “treasury” is a communion in charity, a thing with the communion of saints. There is a perennial link of charity between both the faithful on earth still and those in Purgatory (and those in heaven, too). For his own reasons, God wants there to be a Purgatory and for us to pray for the souls there, and to give alms for them, and to apply indulgences for them. One could also ask, why does God have us pray for our living friends? Can’t he just do whatever for them without us asking? Yes, but he has asked us to pray for our friends and our enemies, even.

Indulgences seem principally designed to engage charity and prayer and devotion in us.

CCC 1478 …the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity

I suggest 1471 thru 1479 in the CCC (Catechism) for context.

 

[Vico]

This question is really with regards to the Jubilee Year of Mercy. Having completed the Vatican Jubilee Year of Mercy Pilgrimage and having read the materials provided by the Vatican to the Pilgrims, I have from those and from other sources inferred that the indulgence earned is transferable to your loved ones in Purgatory such that they may be immediately freed and be able to enter heaven. I think the Pope’s authority to establish the Indulgence and the conditions to receive the indulgence comes forth from the verse in the Bible “What you bind on earth, will be bound in heaven…”. The Pope’s authority to establish the Indulgence cannot logically depend on the fulfilment of the condition. The condition can be anything trivial really, or none at all if he so wishes it. It does not diminish the promise of the validity of the Indulgence if he sets forth no condition and just offers it freely. But the condition is necessary for us on Earth, as we must not waiver from our faith. But the souls in purgatory to whom we transfer (if we so choose) the plenary indulgence we earn with the satisfaction of the Jubilee year of mercy conditions, are really on their way to heaven. It seems that the authority that allowed the establishment of the plenary indulgence for us on earth also could allow the indulgence “for free” for those souls in Purgatory. If this is true, can the Pope use this authority to free the souls from Purgatory directly without us having to earn it for them? I for one and I am sure a lot of us would find peace in the knowledge that our loved ones have moved on to heaven.

Thank You Very Much.
I hope this post reaches the forum. This is my third attempt at posting in Catholic Forums and my first two posts just never showed up.

Apostolic Constitution, Indulgentarium Doctrina, of His Holiness Pope Paul VI, 1967:

The aim pursued by ecclesiastical authority in granting indulgences is not only that of helping the faithful to expiate the punishment due sin but also that of urging them to perform works of piety, penitence and charity–particularly those which lead to growth in faith and which favor the common good.[39]

And if the faithful offer indulgences in suffrage for the dead, they cultivate charity in an excellent way and while raising their minds to heaven, they bring a wiser order into the things of this world.

 

[cmisip]

My question really is:
Does the Pope have the power/authority to free souls from purgatory?

Thanks

 

[Vico]

My question really is:
Does the Pope have the power/authority to free souls from purgatory?

Thanks

Catholic Enclyopedia:

The distribution of the merits contained in the treasury of the Church is an exercise of authority (potestas iurisdictionis), not of the power conferred by Holy orders (potestas ordinis). Hence the pope, as supreme head of the Church on earth, can grant all kinds of indulgences to any and all of the faithful; and he alone can grant plenary indulgences.
…

According to Catholic doctrine, therefore, the source of indulgences is constituted by the merits of Christ and the saints. This treasury is left to the keeping, not of the individual Christian, but of the Church. Consequently, to make it available for the faithful, there is required an exercise of authority, which alone can determine in what way, on what terms, and to what extent, indulgences may be granted.

Kent, W. (1910). Indulgences. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

Nihil Obstat. June 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York.

 

[Pug]

My question really is:
Does the Pope have the power/authority to free souls from purgatory?

Thanks

The power of indulgences rests upon two things, the power of the keys in granting absolution to people who come to confession, and also upon the doctrine of the communion of saints. The question you ask would be does the Church (the pope and whom he authorises) have jurisdiction over the dead. To my knowledge he does not. The indulgences that are given to the Poor Souls are specifically called “by means of suffrage (intercession)”. This implies is not by the power of the keys, but by the communion of saints.

The best quasi-catechetical level answer I can give you is this quote, which is probably unavailable online:

“The Church has no jurisdiction over the dead in Purgatory”, which is not in some official document or council, but comes from a book by Ludwig Ott called the fundamentals of Catholic dogma from bottom of page 443 to top of page 444. It is clear from the context of his remarks that there remains some discussion over the Latin phrase “per modum suffragii”.

 

[catholic1seeks]

"How many of one’s temporal penalties can be remitted?"

Potentially, all of them. The Church recognizes that Christ and the saints are interested in helping penitents deal with the aftermath of their sins, as indicated by the fact they always pray for us (Heb. 7:25, Rev. 5:8). Fulfilling its role in the administration of temporal penalties, the Church draws upon the rich supply of rewards God chose to bestow on the saints, who pleased him, and on his Son, who pleased him most of all.

The rewards on which the Church draws are infinite because Christ is God, so the rewards he accrued are infinite and never can be exhausted. His rewards alone, apart from the saints’, could remove all temporal penalties from everyone, everywhere. The rewards of the saints are added to Christ’s—not because anything is lacking in his, but because it is fitting that they be united with his rewards as the saints are united with him. Although immense, their rewards are finite, but his are infinite.

"If the Church has the resources to wipe out everyone’s temporal penalties, why doesn’t it do so?"

Because God does not wish this to be done. God himself instituted the pattern of temporal penalties being left behind. They fulfill valid functions, one of them disciplinary. If a child were never disciplined, he would never learn obedience. God disciplines us as his children — “the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives” (Heb. 12:6) — so some temporal penalties must remain.

The Church cannot wipe out, with a stroke of the pen, so to speak, everyone’s temporal punishments because their remission depends on the dispositions of the persons who suffer those temporal punishments. Just as repentance and faith are needed for the remission of eternal penalties, so they are needed for the remission of temporal penalties. Pope Paul VI stated, “Indulgences cannot be gained without a sincere conversion of outlook and unity with God”(*Indulgentarium Doctrina *11). We might say that the degree of remission depends on how well the penitent has learned his lesson.

catholic.com/tracts/myths-about-indulgences

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