Pope's call for interfaith day of prayer provokes debate

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gurneyhalleck1 said:
I agree, Sentry. How can this NOT be a bad thing, this event? Prayer is directed at God. If I’m standing beside someone praying to Vishnu or Shiva, Allah, etc. we are not praying to the same deity by any means. It would be like in ancient Israel King David getting together with the Philistines or Amalekites or Amorites and praying with them for the sake of all getting along and having a peaceful region. Can you imagine Elijah praying with the priests of Baal for the sake of a Rodney King-like “can’t we all just get along” event? I’m blown away by this stuff. Just when I try to put CCC 841 out of my mind with the relativist ecumenical excesses of the catechism, I see this stuff. It’s a killer for me to read this. It makes God generic, vague, a blank check, and affirms to the non-Christian validity within their beliefs and diminishes the need for our “Great Commission.” I’m not a happy camper with this. I hear ya.😦
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I hear you, gurney, and it blows my mind, as it were, also, especially considering the intellectual and theological integrity of this Pope ; nonetheless, while this may be objectively scandalous (in so much as it implies relativism) it is by no means - for a Catholic - an excuse to break Faith or Communion. The Popes have never been impeccable, and Saint Peter’s own example, recorded in Scripture, is one reason for this. Still, the promise was made to him, and our unity was established upon him. A mature and adult Faith can overcome these things - it’s those who are struggling with the Faith who need our support and help when such things happen.

As I said in an earlier post, this is by no means the first time the Church has been in a sad state ; in fact, it arguably has been in sadder states. Let us pray to the Great Popes who reinvigorated discipline, Tradition, and orthodoxy to pray for us to the Lord our God to bestow similar Saints to His Church today.

I admonish you as I admonished others to take heart in the biography of Pope Saint Gregory the VIIth, found on this site, from the 1908 Catholic Encyclopedia.

Pax,
Tim
 
The JW’s who come to the doors love this sort of thing. They bring big photos of the event claiming that the Catholic Church cannot be the true church. It makes defending the Church more difficult.
 
James_Miller said:
The JW’s who come to the doors love this sort of thing. They bring big photos of the event claiming that the Catholic Church cannot be the true church. It makes defending the Church more difficult.
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Produce for them a depiction of Saint Peter breaking bread with the Judaizers and scorning (thus seriously scandalizing - dare I say even breaking the hearts of or even traumatizing) the Gentile converts then present.

Tell them for every Saint Peter there is a Saint Paul, and it was as true then as it is today — in the Catholic Church.

Pax,
Tim
 
I think this is a good idea the Pope has. I would pray with anyone, anyplace, at anytime. Prayer is between me and God not between a certain religion, me and God. If you pray to Allah pray to Allah, if you pray to Budda then pray to Budda, for me I pray to God.
 
Timothy17 said:
Your points being well taken here nonetheless do not absolve you from the scandal of schism.
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Thank you for your concern for my soul, but that is not the topic at hand in this thread or discussion.
I. No one has ever taught or said that the Pope was impeccable.
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I never thought or wrote that anyone had…? (Why mention this?)
II. No Pope has yet got it into his head to declare ex cathedra that interfaith prayer meetings are to be believed in with Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Faith.
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That’s good, since apparently there are more than a few Catholics who have problems with this.
You’re a heart-breaking spectacle, dzheremi. You’re learned and astute and clearly fond of the Truth. All I can admonish is that you prayerfully consider Our Lord’s own prayer for unity, “that they may all be one.”
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Some incredibly strange folks representing “Living Stream Ministries” (an obscure Protestant sect I had the misfortune of running into in Oregon) made that exact same argument to me when trying to get me to join their organization. So I will tell you a modified version of what I told them:

No one prays more fervently for the union of all Christians than the Catholics and the Orthodox. But true unity of the type that is meaningful and lasting cannot be mere corporeal unity under an earthly representative. It must be based on something deeper, theologically sound, well-considered and reasonable. To be perfectly honest with you, this event, previous events in a similar vein, and other stances and actions undertaken by Catholic popes past and present do nothing but confirm to me that it is impossible to have this type of unity with those in the Catholic communion, because the leadership is itself not serious, theologically sound, grounded, or reasonable.

I have met more than a few Catholics who I would still consider perfectly orthodox, but as they are intimately tied to an inherently unorthodox church, I can’t see myself sharing communion with them while they remain there. I have removed myself from communion with the Catholic Church for very substantial, historically and spiritually pertinent reasons, and will, God willing, hopefully sooner rather than later come into communion with a church that holds the faith of the apostles, rather than only an apostolic foundation.

The Bible tells us not to be unevenly yoked with unbelievers. I can’t tell what the Roman Pope must make of that warning, to be staging an event such as this one. I repudiate it not because I am so learned or astute or any of those other nice things you said (thank you for them), but because my understanding of this principle and its implications is actually pretty simple: There is no harmony to be found between Christ and the gods of those who do not believe in Christ. None. It doesn’t mean we can’t or don’t love them or that we can’t or shouldn’t pray for them. But for me at least it does mean that I cannot in good conscience agree with this event or encourage this type of event or even keep quiet about what I see as bad about this type of event and the thinking that justifies it.

It’s tough to feel like such a jerk all the time, but…if we can’t appear to be fools for Christ, then we’ll just be seen as fools for something else, so we might as well dedicate our foolishness to what is best! 🙂
 
I hear ya, Timothy. No need to be concerned. I hate this stuff but when I read CCC 841 that is part of the actual catechism and that bugs me even more than this interfaith news. This is a general trend of making God more generic. I don’t like it.
Timothy17 said:
I hear you, gurney, and it blows my mind, as it were, also, especially considering the intellectual and theological integrity of this Pope ; nonetheless, while this may be objectively scandalous (in so much as it implies relativism) it is by no means - for a Catholic - an excuse to break Faith or Communion. The Popes have never been impeccable, and Saint Peter’s own example, recorded in Scripture, is one reason for this. Still, the promise was made to him, and our unity was established upon him. A mature and adult Faith can overcome these things - it’s those who are struggling with the Faith who need our support and help when such things happen.

As I said in an earlier post, this is by no means the first time the Church has been in a sad state ; in fact, it arguably has been in sadder states. Let us pray to the Great Popes who reinvigorated discipline, Tradition, and orthodoxy to pray for us to the Lord our God to bestow similar Saints to His Church today.

I admonish you as I admonished others to take heart in the biography of Pope Saint Gregory the VIIth, found on this site, from the 1908 Catholic Encyclopedia.

Pax,
Tim
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On this my :tiphat: to Benedict16 and I give him on this a 👍 :clapping:
 
rev_kevin said:
I think this is a good idea the Pope has. I would pray with anyone, anyplace, at anytime. Prayer is between me and God not between a certain religion, me and God. If you pray to Allah pray to Allah, if you pray to Budda then pray to Budda, for me I pray to God.
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It’s good for you that you agree to what the Pope is doing. You can be sure that there are many who share the same thought with you, Catholics and non-Catholics alike.

There are a variety of opinions about this among Catholic posters here and not all of them think that’s a good idea, mainly from the perspective of relativism and the Catholic Church being the One True Church. This is a good example of the Pope using his own personal judgment and Catholics are free to exercise their position on this. Not that you ask but what one sees here is the fact Catholics do not necessarily agree with the Pope in his personal capacity all the times.
 
Problem is that Buddhists don’t pray to Buddha 😛 It’s essentially an agnostic faith…
rev_kevin said:
I think this is a good idea the Pope has. I would pray with anyone, anyplace, at anytime. Prayer is between me and God not between a certain religion, me and God. If you pray to Allah pray to Allah, if you pray to Budda then pray to Budda, for me I pray to God.
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Sufjon said:
Hi zheremi: I never used the word bigot, but I think not praying with someone because of what faith they belong to might actually be bigotry now that you mention it.
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I know you never used the word “bigot”, but if you meant to insinuate something other than bigotry then you sure picked an odd example in the Westboro Baptist Church…
Anyway, I am still ready to pray with you.
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Pray to the one God, the uncreated and undivided Holy Trinity, forsaking any and all others, and we will already be praying together. I look forward to it. No, more than that: I’m hungry for it. And God…! God is so much more wanting you to be together with Him that He was crucified and died in order to give you the opportunity.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I hear ya, Timothy. No need to be concerned. I hate this stuff but when I read CCC 841 that is part of the actual catechism and that bugs me even more than this interfaith news. This is a general trend of making God more generic. I don’t like it.
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Where is a new St. Augustine when you need one? :confused:😦

Sigh.
 
God broke the mold on our boy, St. Augustine, Sentry. Like you, I wish we could resurrect him. He’d be incensed! Can you imagine Augustine’s reaction to CCC 841 or kissing Korans or this prayer summit deal? woah…Or picture Cyprian’s reaction! Yikes!
The_Sentry said:
Where is a new St. Augustine when you need one? :confused:😦

Sigh.
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I’m just playin’ with ya, rev. I hear ya. I don’t agree one minute with this interfaith prayer event. I think it’s dangerous, ugly, and flat out incongruent with the faith. But heck, I"ve put in my two cents—or six bucks! 😃
rev_kevin said:
Ok fair enough, but you get my point.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
God broke the mold on our boy, St. Augustine, Sentry. Like you, I wish we could resurrect him. He’d be incensed! Can you imagine Augustine’s reaction to CCC 841 or kissing Korans or this prayer summit deal? woah…Or picture Cyprian’s reaction! Yikes!
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If Cyprian walked through the door and somebody told him about where we’re at today and what people are believing/teaching, I’d want to stay out of his way for the rest of the day!
 
And I wonder - where are the likes of Augustine, Athanasius, Cyril, and all the rest? Where are the guys who will stand up when everybody else turns tail - who contend for the Truth with power, intelligence, & conviction?
 
dzheremi said:
I

Pray to the one God, the uncreated and undivided Holy Trinity, forsaking any and all others, and we will already be praying together. I look forward to it. No, more than that: I’m hungry for it. And God…! God is so much more wanting you to be together with Him that He was crucified and died in order to give you the opportunity.
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I do, so we’re all set!

Your friend
Sufjon
 
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