Pope's call for interfaith day of prayer provokes debate

[Timothy17]

And I wonder - where are the likes of Augustine, Athanasius, Cyril, and all the rest? Where are the guys who will stand up when everybody else turns tail - who contend for the Truth with power, intelligence, & conviction?

They’re praying for us with the Church Triumphant, who are the cloud of witnesses.

Bishop Athanasius Schneider, I suspect, is one such person.

Pax,
Tim

 

[comrade1789]

!

Thank you for the link to the video of Bishop Moussa and Father Tadros Yacoub: Alexandria is the land of the Martyrs

I watched it last night and it brought me to tears, made me proud (i.e., honored) to be part of the Christian Tradition (not that I wasn’t already), and at the same time very sorrowful. If anyone hasn’t seen the video Dzheremi links to, I highly recommend it.

 

[John_of_Woking]

If they make it clear that Jesus is the object of all prayers at the event …well then it would be ok. Let’s just hope it isn’t " assisi 1" all over again

 

[latin_rite]

Well, I would say that the Pope is the one who makes those decisions for his church. There are, however, plenty of churches that keep to themselves, are intolerant of other faiths and don’t worship with others if this is a prerequisite for you. I hear the Westboro Baptist church is such a place. They will probably not be participating in this event.

This isn’t a case of not respecting people right to worship what they please. If you want to pray to a cabbage patch doll go right ahead. I’ll even defend your right to do so. But to pray with a pagan is something else. You are recognizing their god has some substance. Maybe the westboro baptist church wouldn’t turn up to this event. And if they didn’t, then they are following God’s word more closely than The pope . There are plenty of times in the ot where God wasn;t impressed with his followers even hanging out with pagans. Jesus wasn’t keen on helping anyone who wasn’t of his faith. He only helped gentiles when they showed faith in him. Not just because he felt sorry for them. Both God and Jesus. Make mention, that there is only one way to heavenly father. And that’s through him. And accepting or respecting a pagan religion to the point of praying with a pagan has and always will be a big no no in the eyes of God.

 

[Holly3278]

I support the Pope in this. I trust that Pope Benedict XVI, the Vicar of Christ, knows what he is doing and that he is guided by God. Saint Francis of Assisi, pray for us that everything would be peaceful throughout the Church and that there would be unity in the Church instead of division. Amen.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The pope’s decisions to do things like this aren’t necessarily guided by God, are they? Surely God didn’t intend for some things the popes have done to happen. I don’t think God guided the Medicis in some of their antics? According to Catholicism, God guides the infallible pastoral teachings that are taught ex cathedra, from the Chair, and certainly this interfaith prayer event is not infallible or a teaching on faith and morals, but an activity the pope is endeavoring himself to join. It’s outside the realm of infallibility so I think we can all criticize this if need be and be disheartened by it.

I support the Pope in this. I trust that Pope Benedict XVI, the Vicar of Christ, knows what he is doing and that he is guided by God. Saint Francis of Assisi, pray for us that everything would be peaceful throughout the Church and that there would be unity in the Church instead of division. Amen.

 

[Sufjon]

This isn’t a case of not respecting people right to worship what they please. If you want to pray to a cabbage patch doll go right ahead. I’ll even defend your right to do so.

Thanks, but I don’t need your help to defend my ability to exercise my faith. We have been doing it without any trouble for five or six thousand years. I don’t pray to a cabbage patch doll by the way.

But to pray with a pagan is some thing else. You are recognizing their god has some substance. Maybe the westboro baptist church wouldn’t turn up to this event. And if they didn’t, then they are following God’s word more closely than The pope .

That is why I pointed you in their direction. Now, it is only my point of view mind you, but personally I see many similarities in this kind of talk and their kind of talk.

There are plenty of times in the ot where God wasn;t impressed with his followers even hanging out with pagans.

There are also plenty of times in the OT where putting disobedient children to death, stoning adulterers, and selling your daughters into slavery can be found. It was supposedly in accordance with God’s law. And so???

Jesus wasn’t keen on helping anyone who wasn’t of his faith.

He also wasn’t too keen on the priests from his own faith. He didn’t seem to be overly impressed with zealots who could recite chapter and verse of the law. He had His own agenda.

He only helped gentiles when they showed faith in him. Not just because he felt sorry for them. Both God and Jesus. Make mention, that there is only one way to heavenly father. And that’s through him. And accepting or respecting a pagan religion to the point of praying with a pagan has and always will be a big no no in the eyes of God.

He didn’t ask the blind man or the woman caught in adultery for a membership card. He approached the blind man, not the other way around. The woman caught in adultery said nothing before He saved her. Belief in Him or acceptance of Him was NOT a prerequisite for Him reaching out to others. He did what He did in accordance with the business He was about, without regard to what the business of others might have been.

Bottom line, is that you are free to stay at home, be selective about whom you worship with, consider others unsaved, unclean, silly or whatever you like. If you believe that is required by your faith, then stick with it. You may not, however, expect myself or many others (including the Pope apparently in this case) to subscribe to that view. Up to this point, you have not produced any logic that sounds in any way compelling to me.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Christians are starting to work together out on the streets late at night, through an initiative called Street Pastors. This involves going out late on a Friday night, and coming into contact with drugs, aggression, drink, gangs and rowdy behaviour. It cannot work without prayer, and trusting that God hears and responds to our combined prayers. I feel so blessed that I am able to do this with Christians from 8 denominations, we pray for each other, we pray for the people on the streets.

I am a Catholic, and find a great blessing that people of other denominations are praying for me, and I joyfully pray for them too.

My hopes and prayers would be for some kind of interfaith cooperation, whereby Muslims, Christians, Hindu and all others could work and pray together.

Blessings

Eric

 

[Contarini]

God broke the mold on our boy, St. Augustine, Sentry. Like you, I wish we could resurrect him. He’d be incensed! Can you imagine Augustine’s reaction to CCC 841 or kissing Korans or this prayer summit deal? woah…Or picture Cyprian’s reaction! Yikes!

Since Augustine, like all the Fathers, recognized that the supreme Deity of the pagans was the true God, and since Augustine championed a more sympathetic view of Jews than was commonly accepted by the early Church (according to one contemporary Jewish scholar, Paula Fredriksen), I think that Augustine might surprise you.

Edwin

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

What you’re condoning is basically this:
I’ll pray to Jesus, my Muslim buddy will pray to Allah, my Hindu comrade to Shiva, my animist friend to the plants and elements, my Daoist friend to the unseeable Dao, my Buddhist friend to bodhisattvas, my atheist friend to himself/reason, my deist friend to an unknowable generic clock-winder god.

This is blasphemy. There is One God. He is Trinitarian and the God of the New Testament. “Praying together” is a farce. And cooperating in this is sinful. Protestants and Catholics praying together is FINE as it is to the same One God. Praying with non-Christians is a condoning of pantheism. I find this repugnant and frightening, the entire concept. How do you justify this?

God bless

Christians are starting to work together out on the streets late at night, through an initiative called Street Pastors. This involves going out late on a Friday night, and coming into contact with drugs, aggression, drink, gangs and rowdy behaviour. It cannot work without prayer, and trusting that God hears and responds to our combined prayers. I feel so blessed that I am able to do this with Christians from 8 denominations, we pray for each other, we pray for the people on the streets.

I am a Catholic, and find a great blessing that people of other denominations are praying for me, and I joyfully pray for them too.

My hopes and prayers would be for some kind of interfaith cooperation, whereby Muslims, Christians, Hindu and all others could work and pray together.

Blessings

Eric

 

[dzheremi]

With lots and lots of hugs, Gurney! We’ll just hug the Christ-hating out of the Muslims, the pantheism out of the Pagans, the Atheism out of the atheists, etc.

It seems so simple, I don’t know why no-one has tried it before! Except, y’know…all the other times they did try it…

 

[Sufjon]

Christians are starting to work together out on the streets late at night, through an initiative called Street Pastors. This involves going out late on a Friday night, and coming into contact with drugs, aggression, drink, gangs and rowdy behaviour. It cannot work without prayer, and trusting that God hears and responds to our combined prayers. I feel so blessed that I am able to do this with Christians from 8 denominations, we pray for each other, we pray for the people on the streets.

I am a Catholic, and find a great blessing that people of other denominations are praying for me, and I joyfully pray for them too.

My hopes and prayers would be for some kind of interfaith cooperation, whereby Muslims, Christians, Hindu and all others could work and pray together.

Blessings

Eric

I have heard of your initiative and I am grateful for what you and others are doing. I think it’s great and I pray for your safety in this endeavor. I know God is with you. The best examples from all faiths seem to follow this same line of service. Mother Theresa didn’t say “hey, wait a minute - are you a Catholic?” before she reached out to people. You can hardly find a Christian in the land where she spent most of her time. Like you, she was about her Father’s business. Thanks for doing what you’re doing!

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[latin_rite]

That is why I pointed you in their direction. Now, it is only my point of view mind you, but personally I see many similarities in this kind of talk and their kind of talk.

Why would i want to follow them? Being a 100% correct on one matter, doesn’t excuse all their other faults. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

There are also plenty of times in the OT where putting disobedient children to death, stoning adulterers, and selling your daughters into slavery can be found. It was supposedly in accordance with God’s law. And so???

Jesus brought forward new laws, that said we don’t have to follow all the laws in the ot. But there are laws that he made sure we were to still follow. And not worshipping with pagans was one of them I found your argument childish and and not very knowledgeable. of the Christian faith.

He also wasn’t too keen on the priests from his own faith. He didn’t seem to be overly impressed with zealots who could recite chapter and verse of the law. He had His own agenda

I don’t understand the relevance…

He didn’t ask the blind man or the woman caught in adultery for a membership card. He approached the blind man, not the other way around. The woman caught in adultery said nothing before He saved her. Belief in Him or acceptance of Him was NOT a prerequisite for Him reaching out to others. He did what He did in accordance with the business He was about, without regard to what the business of others might have been.

How do you know they weren’t jews? But again irrelevant. The fact is he made it clear he wasn’t keen on helping pagans. I twas only when they demonstrated faith towards him that he helped them

Bottom line, is that you are free to stay at home, be selective about whom you worship with, consider others unsaved, unclean, silly or whatever you like. If you believe that is required by your faith, then stick with it. You may not, however, expect myself or many others (including the Pope apparently in this case) to subscribe to that view. Up to this point, you have not produced any logic that sounds in any way compelling to me.

Thank you. But i already know what i am free to do or not to do. Apparently though if it was up to you, I wouldn;'t be free to comment on anything that you would disagree with,. As a Catholic i have every right to comment on what the pope does. Just like an American has every right to comment on what the president does. I don’t expect nothing of you.You can do as you please. So can many others. And i doubt the pope will read what i have said about him and put a stop this incredibly stupid idea. But i have every right to say he is going against what God and Jesus have commanded. .Not really interested if what i say is logical or compelling. to you. I am on a public Catholic forum expressing my belief that the pope is making a mistake. I don’t know what religion you belong to that makes that such a taboo. But in Catholicism it totally acceptable.

 

[Sufjon]

Why would i want to follow them? Being a 100% correct on one matter, doesn’t excuse all their other faults. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I’m glad you don’t want to follow them. I only said that the things you say remind me of the things they say.Just my opinion.

Jesus brought forward new laws, that said we don’t have to follow all the laws in the ot. But there are laws that he made sure we were to still follow. And not worshipping with pagans was one of them I found your argument childish and and not very knowledgeable. of the Christian faith.

Yes, apparently He did, but you brought up the OT as a point of reference, not me. I just replied by showing that many of the things in the OT don’t serve as much of an example.

How do you know they weren’t jews? But again irrelevant. The fact is he made it clear he wasn’t keen on helping pagans. I twas only when they demonstrated faith towards him that he helped them

1. How do you know they were?
2. I already pointed out that neither the blind man nor the adulteress had approached him or affirmed their belief in Him in any way before He reached out to them. I would be happy to accept what you sad if it matched what your gospels said. I do not believe He was that selective, but you may take Him down to whatever level you see fit.

Thank you. But i already know what i am free to do or not to do. Apparently though if it was up to you, I wouldn;'t be free to comment on anything that you would disagree with,. As a Catholic i have every right to comment on what the pope does. Just like an American has every right to comment on what the president does. I don’t expect nothing of you.You can do as you please. So can many others. And i doubt the pope will read what i have said about him and put a stop this incredibly stupid idea. But i have every right to say he is going against what God and Jesus have commanded. .Not really interested if what i say is logical or compelling. to you. I am on a public Catholic forum expressing my belief that the pope is making a mistake. I don’t know what religion you belong to that makes that such a taboo. But in Catholicism it totally acceptable.

My faith doesn’t care what this person says or that person says. You can say what you will. We don;t keep membership roles or kick people out for any reason. You do have a right to say what you will. I responded because I find the whole idea of prayer segregation
to be but a small step from other sorts of divisions that people place between one another. This division leads to that, and then another, and soon you have what you always get time and time again - thinking like this:

oldpoetry.com/opoem/6203-Sir-John-Betjeman-In-Westminster-Abbey

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Harpazo]

Where is a new St. Augustine when you need one?

Sigh.

St. Nikolai of Zhicha
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

St. Nikolai of Zhicha, a great pastor and shepherd of our times. He was called “The New Chrysostom” and even spent some time in the U.S. You can read his Prologue here, which is a compendium of the lives of the Saints for each day with a meditation on a spiritual theme. The Prologue is incredibly inspiring.

This Assisi thing is rife with something that Unitarians would be comfortable with. And it’s exactly why we need an orthodoxy in all things. It actually brings to mind an episode of the Simpsons where the family goes to the church ice cream social:

Lisa: Wow, look at all these flavors! Blessed Virgin Berry, Command-Mint, Bible Gum?
Rev. Lovejoy: Or, if you prefer, we also have Unitarian ice cream.
[hands Lisa an empty bowl]
Lisa: There’s nothing here.
Lovejoy: Exactly.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It pains a good boy to admit it, but what is this Assisi I and III stuff people are talking about? I must not be up to snuff on it? The way everyone is talking about it, it can’t be good!

 

[latin_rite]

I’m glad you don’t want to follow them. I only said that the things you say remind me of the things they say.Just my opinion.

God and Jesus must remind you of them as well. Because what i said was based on what they commanded.

Yes, apparently He did, but you brought up the OT as a point of reference, not me. I just replied by showing that many of the things in the OT don’t serve as much of an example.

I could mention a few things that Jesus said we no longer needed to follow as well. But it doesn;t invalidate those that he said we were still to follow. . Jesus up held those particular laws laid down by God. It is a very clear reference. He did it at least twice that i know of.

1. How do you know they were?

I don’t . But since he never made reference to their religion. Then it is safe to assume that they were Jews. As he made a point of letting people know, when he was helping out those who weren’t jewish

1. I already pointed out that neither the blind man nor the adulteress had approached him or affirmed their belief in Him in any way before He reached out to them. I would be happy to accept what you sad if it matched what your gospels said. I do not believe He was that selective, but you may take Him down to whatever level you see fit.

Actually. You’re the one who is taking him down. I am only saying what he commanded. Maybe you might like to think less of him because of this. I don’t. The pope is saying to pray with pagans. Both God and Jesus says not too. I think i’ll listen to God and Jesus on this matter.
You can call me ignorant, xenophobic. It doesn’t matter. There are at least two who will agree with me on this. And it’s those two opinions, that really matters.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Jesus is God!

God and Jesus must remind you of them as well. Because what i said was based on what they commanded.

I could mention a few things that Jesus said we no longer needed to follow as well. But it doesn;t invalidate those that he said we were still to follow. . Jesus up held those particular laws laid down by God. It is a very clear reference. He did it at least twice that i know of.

I don’t . But since he never made reference to their religion. Then it is safe to assume that they were Jews. As he made a point of letting people know, when he was helping out those who weren’t jewish

Actually. You’re the one who is taking him down. I am only saying what he commanded. Maybe you might like to think less of him because of this. I don’t. The pope is saying to pray with pagans. Both God and Jesus says not too. I think i’ll listen to God and Jesus on this matter.
You can call me ignorant, xenophobic. It doesn’t matter. There are at least two who will agree with me on this. And it’s those two opinions, that really matters.

 

[latin_rite]

Jesus is God!

Perhaps i should have said. it is those [l]three[/l] opinions that really matter.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

We are asked to love and pray for our enemies, so wouldn’t it be even greater if we could pray with them?
I don’t look at people of other faiths as enemies, they are my neighbours, and we are to love our neighbours as we love ourselves.
All things good start with prayer
Blessings
Eric