D
DavidKays
Guest
Then why don’t they join the Protestant church.
- Status
D
dzheremi
Guest
Rude! By the same token, why don’t you join the Roman communion? I’m sure they’d love to have you…
D
DavidKays
Guest
The Pope is the father for all people on this planet. If you find this wrong then you are only imitating the Pharisees who found fault with Christ. Jesus had a hard time with the Pharisees because they were old in their years and could not grasp the new wine that Our Lord was teaching. The new wine was not to replace the old but it will help the younger generations to understand better what the old was all about. New wine for new wineskins. The old cannot convert in the same manner as before. The younger generation will not accept it or listen to it. Thus new wine comes in to help these young ones. The older generation while accepting the old ways of teaching and so on tends to leave the new wine alone. And that is ok. You have been brought up on it. But why complain about the new wine? Leave it alone. Allow God to deal with this so He can reach the newer generations. Why be critical of this? Do you want what God wants or do you want to crucify again the new wine. Leave it alone. Do not do what the Pharisees did with Jesus. Allow the new wine to help ferment the young so that they will believe also. New wine for new wineskins. But as the verse that comes afterwards " some prefer the old ". Allow His Holiness to do what he can to help the young in their search for the truth. You have your time with the truth and God bless you for that but the young need new wine and there is nothing wrong with having new wine.
J
jam070406
Guest
The Catholic Church didn’t make up doctrines willy nilly. It is Divine revelation. They were taught by Jesus Christ (God come in the flesh) to the Apostles. And passed on through the Church Jesus started.
The Holy Trinity, the Apostles, the Church Fathers, the Magestirum, the Pope all reject relativism. The current Pontiff has strongly opposed the ideas you propose.
That is Catholic teaching.
The topic of discussion regarding the actions of Pope does not involve infallibility. There are tons of threads on this forum and links on catholic.com where you can learn the proper understanding of the doctrine.
A
At_Trent
Guest
Christ desired unity among us. But those who don’t submit to papal authority are simply not in union with Christ’s Church.
So I will pray for non-Catholics, but not with them.
So I will pray for non-Catholics, but not with them.
D
DavidKays
Guest
I am not rude sir. I am a Greek Orthodox Christian. I have many Catholic friends here and I have helped the Church of Rome here on the Island more than you can imagine. What I find here is the lack of love among people of the same faith. It is disheartening that people can be like this. Young people will never accept this kind of behavior. I am suprised that many Catholics do not love their own Pope. It is this sadness that makes me wonder who really is in communion with each other. I accept and support the Pope. Many Catholics will not support him. I do and yet they say I am not in communion with him because I am Orthodox. May be I am in communion with His Holiness more than any of you who say that I am not.
M
Mickey
Guest
D
dzheremi
Guest
I don’t particularly care what religion you claim to be, DavidKays. It is rude to suggest that those who disagree with the Pope on this issue might as well be Protestants, as though there is no room to disagree over his actions on this matter (kind of odd, considering the article in the OP is all about how many Catholics disagree with this).
And I fail to see why “young people will never accept this kind of behavior.” Maybe you’re only thinking of one particular type of young person? Because I’m a young person, and I don’t accept interfaith prayer meetings or any of that hoopla. I don’t think age has anything to do with it. I think orthodoxy is the criterion. Those Catholics who have an orthodox understanding of their faith are very uneasy with this situation. Others with a different understanding feel differently about it.
And then there’s you, the “Orthodox” who is more in communion with the Pope than the Catholics who have a different opinion than you. Fine. Congratulations, I guess? (Is that what you’re looking for?) I don’t see that as anything to be proud of if you are Orthodox, but that’s between you and God. The main point is: People can and do disagree with the Pope’s decision and it doesn’t make them Protestants any more than you agreeing with the Pope makes you Catholic.
And I fail to see why “young people will never accept this kind of behavior.” Maybe you’re only thinking of one particular type of young person? Because I’m a young person, and I don’t accept interfaith prayer meetings or any of that hoopla. I don’t think age has anything to do with it. I think orthodoxy is the criterion. Those Catholics who have an orthodox understanding of their faith are very uneasy with this situation. Others with a different understanding feel differently about it.
And then there’s you, the “Orthodox” who is more in communion with the Pope than the Catholics who have a different opinion than you. Fine. Congratulations, I guess? (Is that what you’re looking for?) I don’t see that as anything to be proud of if you are Orthodox, but that’s between you and God. The main point is: People can and do disagree with the Pope’s decision and it doesn’t make them Protestants any more than you agreeing with the Pope makes you Catholic.
M
Mickey
Guest
Really?!?
It is quite uncharitable to falsely accuse people of acting like Pharisees.
It has nothing to do with old and new generations. It has everything to do with praying alongside those who worship false gods. We have many holy saints and martyrs who preferred death rather do such a thing.
Because it is heretical.
J
JeanMichel
Guest
Friend Gurney,Hi JeanMichel,
I have nothing to fear either from reading the holy books of other religions. I have read the Koran several times, the Book of Mormon, the Dharmappada probably 10 times, the Vedas several times, the stories of Krishna, you name it. To understand other religions is a powerful thing and a positive step IMO, not something threatening. Like learning another language doesn’t harm one’s native tongue, learning about other religions doesn’t threaten one’s own faith if that faith is truly grounded in Our Lord.
That being said, when you say these people of Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. are “holy,” I must differ. They may be kind, gentle, peaceful, insightful, intelligent, and charitable, giving, etc. But to be “holy” they must be in Christ to, in the true sense of the word, have holiness. Catholicism, and Christianity in general, teaches us that works are empty and worthless if not done through Christ Jesus and in the guidance of the holy spirit. They may benefit society, help the downtrodden and lame, make our world better for sure, but they are not acts of “holiness” IMO. To be holy one must have Christ Jesus. Just my two cents…or ten!
To me the term holy connotes the feeling one receives when in the presence of the Holy Spirit. I believe the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, was present in ancient Israel, among the prophets, and among the Israelites themselves. I think you will find evidence of the presence of God in places where Christ has not been taught or known. Where truth is, God is. The more truth found, the greater the presence of the Spirit. I have met Jews that I felt were holy people. In fact, I have felt holiness in many people that were members of other Christian churches, and other faiths. Holiness is developed by following truth. The fullness of truth is found in Jesus Christ. The fact that these individuals emanate the Spirit of God, or the Holy Spirit, is a sign of their putting all their knowledge of truth into practice. Do they still need Christ; of course and I will never disagree with that. But I also believe that God has a plan of each of his children and he will be able to bring all those who seek to know him fully into his one true fold.
Holiness does not belong just to Catholics, but is found with those who follow truth in purity and with complete subservience. It should cause each of us to pause that with so little they accomplish so much while we with so much, often accomplish so little.
D
DavidKays
Guest
I give up! I was not been rude. I am saying it is incredible that Catholics do not love and support the Pope. That is all. What is the big deal. You know I am going to end with this. I never in my life thought meeting people who can also be rude and be misunderstanding. I try to put up with people of all kinds but I find people of the same Faith can be the greatest obstacles of all. Jesus had a better time with the Romans and the Samaritans than He did with His own. I will write my book and then sir we will see who has been rude and who has been not.
M
Mickey
Guest
I’m sure it is rather difficult for you since 99.9% of your posts are not in accordance with Orthodox teaching.
Dzheremi has not been rude to you. I believe it is you who is rude by insulting Catholics and Orthodox alike–while calling those who disagree with you “Pharisees”.
R
Roy5
Guest
Yes, mainline Protestants generally - there are exceptions - are not dogmatic when it comes to the Bible. While they find special guidance and inspiration in scripture, I’ve found that they are very tolerant when it comes to diverse interpretations of this or that verse.
Code:
I recall discussions with Protestants who had different interpretations of say, "Thou shall not kill." Some thought it meant we had to be conscientious objectors rather than kill enemy soldiers. Yes, we could be medics, but not carry guns. Some tended to go along with the 'just war' theory. Some believed in capital punishment, some did not. Etc. There was no sense of "there is only one Christian position on the subject."
Or, take the meaning of communion. Some had a 'high view' of communion, that the elements had special meaning, that Christ came to us through the elements in some special way. Some felt it was a time to repent of sins and remember the sacrifice and victory of Christ. Some viewed it primarily as a 'family feast' - Christians gathering together at the Lord's Table to express and celebrate their faith. Some never quite embrace communion, somewhat suspicious that it was where Christians could become superstitious if they weren't careful. Etc.
And we could go on. I like such an atmosphere where different views were not condemned as heretical, where there was no strict 'party line' that Christians had to follow. We were respected as thinking individuals with the right to form our own opinions. I guess that's where I've ended up after much reflection. The word that sums it up for me is 'freedom' - freedom of thought, of speech, of conviction, even to change one's mind without reproach. I suspect that God honors our attempts, however limited, to understand him and this marvelous, mammoth and mysterious creation.
God bless all his children and may we learn to live in peace and mutual respect, recognizing that none of us has any monopoly on spiritual truth.
S
Sufjon
Guest
I know that is what you think. I read the same things and this is what I see:
-Jesus said that because He was God. He said the same to other people at other times. Each time He was God.
-God is not the provincial mayor of one religion on one planet in one solar system in one galaxy in one universe. He is part and parcel of every thing, every mind and every form of energy everywhere. We are talking about God, not the president of a club.
-Within the man Jesus was a thing called the Christ Consciousness or Kutashtha. Within every other person is the same thing. The difference? He saw it. When the Christ Consciousness spoke through the man Jesus telling you He was the way the truth and the life, it was likely a call to awaken the Christ Consciousness in yourself. The way, the truth and the life is within you and all around you. No one comes to realization of the Father or supreme consciousness that pervades all things without awakening it within yourself.
I’m not feeling very confused, but have it as you will.
Well, what He meant by church wasn’t spelled out specifically to equal cathedrals, basilicas, councils, hierarchies, ceremonial costumes, rituals and the like. It is true that this is what they came to be, but to be honest with you, well I really can’t see Him being in that picture. It doesn’t fit with the things He did and the way He lived. I couldn’t see Peter in that picture either. Do you honestly think you could get St. Peter to slip on a pair of red Pradas? I just really can’t see that. Do you see that? Neither of those men seemed to have a care in the world about things like clothes, finery, impressive buildings, sophisticated organizational structures, committees, budgets, councils and the like. They were living in the synchronicity of people who had their minds fixed on something bigger, so the simple things they needed just came as they needed them. The priests of the time had all the trappings I mentioned, and who did Jesus cause the biggest fracas with? Those very people. So, I have to wonder what He meant by church.
If you think the organization you belong to is what He meant, then that’s your thing. I will simply always be curious as to how in the world it became something like that. Jesus never carried more than what He needed for the minute. If we had any faith at all, it follows t hat we could be the same. Instead, the institutions that claim to be His churches are encumbered with the ponderous weight of titanic assets and all the ancillary organizational concerns that go with it. I think it would be hard to walk with and keep pace with Jesus carrying all that. I think the man would have nothing to do with it.
Your friend
Sufjon
G
gurneyhalleck1
Guest
With all due respect (and I mean that literally), David, have you considered conversion to Catholicism? Honestly you are more of a loyal servant of the pope than most Catholics including myself. Your view of the papacy is very loyal and more Roman in character, not congruent with Orthodoxy. I think you should consider joining an Eastern church in communion with Rome perhaps. Most of your posts don’t sound Orthodox from what I know of my Orthodox brethren. God bless…
R
Reuben_J
Guest
But we do love the Pope!
And I would like to thank you for your support and your love. You have encouraged us much, much more than you may have thought.
As for your post, which is directed to dzheremi, well, he is not a Catholic, so he says. I thought he is still searching but nevertheless we pray that he will find perfect peace in that search and that God continues in his walk always.
God bless you.
G
gurneyhalleck1
Guest
dzheremi has made it clear that he is looking seriously at coptic orthodoxy.
But we do love the Pope!
And I would like to thank you for your support and your love. You have encouraged us much, much more than you may have thought.
As for your post, which is directed to dzheremi, well, he is not a Catholic, so he says. I thought he is still searching but nevertheless we pray that he will find perfect peace in that search and that God continues in his walk always.
God bless you.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Noted, though no decision has been made. He has been here for sometimes and frankly I do love reading some of his posts, and especially for the times when we are of the same mind, those posts were extremely appreciated.
I’ll continue keeping him in prayers and that all the best will only be with him.
D
dzheremi
Guest
Thank you for your kind words, Reuben.
My journey to Orthodoxy has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I am truly sorry if I have offended you, DavidKays, but I hope that you (and everyone else in this thread) understands that my response was in defense of Catholics who disagree with the Pope. This isn’t some way of stealth proselytizing for Orthodoxy. I’m openly saying I’m not Orthodox. Luckily, that’s not the issue. The issue to me is that when you tell Catholics that they shouldn’t be disagreeing with the Pope when you yourself are not Catholic…well, it rings a bit hollow, doesn’t it? Those who would support the Pope’s position in this matter will thank you for your support, but then what of those who do not? How do you think it feels to be told you should go be a Protestant if you can’t agree with this situation, which is not enshrined in some papal bull or anything to begin with? I do feel that this is very rude. I may not be under the Roman Pope myself anymore, but I won’t just sit here and let anybody malign those who are just for having different opinions on a matter that it is perfectly fine to have different opinions on. That’s ridiculous, and very inconsiderate.
My journey to Orthodoxy has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I am truly sorry if I have offended you, DavidKays, but I hope that you (and everyone else in this thread) understands that my response was in defense of Catholics who disagree with the Pope. This isn’t some way of stealth proselytizing for Orthodoxy. I’m openly saying I’m not Orthodox. Luckily, that’s not the issue. The issue to me is that when you tell Catholics that they shouldn’t be disagreeing with the Pope when you yourself are not Catholic…well, it rings a bit hollow, doesn’t it? Those who would support the Pope’s position in this matter will thank you for your support, but then what of those who do not? How do you think it feels to be told you should go be a Protestant if you can’t agree with this situation, which is not enshrined in some papal bull or anything to begin with? I do feel that this is very rude. I may not be under the Roman Pope myself anymore, but I won’t just sit here and let anybody malign those who are just for having different opinions on a matter that it is perfectly fine to have different opinions on. That’s ridiculous, and very inconsiderate.
D
ddarko
Guest
I don’t understand. Lets say a group or a nation has a religion where they worship a tree. Do you think it right to ask them to pray for world peace? What ever happened to the fact that these people are engaged in idolatry?
What about polytheist? Those who love to use occult practices etc? Do you think its still ok?
While I think the Pope’s intentions are nice in a movie, but what he is saying is not consistent and really carries no weight other than an emotional dimension. You can’t just ask people to do their own thing. It automatically implies that those who worship a tree, worship through occult practices for an example are also actually speaking to God
Now I love our Pope but I think this is a bit of a mistake.
God Bless
- Status