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CilladeRoma
Guest
Being a homosexual is NOT a mental disorder.
Homosexual sex is disordered because it is not pro-creative.
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Homosexual sex is disordered because it is not pro-creative.
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gcshapero
Guest
Why is it not a mental disorder?Being a homosexual is NOT a mental disorder.
Homosexual sex is disordered because it is not pro-creative.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
I agree with this. I think there are far more important factors to consider when a man is discerning the priesthood. Not to say that his sexuality isn’t important, but we are not our sexuality.have seldom heard debate about whether or not an alcoholic or someone battling some sort of addiction at all should or shouldn’t enter into the seminary. For some reason, it is always homosexuals, and for some reason, homosexuality is front and center of so much discussion. Some can’t stop talking about it.
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Augustinian
Guest
i think your bringing up a good point here.This may be your experience, but not mine, and certainly not the gay men & women I know.
I’m older, 61, and the homosexuals of my age group, that I’ve known have been neurotic and sex obsessed. Entertaining sort of fellows to talk to, but not what I’d call “serious” men.
I think the vast increase in homosexuality we’ve seen since the 1980’s has changed the demographic of the group a lot. The ideas of “gay marriage” and “adoption” would not have been considered as serious ideas back in the day
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Is mastubating, having adulterous sex, fornicating or watching porn a mental disorder?
None of these things are ordered to procreation, or even unity.
Do you consider these things mental disorders?
None of these things are ordered to procreation, or even unity.
Do you consider these things mental disorders?
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Mtdobbs
Guest
In a Florida study of 176 teachers since 2005, the statistics for inappropriate sexual relationships were as followed:
Male teacher, female student(s): 121
Female teacher, male student(s): 25
Male teacher, male student(s): 15
Female teacher, female student(s): 8
Male teacher, unspecified students: 4
Male teacher, male and female students: 3
My question is an honest one. If the majority of teacher sexual abuse happened between male teachers and female students, is it more likely to happen with priests now that “female” alter servers are becoming the new norm? Is it homosexuality that is the real issue or is it disordered hyper-sexuality?
Male teacher, female student(s): 121
Female teacher, male student(s): 25
Male teacher, male student(s): 15
Female teacher, female student(s): 8
Male teacher, unspecified students: 4
Male teacher, male and female students: 3
My question is an honest one. If the majority of teacher sexual abuse happened between male teachers and female students, is it more likely to happen with priests now that “female” alter servers are becoming the new norm? Is it homosexuality that is the real issue or is it disordered hyper-sexuality?
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CilladeRoma
Guest
I am 48. I know some people who live a flamboyant lifestyle, but for the most part, you would never know that my gay friends are gay. Most of them are between 35-70.
In my experience it is now the younger people who are more “in your face” with their sexuality- no matter what the variety.
In my experience it is now the younger people who are more “in your face” with their sexuality- no matter what the variety.
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gcshapero
Guest
Good question. We’d both agree they’re all downright sinful. Are they mental disorders? I don’t know if they are intrinsically spawned by mental orders, though these can all be symptoms of mental disorders.Is mastubating, having adulterous sex, fornicating or watching porn a mental disorder?
None of these things are ordered to procreation, or even unity.
Do you consider these things mental disorders?
But just because some things aren’t doesn’t mean others aren’t either. At the very least, we can call it a mental disturbance.
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Augustinian
Guest
If someone applied to the seminary and defined themselves as an adulterous masturbator, I’m not sure if that would indicate that they are a good candidate for the priesthood, even if they reported they were no longer active in these activities.Is mastubating, having adulterous sex, fornicating or watching porn a mental disorder?
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gcshapero
Guest
In all fairness, I don’t think Callade is suggesting that the individual is active in homosexuality. However, I do agree that if someone has that inclination and struggles with it that severely, then seminary probably wouldn’t be the right move until it has been addressed.If someone applied to the seminary and defined themselves as an adulterous masturbator, I’m not sure if that would indicate that they are a good candidate for the priesthood, even if they reported they were no longer active in these activities.
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phil19034
Guest
How many of those people you know are active in the LGBT community and take part in the “gay lifestyle?”This may be your experience, but not mine, and certainly not the gay men & women I know.
The term “deep seated” often implies that the sin is apart of their lifestyle, identity, and/or daily struggles.
This is obvious since overwhelming majority of people are heterosexual and that 75% or more of Catholics disagree with something in regards to Church teaching.In fact, I know far many more heterosexual Catholics who see nothing inherently wrong with sex outside of marriage, masturbation, porn, etc. and see the Church’s stance on sexual morality as antiquated.
But it still doesn’t change the fact that most men who view being homosexual as part of their identity are going to find church teaching difficult.
But this is why it’s not a blanket ban against all homosexuals. There are many who are totally suitable for the priesthood.
God Bless
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CilladeRoma
Guest
What is a “gay lifestyle”?
Many of my gay friends are active in anti-discrimination and anti-bullying initiatives.
Some (but not all, and mostly those who are non-Catholic) have been active voices in marriage equality, but other than that their lifestyles are the same as mine- work, home, hobbies, volunteer work, socializing with friends and family.
The majority of my gay friends are practicing Catholics. Not one of them thinks that the Chuch should change its teachings and not one of them has any problem with teaching Catholic morality.
Many of my gay friends are active in anti-discrimination and anti-bullying initiatives.
Some (but not all, and mostly those who are non-Catholic) have been active voices in marriage equality, but other than that their lifestyles are the same as mine- work, home, hobbies, volunteer work, socializing with friends and family.
The majority of my gay friends are practicing Catholics. Not one of them thinks that the Chuch should change its teachings and not one of them has any problem with teaching Catholic morality.
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phil19034
Guest
it’s a good question. But that really doesn’t have anything to do with why men with deep seated attraction to other men cannot be priests.My question is an honest one. If the majority of teacher sexual abuse happened between male teachers and female students, is it more likely to happen with priests now that “female” alter servers are becoming the new norm? Is it homosexuality that is the real issue or is it disordered hyper-sexuality?
The main reason is because it’s a near occasion to sin.
Plus, the percentage of seminarians sexually abused/harassed might actually be far greater, then the percentages of the child sex abuse scandal.
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phil19034
Guest
Do I really have to spell it out?What is a “gay lifestyle”?
If your gay friends do not have any issues with Church teaching in this regard, and are living chaste lives then I’m not talking about them.
Thank you
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CilladeRoma
Guest
How is it any more a near occasion of sin for a homosexual person than a heterosexual person?The main reason is because it’s a near occasion to sin.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Yes, please do.
I keep hearing about “gay lifestyle”, yet what most people seem to be talking about is what Hollywood wants us to see, not what the reality is.
Edited to add: And, I know far more heterosexual Catholics who have problems with Church teaching on morality than I do gay people.
I keep hearing about “gay lifestyle”, yet what most people seem to be talking about is what Hollywood wants us to see, not what the reality is.
Edited to add: And, I know far more heterosexual Catholics who have problems with Church teaching on morality than I do gay people.
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phil19034
Guest
Because heterosexual priests do not live in the same house with women. But homosexual priests typically do live in the same house as other men (aka priests).How is it any more a near occasion of sin for a homosexual person than a heterosexual person?
Even if they can control their sexual desires, they risk the chance of falling in love with the priests they live with.
It’s the same reason why it is still near occasion of sin for a opposite sex (hetrosexual) friends to be roommates. This is also why most faithful Catholic colleges do not have dorms which are coed by room (they typically stick to single sex buildings, floors, and/or wings).
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gcshapero
Guest
If we’re not going into anecdotes (which I on’t think is the right criteria, but I’ll go with it too), I’m 33 and lived in Dupont Circle in DC for many years – this is the mecca of gay neighborhoods in the district. It is where the Gay Pride parades begin and end.Yes, please do.
I keep hearing about “gay lifestyle”, yet what most people seem to be talking about is what Hollywood wants us to see, not what the reality is.
I got to know them, I got to know the ones who identify as Catholics and are regular Mass attendees to ones vehemently against the Church.
Regardless of how faithful or against the Church they are, there is still an objective reality about what homosexuality itself actually is and the affects it has on the Church. Many of the clergy themselves are not gay, but they are homosexualists meaning they act as almost apologists, but this discussion reduces the meaning of marriage. This is why, for example, Fr. James Martin is so quiet about contraception.
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phil19034
Guest
Gay lifestyle is: Going to gay clubs, engaging in homosexual acts, etc.I keep hearing about “gay lifestyle”, yet what most people seem to be talking about is what Hollywood wants us to see, not what the reality is.
If you want to use Hollywood as a benchmark, just look at Will & Grace. The character of Will, while for the most part he seems like any “metrosexual straight man,” is taking part in the gay lifestyle. While the character of Jack is far more immersed into the “LGBTQ culture.”
And again, you are OBVIOUSLY going to know far more heterosexual Catholics who have problems with Church teaching - that’s statistical certainty. And again, same sex attracted Catholics who practice their faith, agree 100% with Church teaching, and live chaste lives are NOT the issue.Edited to add: And, I know far more heterosexual Catholics who have problems with Church teaching on morality than I do gay people.
The issue is two fold:
- Men with deep seated same sex attraction will be placed in the occasion of near sin by living with other men
- Plus, there is the sad fact hat we still have a number of seminaries that are filled with young men who are ACTIVELY practicing homosexual acts. In a lot of these dissent seminaries, undergraduate seminarians are NOT allowed to date girls (meaning they will be expelled for dating a girl or engaging in heterosexual acts), but the practice of homosexual acts is not banned (meaning they will NOT be expelled for engaging in homosexual acts).
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Again, something I keep hearing, but, I have never seen any actual evidence for the claims being made here.Plus, there is the sad fact hat we still have a number of seminaries that are filled with young men who are ACTIVELY practicing homosexual acts. In a lot of these dissent seminaries, undergraduate seminarians are NOT allowed to date girls (meaning they will be expelled for dating a girl or engaging in heterosexual acts), but the practice of homosexual acts is not banned (meaning they will NOT be expelled for engaging in homosexual acts).
Where are these seminaries, and who are the Bishops who are supporting them?