Pope's comment ordination of gay people

  • Thread starter Thread starter DonQuichote1235
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Oh, feel free to disagree. I’ll continue to maintain that Thomistic Moral Theology is supreme! Yeah!(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Sure. There’s the moral theology expressed in the Catechism. Newsflash: It ain’t Thomism. Now, if you’re going to claim that the Catechism (and, by extension, the Magisterium) is teaching heresy, then please come clean and say and be done with it. Stop playing coy and say what you mean.
 
The Catechism passage already posted says that those with SSA should be treated compassionately. Thomistic theology teaches that homosexual intercourse is one of a number of mortal sexual sins–and that hasn’t changed. It can’t change. Natural and Divine law and all. There is no contradiction.
 
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I know I am not denying that homosexual sex is grave matter and can be a mortal sin my issue with with anyone who says that it is more sinful than other sexual sins.
 
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Taking that position to it’s absurd conclusion, then: heterosexual fornication, homosexual intercourse, incest, bestiality and necrophilia are all equal in gravity. I wouldn’t agree with that, and I don’t think you would either. But that’s the inevitable conclusion if one asserts that a sexual sin that violates natural law is equivalent in gravity to one that doesn’t violate natural law.

Ergo, either there is a gradation of the gravity of sexual sins, based on whether or not and to what degree such sins violate natural law–or they are all equal in gravity.
 
Yet some of those sins are not just sexual in nature, as there is a consent issue. Any type of consentual sex between two people outside of marriage is sinful. Period. One is not more sinful than the other.
 
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I really hope nobody is actually trying to argue that homosexual sins are the worst… I’d suggest that if you actually hold this position that there may be a “log stuck in your eye”.
 
Yes there are degrees of sin and some are worse, can’t argue with you there
 
If you tied me down and forced me to grade mortal sins, I’d say that masturbation is the least grave, then fornication (because it draws another into sin), then non-procreative sexual acts of all types (because it frustrates the sexual act), then adultery and the breaking of religious vows (betrayal) then the various forms of sexual violence. But this is my own opinion. The equating of non-procreative acts with rape is absurd.
 
If a recent convert committed a homosexual act and a near - Saint committed heterosexual fornication… who do you think is guilty of a worse offence? Just asking .
 
Are homosexual acts worse than abandoning a spouse for another person?
 
And that’s what I’m saying. St. Thomas Aquinas used logic and Scripture to classify sin, including sexual sin. Others choose to operate from emotion and sometimes, perhaps, from progressivist liberalism.
I’ll stick with St. Thomas Aquinas, the Angelic Doctor.
 
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There is a heiarchy in almost all of nature. A heiarchy in heaven of the saints and angels. A heiarchy like the food chain. A heiarchy of truth - abortion is worse and a sin on a greater scale than even torture. I won’t argue with Aquinas because I see these hierarchies all around us in nature and what God has created. Truth has to be objective in order for this to work and lucky for us, it is!
 
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What is the best possible outcome for each of your two scenarios?
 
Rape is rather compounded by the use of violence, yes?
And, while I’m aware of the modern Catechism’s teachings on masturbation, in classical Catholic Moral Theology it is more grave than fornication and adultery, the difference being that masturbation is essentially sex with oneself, and violates natural law.
 
The act of simple fornication is always the least grave sexual sin, in classical Catholic Moral Theology.
As far as whether the near–Saint’s sin would wipe out all the saintly things he or she is done, and all the accrued grace…not so sure about that. Kind of begs the question–have any Saints committed mortal sins, late in life? And if so, how did they react?
 
Oh, understandable. I think it was post 196–abandoned spouse vs. homosexual activity.
 
I guess I’m talking about how much guilt one would incur. A recent convert who committed a homosexual act( which might not be mortal) or a near-saint commiting heterosexual fornication, most likely mortal. I say near- saint because the Saints weren’t known to commit mortal sins.
 
DonQuichote1235 said:
Can someone explain to me why gay people would rather not be ordained? Heterosexual men can also have ‘deep-seated’ heterosexual inclinations. I don’t understand why for gay men it is not good to be ordained?
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I think it is much easier for men with homosexual tendencies to have physical sexual realationships with other men with the same tendencies, than it is for men to pursue and woo a woman’s affection to develop into a sexual relationship; one need only read the astounding statistics on the number of sexual partners the average active homosexual has by the age of 25 compared to the average heterosexual male. And considering that the vast majority (80%) of clerical sex abuse claims in the Catholic Church involve post-pubescent young men (teenagers), the phrase “pedophile priest” is a misnomer, as these are acts of homosexual abuse with minors. And the fact that homosexuality is a psychosexual emotional disorder, if one does not have control over the tendency this sets up a volatile situation.

After the recent scandals and secular courts bankrupting local dioceses around the world, the Church has to be wise on how to deal with men who are struggling with deeply rooted psychological issues, yet seeking to enter the seminary, many owho have apparently joined the priesthood for reasons other than a true vocation and calling from God…
 
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