Popes contradict each other?

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Hi, since Vatican 1 we have the dogma of papal infallibility. I understand that several conditions must be met for a statement of a pope to be infallible. Throughout history there have been many papal documents that I think contradict each other. For example the Ad Extirpanda document allowed torcher of heretics, but much later another pope forbid it. How can we hold the dogma of papal infallibility if there are such contradictions, without just cherry picking the papal documents we like and thus “sacrifice” reason. Thanks.
 
You answered your question in your post. There are certain conditions that must be met to be considered infallible.
 
But many things are not dogmas. I was arguing with someone that even if we ignore scriptural evidence for homosexual acts being a sin, we can still be certain that they are sinful because of what the Church teaches. But he stated the example above about torcher. If we reject the infallibility of the allowance of torchering heretics we also reject the infallibility of homosexuality being a sin, because it too isn’t dogma.
 
Kullervo said:
If we reject the infallibility of the allowance of torchering heretics we also reject the infallibility of homosexuality being a sin, because it too isn’t dogma.
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False equivalence. It was not a Papal document that established the sinfulness of homosexual acts, it was Scripture.
 
Yes, that’s my position too, but we can’t use the argument of the Church’s infallibility, which would settle the thing, can we?
 
Can you direct me to something I should read or listen to?
 
Kullervo said:
argument of the Church’s infallibility
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The original issue was not Church infallibility but Papal infallibility. Popes can express opinions, but not every word that comes out of the Pope’s mouth or pen is infallible dogma. And in the specific case mentioned, homosexual acts being sinful is considered dogma, while torturing heretics is not.
 
whatistrue said:
And in the specific case mentioned, homosexual acts being sinful is considered dogma, while torturing heretics is not.
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As I understand it both are just opinions that could (doesn’t mean they should) change. Has the Church declare that homosexual act being a sin is a dogma? I know there is lots of scriptural evidence for it, more than enough, but has the Church officially infallibly confirmed it or is it just a opinion like the torcher of heretics.
 
Study the Inquisition from a Catholic standpoint and also look into the Protestant treatment of the Anabaptists, the witch hunts, etc. Here’s a video regarding the Inquisition:

 
Kullervo said:
Has the Church declare that homosexual act being a sin is a dogma?
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I don’t know the specific reference offhand and am not in a position to look it up, but I believe that the dogma (or maybe doctrine - not entirely sure) about homosexual acts being sinful is described in the CCC. In either case, whether dogma or doctrine, it is not changeable, while torturing anyone obviously was.
 
But how do we know that torcher of heretics, which was allowed in the papal bull Ad Extripanda, is changeable and this is not?
I’m not arguing for homosexuality not longer being accepted as a sin, I just want to resolve this apperant contradiction.
 
whatistrue said:
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Kullervo:
Has the Church declare that homosexual act being a sin is a dogma?
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I don’t know the specific reference offhand and am not in a position to look it up, but I believe that the dogma (or maybe doctrine - not entirely sure) about homosexual acts being sinful is described in the CCC. In either case, whether dogma or doctrine, it is not changeable, while torturing anyone obviously was.
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Here is the Catechism reference ( 2357):
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm
 
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If you’re Catholic you have to believe in the dogma of the Church.
 
Kullervo said:
But how do we know that torcher of heretics, which was allowed in the papal bull Ad Extripanda, is changeable and this is not?
I’m not arguing for homosexuality not longer being accepted as a sin, I just want to resolve this apperant contradiction.
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I assume English is not your first language, but this is really bugging me.

It’s torture.
 
It’s really not, I’m sorry. It’s my fourth language in fact.
 
Again, there has never been an "Infallible’ dogma (Deposit of Faith) of the Church.
 
Kullervo said:
But how do we know that torcher of heretics, which was allowed in the papal bull Ad Extripanda, is changeable and this is not?
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Well one way to tell is that the Church doesn’t torture heretics now.
 
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