Popular (Mis)depictions of Biblical Stories thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter patrick457
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

patrick457

Guest
As the thread title implies, let’s do a little ‘game’ of sorts in this non-serious thread: name popular (mis)depictions of Biblical stories, either serious or trivial.

1.) Mr. DeMille’s film (and well, just about most depictions of the parting of the Yam Suph/Red Sea/Reed Sea) show the sea dramatically parting from the Israelites’ side. However, the Biblical account (Exodus 14:21-22) says that:

Moses stretched out his hand toward the sea, and the LORD drove the sea apart by a strong east wind (qadim, meaning “east wind” or merely “east”) all that night, and He made the sea into dry land, and the water was divided. So the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on the dry ground, and the waters were for them a wall on their right hand and on their left.

The Israelites were coming from the western direction, from Egypt towards east into the direction of Canaan, and thus if the parting of the sea happened like the movies show it, it would have started to part from the opposite shore (since God parted the sea by a wind somewhere from the eastern direction), finally opening toward the Israelites’ side.

 
Very neat piece of trivia. Now I have a question about the sea that was parted.

A while back I was watching something about biblical translations and there was a segment about the Exodus. Basically what some scholars believe is that the sea that was parted with the “Reed” Sea (maybe seas of reeds indicating a smaller body of water - still a miraculous occurrence though) instead of the Red Sea.

My understanding was that this particular sea/area was a bit further north that the Red Sea and would have made more sense for the Exodus. An additional and extremely interesting point is that, as stated during the segment, some scientist believe there was a major volcanic eruption that caused an earthquake that would have affected this area quite possibly draining this “Reed” Sea and making it passable. Scientific theory never ceases to amaze me in how it proves God’s existence and helps, at east me, better appreciate and understand His glory and greatness.

Any thoughts? On the Red/Reed Sea translation…
 
Does this qualify?:

Find the 3 wise men in the Bible… you can’t. The number is not actually stated.
 
Dirk_Skene said:
Does this qualify?:

Find the 3 wise men in the Bible… you can’t. The number is not actually stated.
Click to expand...
Heh, indeed. And there are certainly not three kings.

Nor are they likely to have shown up at the stable while the Holy Family was still there. Indirect evidence (from the age limit on the Holy Innocents) indicates they may have arrived up to two years after Jesus’ birth.

Usagi
 
OOOH!! I got a few!!

Jonah – wasn’t NECESSARILY swallowed by a whale. Could have been. Bible says “Great Fish.”

The belief that Noah took two of every animal (male and female) with him. That was only if they were unclean. If the animals were clean, he took seven pairs of them.
 
I think they were referring to the fact that they are called ‘magi’ or ‘wisemen.’ That is a difference from a king…

I have a couple of big ones: Eve did not eat an apple! It actually says a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, not specifically an apple.

Also, it never says Paul was knocked from his horse. It says he was knocked to the ground by the flash of light, but does not specifically say he was atop a horse…
 
Dirk_Skene said:
Does this qualify?:

Find the 3 wise men in the Bible… you can’t. The number is not actually stated.
Click to expand...
The unnumbered wise men were also not at the manger / stable.
When they had heard the king they went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy; and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshipped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. Matt 2:9-11 (RSV-CE)
Click to expand...
 
lozeerose said:
Very neat piece of trivia. Now I have a question about the sea that was parted.

A while back I was watching something about biblical translations and there was a segment about the Exodus. Basically what some scholars believe is that the sea that was parted with the “Reed” Sea (maybe seas of reeds indicating a smaller body of water - still a miraculous occurrence though) instead of the Red Sea.

My understanding was that this particular sea/area was a bit further north that the Red Sea and would have made more sense for the Exodus. An additional and extremely interesting point is that, as stated during the segment, some scientist believe there was a major volcanic eruption that caused an earthquake that would have affected this area quite possibly draining this “Reed” Sea and making it passable. Scientific theory never ceases to amaze me in how it proves God’s existence and helps, at east me, better appreciate and understand His glory and greatness.

Any thoughts? On the Red/Reed Sea translation…
Click to expand...
The Hebrew word suph by itself means “reeds,” thus the “Reed Sea” hypothesis (this was pointed out as early as the 11th century by the French rabbi Rashi). However, an alternative hypothesis proposes that the word may be related to the Hebrew suphah (“storm” or “storm-wind”) or soph (“come to an end,” “destroy”), which may refer to the destruction of the Egyptian army there.

Of course, it wouldn’t really make a difference (at least for me) whether the Israelites crossed the Red Sea proper or a more shallow body of water located near it. However, I Kings 9:26 seems to indicate that the Red Sea port of Aqaba is located on Yam Suph. The Hebrews seem to have understood the Red Sea to have been contiguous from the Gulf of Suez to the Gulf of Aqaba.

Thus, some have also proposed that Yam Suph, instead of being an inland lake, refers to bodies of water connected with the Red Sea proper (such as the Gulfs of Suez or Aqaba), pointing out that there may have been marshy areas filled with reeds in the vicinity millenia ago, and that they are filled with coral and thus would have also called in the Greek erythra thalassa (“Red” Sea), which is the phrase used in the Septuagint for Yam Suph.
 
That reminds me. In Luke 2:7, it is said that:

She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

Because of this, mny inspirational stories, sermons, and carols have been made on the innkeeper who gave Mary and Joseph room or the inns who refused them.

However, in extra-biblical literature, the Greek word katalyma (the word Luke uses and the one translated as ‘inn’ in English Bibles) has a wider connotation than “inn;” it can also mean “house,” “guest room” or similar place to rest on a journey. It is a noun form of the verb kataluo, a compound verb that translates literally as “loosen down.”

When Luke speaks of a commercial inn, as he does in 10:36 (in the parable of the Good Samaritan), he uses a different word, pandokheion. The only other place where he uses katalyma is in 22:11, where it refers to the upper room where Jesus and company held the Last Supper, which is clearly not meant to mean “inn.” Mark 14:14 uses the same word to describe the upper room itself, a large second story room in a private home.

During the time of Jesus, the only inns that existed were essentially truck stops for caravans. It was a place for travelers and pack animals to eat, a shelter in which to sleep overnight, a market for supplies for the road and a hangout for prostitutes and other people of bad reputation.

Another thing is that unlike today, Bethlehem was a small town that was not near a major Roman road, so there is no reason to think that there would have been an inn there (and indeed, there is no archeological evidence for the existence of a commercial inn in Bethlehem). With the population of Bethlehem in this period estimated at around a thousand inhabitants (only about a few times bigger than Nazareth, which is estimated to have had 200-400 residents at this time), and no ‘highway’ nearby, the existence of a commercial inn seems unlikely. So what was Luke referring to?

Archeology shows that houses in Bethlehem and its vicinity often had caves as the back of the house where they would keep their prized ox, or beast of burden lest it be stolen, while the guest room (the katalyma) was in the front of the house. Joseph and Mary would have come too late to get the guest room, which would have been totally crowded with the other people who had come because of the census, so the hosts did the best they could by putting them in the back of the house, at the stables.

Alternatively, katalyma can refer to a temporary shelter erected when large crowds are expected, as might have been the case with the census. There would be no “innkeeper” in such an arrangement; rather, people and animals were crowded next to each other in a large open area. The shelter would be a place bustling with activity, noise and cooking fires. If Bethlehem had such a shelter for the census, then a more private accommodation like a stable would certainly have been preferable for the birth of Mary’s Son. Also, poor families sometimes built a shared katalyma to host travelers. In sharing the expense of building and maintaining a common guest room, the burden on each individual household would be reduced.
 
What an interesting thread!

I’m not sure, but the only one I can think of concerns the adulteress who was going to be stoned in the Gospels, but Jesus stopped that from happening (“Let him without sin cast the first stone…”). Lots of people portray this as St. Mary Magdalene (I think even Mel Gibson did in The Passion?) but the woman is never identified as such. I believe this is where her reputation as a prostitute comes from. I have great love for Mary Magdalene, so this particular example is of interest to me. Can anyone else back this up or correct me?
 
adstrinity said:
OOOH!! I got a few!!

Jonah – wasn’t NECESSARILY swallowed by a whale. Could have been. Bible says “Great Fish.”
Click to expand...
Yep. Another trivia: the Septuagint renders the phrase hadag gadol (“the big” or “great fish”) as kētei megalō (“a large fish” or “a large whale” or even “a large sea monster”), which had also led to early Christians depicting Jonah as being swallowed by a serpentine sea monster of sorts!

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9788/jonah1jm9.jpg
 
Here are other “The Ten Commandments” vs. Exodus stuff:

1.) In the film, Moses climbs up to the top of the mount of Sinai where he alone hears God’s commandments while the people are busy creating the Golden Calf below. However, Exodus 19:16-25 to 20:1-21 shows us that the giving of the commandments is a public affair and that it was a separate event from the giving of the Tablets of the Law:

And it was on the third day in the morning there was thunder and lightning and a heavy cloud on the mountain, and the sound of a strong horn so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they took their place at the foot of the mountain. Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire, and its smoke went up like the smoke of a great furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently. When the blast of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses was speaking and God was answering him with a voice.

And the LORD came down upon Mount Sinai, on the top of the mountain, and the LORD called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. And the LORD said to Moses, “Go down and charge the people, lest they force their way through to the LORD to look, and many of them fall. Let the priests also, who approach the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break out against them.” But Moses said to the LORD, “The people cannot come up to Mount Sinai; because you – you charged us, saying, ‘Set bounds around the mountain and sanctify it.’” And the LORD said to him, “Go, get down, and come up, you and Aaron with you, but do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the LORD, lest He break out against them.” So Moses went down to the people and spoke to them. And God spoke all these words, saying: “I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you from the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves…” etc.

…All the people were seeing the thundering and the lightning, and the sound of the horn, and the mountain smoking – and when the people saw it they trembled with fear and they stood from a distance. And they said to Moses, “You speak to us and we will listen, but do not let God speak with us or we will die.” And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, and that the fear of Him may be before you so that you may not sin.” And they stood from a distance, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was.

It was only after loads of instructions and commands – such as instructions for building the Mishkan (Tabernacle) and its necessary furnishings – and eleven chapters later that God finally grants the Tablets of Stone to Moses (31:18):

And when He had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of testimony, tablets of stone written by the finger of God.

(And by the way, while many depictions of Moses show the tablets only engraved on one side, Exodus 32:15 makes clear that they were written on both sides, “on one side and the other”)
 
2.) Many people have the idea that it was Moses who turned the staff into a serpent in Pharaoh’s presence, made water into blood and called forth all the ten plagues. What does the text say?

Exodus 7:10: When Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh, they did so, just as the Lord had commanded them – and Aaron threw down his staff before Pharaoh and his servants and it became a snake.

Exodus 7:19: And the LORD spoke to Moses, “Say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt, over their streams, over their rivers, over their ponds, and over all their pools of water, that they may become blood. And there will be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in wood and stone containers.’”

Exodus 8:5: And the LORD spoke to Moses, “Say to Aaron, ‘Stretch out your hand with your rod over the streams, over the rivers, and over the ponds, and cause frogs to come up on the land of Egypt.’”

Exodus 8:16: And the LORD spoke to Moses, “Say to Aaron, ‘Extend your staff and strike the dust of the ground, and it will become gnats throughout all the land of Egypt.’”

We notice that Aaron delivered the first half of the plagues – afterwards, the one who delivers the other plagues becomes Moses.
 
dove51 said:
What an interesting thread!

I’m not sure, but the only one I can think of concerns the adulteress who was going to be stoned in the Gospels, but Jesus stopped that from happening (“Let him without sin cast the first stone…”). Lots of people portray this as St. Mary Magdalene (I think even Mel Gibson did in The Passion?) but the woman is never identified as such. I believe this is where her reputation as a prostitute comes from. I have great love for Mary Magdalene, so this particular example is of interest to me. Can anyone else back this up or correct me?
Click to expand...
Correct. Mary Magdalene is usually identified with Mary of Bethany (sister of Martha and Lazarus), the “sinful woman” of Luke 7:36-50, and the woman caught in adultery. This is mostly unique to the Western Church though; the East claims that they have always identified them as being separate people.
 
I was kind of thinking. Does Joseph’s ketonet pasim count here (Genesis 37:3)?

http://www.ucmi.org/ucai/common/joseph-coat.jpg

While the Hebrew term ketonet pasim (כתנת פסים) could mean “coat of many colors” since some of the possible meanings of passim are “colorful,” “embroidered” or “striped” (and indeed the translators of the Septuagint understood it thus and rendered the phrase as chitōna poikilon “garment of many kinds,” “multi-colored] garment”), the word also allows for a long garment, coming down to the the hands and feet since another meaning of pasim is “the flat [palms] of the hands/the flat [soles] of the feet” (the 2nd-century Jewish proselyte Aquila of Sinope seems to have understood it thus and rendered pasim as astragalōn, “reaching to the ankles”) or a garment made of fine material, such as silk or fine wool (the Talmudic rabbis understood it to be a silken garment).

Still other hypotheses connect it with the Akkadian kitu pishannu, a ceremonial robe studded with gold ornaments (usually with figures of Babylonian deities), the Phoenician ps “tablet, piece” (suggesting a garment made of patches of material sewn together), or even Akkadian paspasu “brightly colored bird.”

The same phrase is used in 2 Samuel 13:18 to describe Tamar’s clothing (in this case the Septuagint renders it as chitōn karpōtos perhaps meaning “a garment reaching to the wrists”), and thus even if we can’t know for certain what the word means, we can still conclude that this piece of clothing is a special gift, colorful or no.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3166/800pxbenihassanasiatiquwu1.jpg
Detail from wall painting in the tomb of Khnumhotep II (ca. 1890 BC), a provincial governor during Egypt’s Middle Kingdom, at Beni Hasan, Egypt, on the east bank of the Nile, showing a caravan of “Asiatic” nomads from Canaan visiting the Egyptian court. Note the striped and patterned clothing that both the men and women wear.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7071/646pxmarifrescoinvestitvs9.jpg
Detail of a mural fresco from the palace of Zimrilim at Mari in Syria (ca. 18th century BC). Again notice the striped multicolored clothing.
 
A lot of times in art, Moses is shown with two horns of light coming out of his head. This is because Jerome accidentally translated the Hebrew word for “rays” as “horns” in the Vulgate, in reference to the light shining from Moses’ face when he came down from Sinai.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top