Popularity Contest For Priest?

[Salena]

I posted this comment from a priest in another forum. What’s your opinion?

The attached is from EWTN’s “Question and Answer”
Mrs?Ms Doris’ question:

Dear Father,
Why is it our priest to not put an end to disrespectful clothing worn to church. Last Sun.a girl in her late teens or early twenties had a very short skirt on and a top with string like straps with a large tatoo on her back sitting a couple rows in front of us. The lady with her could have been her friend or grandmother. I got very upset that a young woman would come into church like that. I remember when there was a sign up at the rectory years ago saying no slacks allowed. What has happend over the years that we just don’t have respect for Gods home. The answer I get is be glad they are in church. Am I wrong in my thinking?

Thank you,

God bless you.

Happy Easter
Doris

Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 04-02-2004:
Dear Doris, American consensus is one of toleration, multiculturalism, permissiveness. We are not to correct anyone else who does what he wants as long as he is not hurting anyone else. And in turn everybody else is permitted to do what he wants without criticism or correction from another. I am sure that young lady lives according to this standard or lack of standard. What can I say? If a priest would correct her, she may take off in high dudgeon never to return to Church for 30 yeats. I sometimes ask a woman in Church to be bold enough to confront such a dresser with kindness since some girls might respect another woman’s judgment rather than that of any male. God bless. Fr. Bob Levis

Am I wrong or is this priest a coward? It seems to me he is trying to take the burden from himself and place it on our shoulders. Am I bold enough? Sure am I, but is it my place?
I am sick of going to Mass and seeing women half-naked, while my family and myself are trying to worship. The priest smiles and says nothing. If it’s a distraction for me I can only imagine what a distration it must be for a man. All I’m asking is that he comment on this at the podium or in the bullentin. (and every week if he has too!!!)
I’ve raised two children and am now raising a another. Is it my place to confront these women? Is the priest suppose to sit back while we do his business?
In my opinion, I’ve got my job and he’s got his. He doesn’t raise my children and I’m not going to even begin to try to care for “his sheep” in the way he is suppose to. I can dress sexy if I choose to, but that’s not the point. Is Mass the place to do this and is it my job to confront these women who do? Absolutely not!!!
Priest’s should not be a popularity contest, but that’s what is has become. We truly need more Father Corapi’s who are not afraid to take a stand. Does this happen if Protestant Church’s???
I’m so frustrated I could spit!!! __________________

 

[bengal_fan]

Findnmway:

Is it my place to confront these women? Is the priest suppose to sit back while we do his business?
In my opinion, I’ve got my job and he’s got his. He doesn’t raise my children and I’m not going to even begin to try to care for “his sheep” in the way he is suppose to. I can dress sexy if I choose to, but that’s not the point. Is Mass the place to do this and is it my job to confront these women who do? Absolutely not!!!

---

…actually…it is one of your responsibilites as an older (not that you are old, but meaning more mature in your faith) woman to correct the younger woman with love and respect.

Tit. 2:3-5, “Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”

just some food for thought, we all have a responsibility to each other to “spur one another on toward love and good deeds.” (heb. 10:24) and to say it’s the priest’s “job” is to deny that you have any responsibility within the family of God. He has placed you there to not only raise your kids, but to be a light to your brothers and sisters and to the rest of the world.

 

[flick427]

I’d probably look into at least taking the priest’s name off the post .

I know what you are getting at, it IS okay to confront people about being improper and we CAN point it out, but do so respectfully. The best thing is to approach the girl and say, "Can you please come to church wearing something less revealing, we have young men here who don’t need to be distracted and need to be focusing on Jesus…but ask for a name and introduce yourself first…at this point when you finish saying what youhave to say, it is bes to thank them and tell them that you would really like to see them next week at church…you could even give them a hug and make them feel at home.
Also, the preist said “American consensus is one of toleration, multiculturalism, permissiveness”
This I will tell you is WRONG and is EXACTLY the reason that you see Spanish on the ATM. Immigrants are suppose to learn the native language of the country they move to. I would not go to Russia and expect to see English all over the place for me. “Acceptance” is how our Country and Church are loosing their identities by catering to the “little guy”…It is supposed to be a Melting Pot, which means that the people bring their own qualities in and “melt” in with everyone else…you put in just a bit of garlic (a foriegner’s qualities) in the soup (America) and it adds a distinct character…but not too, much, or you will ruin the soup.

 

[bengal_fan]

flick427:

This I will tell you is WRONG and is EXACTLY the reason that you see Spanish on the ATM. Immigrants are suppose to learn the native language of the country they move to. **I would not go to Russia and expect to see English all over the place for me. ** .

again…actually…you probably would see many english signs in many foreign countries because they are trying to be welcoming to their visitors and language can be very divisive. yes, people immigrating here should learn the language (but by that argument we should all be speaking some form of native american…not that i’m saying the spanish are trying to take over the country), but that doesn’t mean we don’t help them get by in the process. we need to have spanish signs in certain parts of the country, but we also don’t want to enable them to not have to learn the language.

 

[nucatholic]

Flick, is English actually the “official” language of America? Can you refer me to some documents that prove this? If America becomes more Hispanic in percentage than any other ethnic group (which we might see in the near future because Hispanic Catholics are more likely to follow the Church’s teachings on birth control and such. They already are more numerous than African Americans) then shouldn’t the language be that of the majority? Can we not have a peaceful coexistence of Languages and Cultures like that of Switzerland which has four official languages(German, French, Italian and Romansch?) Just food for thought…

 

[Salena]

bengal_fan:

…actually…it is one of your responsibilites as an older (not that you are old, but meaning more mature in your faith) woman to correct the younger woman with love and respect.

Tit. 2:3-5, "Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God."

just some food for thought, we all have a responsibility to each other to “spur one another on toward love and good deeds.” (heb. 10:24) and to say it’s the priest’s “job” is to deny that you have any responsibility within the family of God. He has placed you there to not only raise your kids, but to be a light to your brothers and sisters and to the rest of the world.

So you have or are raising children, taking care of a man and a home? I would assume you have for you to give me advice such as this! Sorry, but I have my job and the priest has his.
Do you know how long it took me to reply? I have a six year old with ADD, so it’s rare for me to have more than 30 minutes to myself. The point is that I am doing my job. Why can’t the priest do his?
Here is my challenge to you. Next Sunday walk up to a woman who is dressed in an inappropiate way and tell her so. Come back and let me know how much of an impact you made.
The point is, the laity will think more about what a priest has to say than what we have to say.
For you to tell me what I should be doing I’m assuming you have lived a little yourself.

 

[Salena]

nucatholic:

Flick, is English actually the “official” language of America? Can you refer me to some documents that prove this? If America becomes more Hispanic in percentage than any other ethnic group (which we might see in the near future because Hispanic Catholics are more likely to follow the Church’s teachings on birth control and such. They already are more numerous than African Americans) then shouldn’t the language be that of the majority? Can we not have a peaceful coexistence of Languages and Cultures like that of Switzerland which has four official languages(German, French, Italian and Romansch?) Just food for thought…

When the Irish, Italian, and so forth, came here they learned our language. Why can’t the Hispanic’s do the same?
Yes, we can have a peaceful coexistence, but why is it that so many people have become soft. If you went to Mexico you would have to learn Spanish. Is that bad? Is that expecting too much?
We need to stop pampering everyone. That’s one of the biggest problems today. Fulton Sheen said our courts have become soft because of their own sins. Is that why we don’t expect anything from anyone anymore? Because of our sins?
Liberal thinking is killing us, but we are blinded to it! It you were tough on yourself, you would expect more from others.

 

[bengal_fan]

Findnmway:

So you have or are raising children, taking care of a man and a home? I would assume you have for you to give me advice such as this! Sorry, but I have my job and the priest has his.
Do you know how long it took me to reply? I have a six year old with ADD, so it’s rare for me to have more than 30 minutes to myself. The point is that I am doing my job. Why can’t the priest do his?
Here is my challenge to you. Next Sunday walk up to a woman who is dressed in an inappropiate way and tell her so. Come back and let me know how much of an impact you made.
The point is, the laity will think more about what a priest has to say than what we have to say.
For you to tell me what I should be doing I’m assuming you have lived a little yourself.

by your argument, we are all supposed to sit back and focus on the things that affect us and not worry about anyone else. the priest is doing his job and as the scripture i quoted pointed out, you have a job to do also with the younger women in the family of God. i would not approach a scantily clad woman to tell her she was wrong because it is the place of the more mature women to do that. i would approach a younger man (despite having a wife, job, etc…) if he was hurting his relationship with God. don’t yell at me for “giving you a response like this” yell at paul, he is the one who said it. if you aren’t willing to say something to this girl face-to-face in a spirit of love, you shouldn’t be gossiping about her on this website (i know the story is from a question, but it sounds like you’ve had similar experiences as the woman who posed the question). my point is, yes i understand you are a busy person but we still have to be willing to love the members of our spiritual family and sometimes that has to be in an active way. you might think you are the busiest woman in the world but i assure you, you are not. you have the time to befriend a younger woman and help her to grow in her faith or else paul wouldn’t have said to do it.

 

[nucatholic]

Fidnmway, I don’t think you can really lump the practice of language and culture of other Nationalities with that of American and Western liberalism… I am mainly speaking of the ethnocentrism that is rampant in America. Honestly, we need a greater cultural influence that is less liberal and more steadfast in its faith to come and influence America. I’d rather learn to speak a little Italian or Spanish that have them melt into the disease that is Western culture.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Findnmway:

…Am I wrong or is this priest a coward? It seems to me he is trying to take the burden from himself and place it on our shoulders. Am I bold enough? Sure am I, but is it my place? …In my opinion, I’ve got my job and he’s got his. He doesn’t raise my children and I’m not going to even begin to try to care for “his sheep” in the way he is suppose to.

O.k., well, what should he say if the young woman were to come to him and say, “Father, there is an older lady four rows back who is glaring at me every time I look at her. Can you make her stop?” I think he would be right to suggest that she start by calmly and gently talking to you herself and finding out what the problem might be.

I’m not suggesting that you have ever once glared at the young lady, only that if she’s bothering you, it is not unreasonable to ask you to bear it patiently or to talk to her yourself. In fact, I think you can imagine what your pastor’s life would be like if he decided to jump in and referee every time a parishioner decided somebody else was driving them nuts. Surely you didn’t do that with your kids? At our house, unless somebody was doing something really dangerous, we were expected to start by trying to work it out ourselves.

My brothers told me once that if women could read men’s minds, the Catholic women would all dress like Muslim women. Of course, they were in high school at the time, but they probably have a point. I have no doubt that your own Sunday best would scandalize many if not most older women in the Mideast, not to mention your own great grandmother. It really is a cultural thing.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Findnmway:

When the Irish, Italian, and so forth, came here they learned our language. Why can’t the Hispanic’s do the same?
Yes, we can have a peaceful coexistence, but why is it that so many people have become soft. If you went to Mexico you would have to learn Spanish. Is that bad? Is that expecting too much?
We need to stop pampering everyone.

Yes, well, we used to let the teachers whack the kids across the knuckles with rulers and let the kids ride in the back of pick-ups and station wagons with their feet dangling over the tailgates. We had the “rule of thumb” that allowed beating your wife, if the stick wasn’t bigger than your thumb. Oh, the good old days.

My family came to the US speaking German, a hundred years ago and more. My grandparents spoke it, my dad knew a little, but only what he learned in school… high German, not low German. I know nothing of the customs my great-grandparents observed. What a loss that is. Isn’t it bad enough that it happened to us?

As for making immigrants learn English, be assured that there are plenty of incentives, like being able to get a decent job. And besides, I don’t remember any commandments along the lines of “thou shalt not pamper thy brother”. We are at the service of all. We’ll muddle through somehow.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Findnmway:

When the Irish, … came here they learned our language. Why can’t the Hispanic’s do the same?

Find,

When we Irish came, we spoke the language; we also controlled the Church, to a point where we sometimes drove out of it those who didn’t speak our tongue and couldn’t get pastoral care.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Salena]

nucatholic:

Flick, is English actually the “official” language of America? Can you refer me to some documents that prove this? If America becomes more Hispanic in percentage than any other ethnic group (which we might see in the near future because Hispanic Catholics are more likely to follow the Church’s teachings on birth control and such. They already are more numerous than African Americans) then shouldn’t the language be that of the majority? Can we not have a peaceful coexistence of Languages and Cultures like that of Switzerland which has four official languages(German, French, Italian and Romansch?) Just food for thought…

It’s a known fact that English is the official language and has been. I don’t have “the documents” in front of me to prove this I just assumed it was common knowledge.
So you are saying that if all the German’s move here we are suppose to change our language? No, this is America and Americans speak English.
When the Italian immigrants came here we did not consider changing it for them, but that was back before Americans became
so liberal.

 

[Faithful_2_Rome]

Father Levis…a coward?

No, not at all.

I can see his point… a comment coming from an older (lady) would more than likely NOT produce an attitude if given directly from the priest to the person. However, I see nothing wrong with a priest or deacon making proper dress in church, an issue for modesty in their homily… I give Father Levis a 50/50 on this one…but he is far from a coward.

 

[Salena]

bengal_fan:

by your argument, we are all supposed to sit back and focus on the things that affect us and not worry about anyone else. the priest is doing his job and as the scripture i quoted pointed out, you have a job to do also with the younger women in the family of God. i would not approach a scantily clad woman to tell her she was wrong because it is the place of the more mature women to do that. i would approach a younger man (despite having a wife, job, etc…) if he was hurting his relationship with God. don’t yell at me for “giving you a response like this” yell at paul, he is the one who said it. if you aren’t willing to say something to this girl face-to-face in a spirit of love, you shouldn’t be gossiping about her on this website (i know the story is from a question, but it sounds like you’ve had similar experiences as the woman who posed the question). my point is, yes i understand you are a busy person but we still have to be willing to love the members of our spiritual family and sometimes that has to be in an active way. you might think you are the busiest woman in the world but i assure you, you are not. you have the time to befriend a younger woman and help her to grow in her faith or else paul wouldn’t have said to do it.

Read my post and not between the lines. I was not referring to a particular woman, I was speaking of women, which is more than one. I do not gossip and don’t appreciate being accused of that because I am unhappy with the way other “women” dress.
Also, read the scripture you threw at me again. It does not say I am suppose to “clean house” at my parish. It says “guide”. If I wanted to get into a scripture battle with you I’d throw “many” back at you to prove the priest has a responsibility to take care of a matter such as this.
You really should pay attention to the post before you comment on them. I never said I was “the busiest woman in the world”. How do you know what my day consists of anyway?
All I said was that the priest should make a comment from the pulpit or in the bulletin. I’m sorry you have a problem with this and want to throw stones at me for making such a suggestion. The priest is doing his job? How do you know this since you have no idea where I attend Mass? So you assume he is doing his job, but quote scripture to tell me I’m not doing mine?
If the priest were “doing his job” we wouldn’t be discussing this!

 

[Salena]

BLB_Oregon:

O.k., well, what should he say if the young woman were to come to him and say, “Father, there is an older lady four rows back who is glaring at me every time I look at her. Can you make her stop?” I think he would be right to suggest that she start by calmly and gently talking to you herself and finding out what the problem might be.

I’m not suggesting that you have ever once glared at the young lady, only that if she’s bothering you, it is not unreasonable to ask you to bear it patiently or to talk to her yourself. In fact, I think you can imagine what your pastor’s life would be like if he decided to jump in and referee every time a parishioner decided somebody else was driving them nuts. Surely you didn’t do that with your kids? At our house, unless somebody was doing something really dangerous, we were expected to start by trying to work it out ourselves.

My brothers told me once that if women could read men’s minds, the Catholic women would all dress like Muslim women. Of course, they were in high school at the time, but they probably have a point. I have no doubt that your own Sunday best would scandalize many if not most older women in the Mideast, not to mention your own great grandmother. It really is a cultural thing.

I am not in the Mideast and my great grandmother had no problem with the way I dressed when she was alive. I was a teenager at the time.
Again, I am not talking about one woman. I am talking about an epidemic of women in general coming to Mass without any thought of purity. If you believe Christ is present, then you would have a problem with it also.
Years ago there would be a few women on occasion who would come to Mass dressed inappropiately. That is totally different that the point I’m trying to make. (And no, I don’t glare at them) I’m not asking the priest to take care of every little petty problem either as you accused me of.
There are some Shrines in the United States that have a dress code. I know of one that I recently visited that would not allow women in with sleaveless blouses or dresses or dresses above the knee. They would be asked to leave if they did not dress properly.
I guess those who set these rules have some respect for the presents of Christ.
I was a tomboy as a teen and had an older brother myself, so I know how men think. I guess this is why it is a big issue for me. And maybe that’s why it’s not a big issue for the men?

 

[zzzimbob]

Faithful 2 Rome:

Father Levis…a coward?

No, not at all.

I can see his point… a comment coming from an older (lady) would more than likely NOT produce an attitude if given directly from the priest to the person. However, I see nothing wrong with a priest or deacon making proper dress in church, an issue for modesty in their homily… I give Father Levis a 50/50 on this one…but he is far from a coward.

Faithful2Rome brings up a very good point - the homily. I agree that a personal comment from an older lady could be more effective than the priest saying it himself (although I have seen priests make the comments themselves). However, priests have to notice the inappropriate dress going on, at least when they are greeting people after Mass if not during Holy Communion. You would think that a priest would take the initiative upon seeing this and work it into a homily every once in a while.

 

[MelaneeT]

Our pastor issues a guideline each May reminding everyone what is and is not appropriate for church. It’s pretty general, but specifically says no short shorts or short short skirts. I think it might also say no camisole style tops and for men no tank tops. Here in MN we rarely have issues in winter when we’re all dressed like Eskimos

 

[Poisson]

Faithful 2 Rome:

Father Levis…a coward?

No, not at all.

I can see his point… a comment coming from an older (lady) would more than likely NOT produce an attitude if given directly from the priest to the person. However, I see nothing wrong with a priest or deacon making proper dress in church, an issue for modesty in their homily… I give Father Levis a 50/50 on this one…but he is far from a coward.

I agree, we the lay people can’t leave everything to the priests. We have to be the ones to hold our own accountable as well.
Criticism on how a woman is dressed coming from a priest would not be well recieved from the type of woman who dresses immodestly.

 

[Sheen]

Findnmway:

All I said was that the priest should make a comment from the pulpit or in the bulletin.

Have you approached your pastor/priests and suggested/asked they do so? If so, what was the response you received?