Population crisis

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Ok, so on Catholic radio stations and stuff I hear a lot of people criticizing the belief in “population crisis” and “population time bomb” and saying that it is baloney and the earth will not/cannot be overpopulated. This is often discussed because activists who are concerned about population crisis often encourage artificial birth control. But I haven’t yet heard an explanation from a Catholic source as to why the earth will not be overpopulated. It seems logical that, if there are seven billion people in the world who all make full use of their reproductive systems, say that they each have four children on average. That sums up to an average 28 billion people in the next generation, and if they continue the same trend, then with each generation the population will increase exponentially. I know that you have to factor in death, etc. here but as technology increases less people will die because of improved medicine, so the population will increase at a roughly exponential rate, right? The earth is bound to fill up at some point, right? I’m not advocating birth control or anything, and it’s not like most developed countries have difficulty with population but some countries like parts of India, China, etc. definitely have issues with population, and China has had to take measures to control population. I am just having a hard time understanding what the opponents of the idea of the “population time bomb” have to say to counter this theory. What would the Catholic Church have to say in this regard?
 
Everyone wants to argue about their sources, so let’s just try good old fashioned opinion based upon reading/viewing/listening to various news sources:

North America–Without Mexico, the continent’s population is already under replacement.

South America–Except for the poorer countries, the trend is stable to lower.

Europe–The worst of the bunch in terms of “under”, compounded by the fact that most of the growth segment is from Muslim immigration.

Asia–China already has over 100 million more men than women of prime marrying age (18-35) and with their one child (sometimes two) policy, not getting better anytime soon. I don’t know enough about the other countries except that Japan and South Korea have already peaked.

Australia—Sorry mates, I just know they don’t have as many great tennis players as they did during boomer times! I plead ignorance.

Africa–Still growing and becoming more religious (both Catholic and Muslim) unless Mrs. Gates gets her way.

Summary: Trend worldwide is down slightly. Reasons are numerous (and thoroughly discussed in other threads)

Everybody should be able to pick this apart or add to it, so have at it! 😃
 
The “population crisis” has to do with too many people in one specific place. The earth has many unpopulated areas that can handle millions of people, they are simply not well developed which costs money. Slowly, development will occur with extreme necessity (which is overdo).
 
Ok, so on Catholic radio stations and stuff I hear a lot of people criticizing the belief in “population crisis” and “population time bomb” and saying that it is baloney and the earth will not/cannot be overpopulated. This is often discussed because activists who are concerned about population crisis often encourage artificial birth control. But I haven’t yet heard an explanation from a Catholic source as to why the earth will not be overpopulated. It seems logical that, if there are seven billion people in the world who all make full use of their reproductive systems, say that they each have four children on average. That sums up to an average 28 billion people in the next generation, and if they continue the same trend, then with each generation the population will increase exponentially. I know that you have to factor in death, etc. here but as technology increases less people will die because of improved medicine, so the population will increase at a roughly exponential rate, right? The earth is bound to fill up at some point, right? I’m not advocating birth control or anything, and it’s not like most developed countries have difficulty with population but some countries like parts of India, China, etc. definitely have issues with population, and China has had to take measures to control population. I am just having a hard time understanding what the opponents of the idea of the “population time bomb” have to say to counter this theory. What would the Catholic Church have to say in this regard?
Good question! Personally I think if the U.S. doesn’t fix the obesity issues then the population will never live long. If correct, the Us rates in deaths and sickness is a an all time high. But the weight issue in the U.S. is one of the worst. The effects of obesity are many (infertility being one). I think if america is going to have any major population increase, the country has to help make some changes. Cause we all know that the “teens moms”, media, and society are all doing there part to try and preach that holding virginity as something sacred is wrong. God help us!
 
@compsciguy: the Church, in a sense, already has spoken about “overpopulation”. The idea of responsible parenthood, as set forth in Humane Vitae, asks the couple to prayerfully discern 1) to what God is calling them at that point in their lives; 2) their responsibilities to each other; 3) their responsibilities to their existing family, and 4) their responsibility to society. It is specifically one of the factors to be accounted for in the discernment.

That being said, this is obviously a complicated topic. I do think it is fair to say that there is a resource distribution problem (i.e., a political/government problem) in that there is enough food to go around, but how to distribute it effectively? Is everyone to consume resources at the American rate? Is there an element of racism in some strains of concern about population growth? Perhaps.

Also as noted upthread, in many parts of the world, the population is reproducing at below replacement rate. One also must take into account that ‘sky is falling’ population predictions have been standard for hundreds of years now, always incorrect.

If the world ever truly came to the point where there was no more room, I think existing Catholic thought on responsible parenthood would permit a couple to use their prudential judgment to postpone pregnancy and possibly limit family size.

Thoughts, anyone?
 
Hello Comp/Sci/Guy,

I actually don’t know what the Catholic Church says in this regard but I have some ideas of my own regarding your points.

First off, science fights against disease and death…but with only a relative amount of success. New ‘drug-resistant’ viruses are appear all the time. And science has had marginal success in ‘saving’ people from catastophic earthquakes, sunami’s, etc. The next super-volcano (in Wyoming. perhpas?) may spew enough ash into the atomosphere to cull a significant portion of the herd of man.

Second, the earth overall, and it’s various regions within, will only support X number of people at any given time and/or place. It’s just economics. The free-market, and the individual responsibility it entails ('If you can’t feed 'em, don’t breed 'em") works to keep population closer to regional support thresholds better than statist schemes to ‘End Hunger’ and provide ‘Universal Healthcare’. Do you ever wonder why some nations that have been around for over a thousand years don’t ‘fill up’ (England, Gernamy, France, etc) whlie other nations that have been around for barely over a century or much less are starving or have to implement ‘One-Child’ policies and forced abortions (North Korea, China)? But both systems, indeed every system, is subject to the law of ‘X Resources Will Only Support N People’.

These are not pretty facts or theories. But they do counter the concern that one day, ‘The earth is bound to fill up’. In as much as they are true, I would submit that they are ‘Catholic’ claims.

Bill G
 
It seems logical that, if there are seven billion people in the world who all make full use of their reproductive systems, say that they each have four children on average. That sums up to an average 28 billion people in the next generation, and if they continue the same trend, then with each generation the population will increase exponentially.
First, use paragraphs. Makes it much more friendly to read.

Second, this is a complicated topic. Many factors to consider: population growth and distribution, natural increase, migration, age and sex distribution (population pyramids), urbanization, women, health, and the environment.

Third, we are not concerned with expotential population growth, but rather a population transition. Population transition is the shift in population due changes in factors mentioned above. Eventually, the transition enters a mature stage and populations level out. This has already occured in developed nations.

Kindly,

James
 
According to who? They’re obviously pretty biased.
They are biased by truth. Which is not a bias-- but realism.

As to one source of recommendation – Catholic Answers (who owns this site) has had the Pres. on the Radio show.
 
Ok, so on Catholic radio stations and stuff I hear a lot of people criticizing the belief in “population crisis” and “population time bomb” and saying that it is baloney and the earth will not/cannot be overpopulated. This is often discussed because activists who are concerned about population crisis often encourage artificial birth control. But I haven’t yet heard an explanation from a Catholic source as to why the earth will not be overpopulated. It seems logical that, if there are seven billion people in the world who all make full use of their reproductive systems, say that they each have four children on average. That sums up to an average 28 billion people in the next generation, and if they continue the same trend, then with each generation the population will increase exponentially. I know that you have to factor in death, etc. here but as technology increases less people will die because of improved medicine, so the population will increase at a roughly exponential rate, right? The earth is bound to fill up at some point, right? I’m not advocating birth control or anything, and it’s not like most developed countries have difficulty with population but some countries like parts of India, China, etc. definitely have issues with population, and China has had to take measures to control population. I am just having a hard time understanding what the opponents of the idea of the “population time bomb” have to say to counter this theory. What would the Catholic Church have to say in this regard?
First, we have 7 billion people on this earth, and yes, that number is increasing, although not at exponential rates since many cultures are in population decline.

The science of it says that the earth absorbs enough energy from the sun to sustain 50 billion people (and that’s a good measure of sustainable use because things like oil will run out, while renewable energy sources on earth all derive their energy from the sun).

So to be clear: the earth is not anywhere near it’s population limit and will not be so for at least 200 years (and that assumes no mass death events like plagues, wars, etc).

So what is the problem at present?

Efficiency is one: how do we harvest energy in efficient manners? Oil cartels buy efficient design patents in order to continue to develop revenue, so most products continue to rely on technologies that should have been obsolete 25 years ago. Nuclear power, though not expressly renewable, is the cleanest form of energy on earth… it’s also been safe for the last 30 years of development… and yet how many commecial nuclear power stations have been built in America in the last 3 decades? Zero… because there’s an atmosphere of fear and a lot of funding to keep clean and efficient nuclear power out.

And second, distribution: we naturally WANT to have the most and the best stuff for ourselves. People are bemoaning America’s poor economy… while “poor” americans are still more rich than 95% of the world. There is more than enough corn, soy, and other products to sustain the entire world easily with ZERO starvation… but fields go unplanted to maintain sustainable American farm wages (not necessarily a terrible thing, we don’t want an underclass of peasant farmers either). The reality is that the world has grown economically at unequal paces, such that some people cannot afford the rates required to sustain the ultra-efficient farmers who need to make a living. So distribution of resources (energy) is a real problem.

Next, what about in 200 years?

Well, surprisingly human societies tend to police their own population levels. As opportunities and property (land) options run out, people feel like they are constrained not only to fewer resources NOW, but also to less possibility of gaining more resources later. The result of this is that people feel that more children will result in a decreased share of standard of living (the I can’t afford a baby excuse) and that the child will not have as many opportunities to succeed either. As a result, as land and opportunities for growth are consumed, people are NATURALLY less inclined to have children. We see this in the United States (whites feeling that socially mobility is limited or downwards so they have smaller families, while immigrants feel great opportunities compared to their nation of origin and have large families), Europe, and China. In fact, China is in trouble because their population is set to shrink by 100 million soon.

So don’t worry so much about the population and not having children, the people will take care of that naturally. Worry instead about the justice of the energy system we currently use (including food), and how that energy is distributed around the globe.
 
http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws..../the-worlds-population-concentrated-small.png

Entire population of the world could fit in state of Arkansas in 2003

Sources say the global population will level out at around 9.2 billion in 2050 and start to decline. In 1990 it was said the world could feed 35 billion

Raj Krishna, Indian economist has said India could provide the whole world’s food supply by increasing crop yields

China is not overpopulated, it has less than 60% as many people per square mile as the United Kingdom. China is 80th in the world for population density, where 1st has the highest population density. Gibraltar is listed 5th, Netherlands listed 28th. China has a fertility rate of 1.5. per family. You need 2.1 to keep population steady, if the fertility rate continues at the number it is in China there will be demographic crisis, too many elderly for population to support. One child policy is a disaster, it has led to 35000 forced abortion per day. Because of the shortage of children, particularly girls, every year 70000 children are kidnapped in China and trafficked within China and parents often want to find a bride for their son early. Parents pay a trafficker to find them a girl to be their future boy’s wife. Boys are also trafficked because of preference of boys in the culture

India has a lower population density than some European countries

When you see images of overcrowded developing cities, you do not see the miles of countryside which is barely populated in nearly every country
 
http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws..../the-worlds-population-concentrated-small.png

Entire population of the world could fit in state of Arkansas in 2003

Sources say the global population will level out at around 9.2 billion in 2050 and start to decline. In 1990 it was said the world could feed 35 billion

Raj Krishna, Indian economist has said India could provide the whole world’s food supply by increasing crop yields

China is not overpopulated, it has less than 60% as many people per square mile as the United Kingdom. China is 80th in the world for population density, where 1st has the highest population density. Gibraltar is listed 5th, Netherlands listed 28th. China has a fertility rate of 1.5. per family. You need 2.1 to keep population steady, if the fertility rate continues at the number it is in China there will be demographic crisis, too many elderly for population to support. One child policy is a disaster, it has led to 35000 forced abortion per day. Because of the shortage of children, particularly girls, every year 70000 children are kidnapped in China and trafficked within China and parents often want to find a bride for their son early. Parents pay a trafficker to find them a girl to be their future boy’s wife. Boys are also trafficked because of preference of boys in the culture

India has a lower population density than some European countries

When you see images of overcrowded developing cities, you do not see the miles of countryside which is barely populated in nearly every country
Excellent (name removed by moderator)ut. You made my point better than I.
 
When you see images of overcrowded developing cities, you do not see the miles of countryside which is barely populated in nearly every country
This is an excellent point, and I’ll use it to reenforce my statement that the world has a distribution problem and not a population problem:

The ability to have suburban sprawl in the United States is made possible by two factors: availability of transportation and presence of functional road systems… something sorely lacking in developing cities and their surrounding areas. Those countrysides are bare precisely because the means to build the infrastructure to allow people to gain and live on land outside the city crowding are not available for want of funds and distribution of resources. Starvation in the world, at present, is the fault of the broken nature of man’s inability to provide charitable distribution.
 
Ok, so on Catholic radio stations and stuff I hear a lot of people criticizing the belief in “population crisis” and “population time bomb” and saying that it is baloney and the earth will not/cannot be overpopulated. This is often discussed because activists who are concerned about population crisis often encourage artificial birth control. But I haven’t yet heard an explanation from a Catholic source as to why the earth will not be overpopulated. It seems logical that, if there are seven billion people in the world who all make full use of their reproductive systems, say that they each have four children on average. That sums up to an average 28 billion people in the next generation, and if they continue the same trend, then with each generation the population will increase exponentially. I know that you have to factor in death, etc. here but as technology increases less people will die because of improved medicine, so the population will increase at a roughly exponential rate, right? The earth is bound to fill up at some point, right? I’m not advocating birth control or anything, and it’s not like most developed countries have difficulty with population but some countries like parts of India, China, etc. definitely have issues with population, and China has had to take measures to control population. I am just having a hard time understanding what the opponents of the idea of the “population time bomb” have to say to counter this theory. What would the Catholic Church have to say in this regard?
First of all, this began in 1968 with a book by Paul Ehrlich titled The Population Bomb. It was discredited. What you can see is the 1971, revised edition here. The cover tells you the story.

amazon.com/Population-Bomb-PAUL-R-EHRLICH/dp/0345021398/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342645249&sr=1-5

The following graphic is based on the CIA World Factbook of 2011.

indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx

This chart shows that world population growth is slowing and will continue to decline.

npg.org/facts/world_pop_year.htm

There is no crisis. Millions of children are dying every year, not counting those aborted.

worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/child_hunger_facts.htm

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
There are biased people on both sides, so it IS helpful to link arguments to sources without a direct dog in the fight. Here’s one:

cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

The CIA compiles a massive amount of information on nations. This link provides the total fertility rate of every major country on earth. It is a non-controversial GIVEN in the field of demographics that in the long run (centuries), an average 2.1 TFR is required for a population to remain constant. Virtually no wealthy industrialized nation on earth has a TFR over 2.1. Most are far BELOW that.

Demograpghers again widely agree that there is a natural TFR curve that occurs. Poor, uneducated agrarian societies tend to have high fertilty rates. Wealthy, urban and educated societies tend to have lower fertility rates. When a culture makes the transition from the former to the latter, the TFR decline seems to happen a generation or two AFTER the rest of the socio-economic transition ocurs. That transition period is one in which people still tend to have lots of babies, but the benefits of reliable nutrition, sanitation and medicine cause survival rates previously unheard of and population explodes.

This patten is NOT recent, nor dependent on contraception. Demographers have noticed this pattern of TFR trends way back centuries. (Yes, wealthy, urban, educated populations occurred before New York and LA were built!) Surprisingly, these wealthier families have tended for centuries to have smaller families (2-3 kids), even in cultures where contraception was unknown or considered reprobate.

Disclosure: now I’m moving beyond consensus into my own observations and research. Contrary to popular belief, earlier eras of humans were NOT morons because they lacked ipads and hybrid cars. In fact, we moderns are amazingly ignorant about our own bodies. In the 1850’s people either raised some livestock themselves at some point in their lives or had family who did. They had an inkling that mammals display symptoms when they are fertile. They wouldn’t have felt the need to name it (NFP), or call it a system or expect that their doctor would be able to help them learn it. It was part of what they’d call common sense! They were able to regulate their family sizes without needing to use medical technology to alter their bodies.

But as urbanization became a multi-generational way of life, some of that earthy common sense was lost. People forgot that our biology wasn’t all that different from animals. And when contraception came along and promised the ability to have sex, have no babies AND not have to keep the pants on so many days a month, it got people’s interest. Having eagerly adopted it, it only took a generation for people to forget altogether that they’d always had other ways of regulating family size. But the side effect of contraception is that it fundamentally makes having babies unrelated to sexual intimacy. This makes it MUCH less likely that the couple will seriously re-evaluate the need to avoid pregnancy and allows selfish reasons for being closed to life to go unexamined. (Believe me, you examine the reason when you are hot, bothered and frustrated - NFP). The end result of contraception (my assertion) is that cultures in which it is celebrated overshoot the low side TFR correction and remain at below-replacement levels indefinately.

Now back to the objective facts. The UN periodically updates global population projects. Their current projection has us headed upwards by billions more by the end of the century before leveling off. But underneath all their high tech models and impressive statistical calculations lies this HUGE fly in the butter (quote from UN Population Division):

"The second component of the projection model deals with countries once they have completed the demographic transition, and reached Phase III and potentially sub-replacement fertility. A time series model
is used for projecting fertility, assuming that in the long term the total fertility will approach the replacement-level of 2.1. " (Chapter V: Assumptions Underlaying the 2010 Revision)

What this techno speak means is that UN population projections ASSUME countries will rebound to TFRs of 2.1 relatively quickly. They do some academic hand-waving about why they settled on this assumption, but fail to acknowledge that such a thing has NEVER happened since the widespread adoption of contraception. Countries like Russia and Japan where contraception have been considered socially meritorious since the 1940’s have TFR’s down below 1.5 and there is no rebound in sight. Some Euro nations have recovered slightly from the low, to higher 1’s, but nobody has restored even a medium term trend at 2.1 other than occasional outlier years.

In short, there is serious academic reason to doubt the UN population projections that are based on assumptions in contradiction with observable facts on the ground in all developed nations. This is such a serious flaw in the methodology that I cannot believe that it is NOT political in origin. The Malthusian alarmists are so entrenched in the NGO community, that they aren’t interested in hearing that population stabilization is something that will take care of itself when equitable, just, stable and prosperous development occurs globally.

Instead, they are so hell-bent on speeding up the transition via promoting contraceptives, sterilization and abortions in the third world that they don’t care that the long term outcome is likely to be a population implosion.
 
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