Porn, what up with that?

[GratefulDad]

On the one hand, I agree that pointing out the problem of porn is not always helping the situation, but I think it is walking a thin line to say that the wife can do more to help the situation. Yes spouses should be supportive when the other has an addiction… but you have to be very careful in what you saying and I know you are… but I still don’t really feel comfortable with what the OP said about how it it somewhat the spouses actions that determine whether or not the other spouse will sin…

I think the reason we talk about pornography on here so much is because there seem to be quite a few more women than men on here… so it is just a “common” problem that women experience. It is much more common than I thought.

I have been married for 1.5 years and I always thought my husband was a gentleman and absolutely innocent (yeah right) but I did once find that he had been looking at porn while I was away on a business trip. !!! I was lying in bed with him that night and I said “So, J, are we particularly horny these days?” and he said “uh… yeah?” and I said “yeah I saw so…” and he wasn’t really sure what I was talking about and then I saw the light go off in his head. He was mortified that I had found out. Personally I didn’t think it was a HUGE deal because I thought it was rather common. It seemed to offend him more than it offended me. He has apologized over 100 times. I haven’t caught him since, and I am thinking he hasn’t really done it but who knows for sure?

Definitely the fact that it is so widely available is a huge part of the problem…

I do give my husband attention… just as he gives me, but it really irks me to think that if I just did my wifely duties better and more, he wouldn’t ever look at porn again… I guess it is more complicated than that.

"manualman — You know what is a good analogy? Who bears the guilt and blame for 9/11? Terrorists, obviously.

At risk of raising the ire of every republican on the board, might I suggest that we sure did and do make it easy for muslims to hate our culture. Does it justify what they did? No. Does the greed, debauchery and exploitation of our culture show glaringly bad in the Third World? You bet.

So how about it OP? Is America’s culture as much to blame for 9/11 as wives are for their husbands’ porn sins? Or is it totally different? Worth discussing."

These quotes from the Bible and CCC come to mind.

The Church upholds St. Paul’s teaching regarding conjugal chastity:

1 Corinthians 7: 4-5

4 A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.

5 Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.

=========================
John Paul II also says that if the only reason a couple is having sex is to transmit life, then they may be in danger of using each other rather than loving each other (see Love & Responsibility p. 233).

Also, John Paul describes the “beatifying experience” of conjugal union as a foretaste of the joys of heaven (see TB, Dec 16, 1981 and Jan 13, 1982). In Love & Responsibility, by his detailed discussion of the husband’s responsibility - out of authentic love for his wife - to see that she achieves sexual climax (see Love & Responsibility pp. 270-278).

 

[Good_Daughter]

I’d like to say a huge thank you to GhostMan for his OP. What an excellent perspective for wives like myself to consider. Fortunately, my husband has a few friends who, like him and yourself, “fight the fight”. I never mind the time he spends with them, in fact, I find it builds him up, as a man.

 

[deb1]

Good post from the OP. No flaming from me. There have been times when the attitude of other wives towards their husbands have disturbed me. For some reason our society doesn’t view women who are constantly negative and cruel to their spouse as being verbally and emotionally abusive.

 

[jmdana]

We have discussed this subject in my bible study group on several occasions. The “occasions of sin” are all around us, and as men tend to be visual creatures, porn would tend to draw them in. I definitely understand the OP’s points. The important thing is to remember that every image (no matter how airbrushed) is a real person. She is someone’s wife, or mother, or daughter. Any activity that uses another person solely for your own jollies is sinful, it robs that person of their part of their God given dignity. Pray for yourself to be strong. Pray for your husband to be strong. Pray for all men to be strong.

 

[GFarmer]

I do give my husband attention… just as he gives me, but it really irks me to think that if I just did my wifely duties better and more, he wouldn’t ever look at porn again… I guess it is more complicated than that.

It is more complicated then that…but don’t quit trying.

I guarantee you that intimacy between spouses is 10,000% better than the best porn!

Porn is a very poor substitute for marital relations. I would challenge the women on this site to initiate daily relations with your husbands (and for you NFPers do it 21 of 28 days) if you can monitor your husbands use of porn (it will drop to almost zero) in addition after 30 days tell me how your overall relationship is. I initiated this 2.5 years ago (after 23 years of marriage) we went from 2 x per month to almost daily. This almost daily includes 20-30 minutes of aloneness where we talk openly about our day, and any issues. I have repeatedly told my wife that this is not only the best part of my day but something I look forward to when the day is going wrong!

Good luck!

 

[gambino]

Ghostman,
Amen…Brother. Women, listen to this guy. Porn is a huge temptation for young men. Our society not only legitimizes it but glorifies it as well. Lives and marriages can be saved with what he wrote. I know when I struggled with it, it was because I wasn’t feeling respected at work or by my wife. I was always falling short in her book and I was too afraid to admit it (her friend’s H was caught looking at porn, she said that she wouldn’t be with someone who did that). Sin is like mold. It thrives in the damp darkness of secrecy. Ladies, don’t bite off on thinking that you CAUSED the sin, you didn’t. But sitting idle and blaming the sinner by becoming more distant is leading to the distruction of marriages.

The bottom line is guys and husbands in particular need prayer and support. Don’t minimize the sin but also understand that it is not really like an affair either. We aren’t looking for another person at all. Intead, most guys are yearning for something you as the spouse can provide… 1.) Most importantly, leading us towards God. We are supposed to be the spiritual head of the family, but we run out of gas from time to time. We need your help. 2.) We need YOU! Not just your body, but your love and more importantly your respect. Make us your hero and let us know that. We will respond with more love than you’ve ever seen!

 

[Belle10]

Interesting fact about pornography. The english word is derived from two ancient Greek words:

Ponhrovß (poneros) - The evil one.
and
**Graphê ** - to make an Image of

Wow. I’m not surprised, just surprised I never heard this before. We need someone to start a PR campaign with just this!

Perhaps we need to just be more upfront while dating. Ask him straight out: Do you look at porn? Do you see anything wrong with looking at it? Do you think it’s a normal part of being a guy?

His responses will tell you a lot, and so will his demeanor while giving them.

When my DH said he definitely didn’t want a “typical” bachelor party (read: stripper) I was very happy.

 

[Enoch]

Wow. I’m not surprised, just surprised I never heard this before. We need someone to start a PR campaign with just this!

There’s more where that came from. When you look at the true origin of the word “porn” it can be quite an eye opener:

**porn-ê ** , hê
A. harlot, prostitute, Archil.142, Ar.Ach.527, etc. (Prob.from pernêmi, because Greek prostitutes were commonly bought slaves.)
IOW… Pronography = An image of a woman being used as a bought slave.

**porn-euô , **
A. prostitute, mostly in Pass., of a woman, prostitute herself, be or become a prostitute, Hdt.1.93, Eup.67, Lys.Fr.59; of a man, Aeschin.1.52, 119, D.19.233.

porno-kopos , ho,
A. one who has commerce with prostitutes, fornicator, Men.1057,LXXPr.23.21.
IOW… Pornography = Men spening thier money on images of slave women fornicating with other men.

**porn-eia **, Ion. porn-eiê , hê,
A. prostitution, Hp.Epid.7.122, etc.; of a man, D.19.200; fornication, unchastity, Ev.Matt.19.9: pl., 1 Ep.Cor. 7.2.
II. metaph., idolatry, LXX Ho.4.11,al.
**IOW… Pronography = Image of illicit sexual intercourse adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18 sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11, metaph. the worship of idols of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols **

porno-di^daska^los , ho, hê,
A. teacher of fornication, Aristaenet.1.14.
IOW… Pornography = Images that teach one how to fornicate.

 

[jwashu]

You know, once upon a time I would have agreed with your premise GM. I was married and totally went over and beyond with my husband, tried my best to overlook serious, serious character flaws in him, always did all that I could to build him up. I was very giving and generous in the way that you would think would help him to avoid temptation, but as I discovered I was only helping to feed a very disordered addiction to the point that things were seriously out of control. I had really hoped that this might be the way that I could “reach” him. Then one day I discovered in his drawer in his office evidence of a porn habit, and checking the history on our home computer and his business laptop confirmed it was frequent, pervasive, and disturbing.

I was completely repulsed and finally understood why there had never been any true intimacy between us. When I backed away from him in that regard, he forced things onward, and I guess why not. He had already trained himself to view women as objects, to view what should be a very giving unitive act as something totally selfish. It just follows logically that that is where it would end up with him.

So, the point that I am trying to make is…women really do not have the type of influence that you are trying to suggest that they have. Porn is completely disordered and destructive. When a man is involved with porn, it comes across to his wife because there is a lack of intimacy and a very selfish aspect to relations. Porn use damages marital relationships.

IMO, when a man is involved with porn, he robs himself of true intimacy and true satisfaction, even in his relations with his wife.

For the OP, I want to say I agree with you on many levels. Most importatnly that it’s a 2 way street. Women can do things to help their man overcome porn (or any addiction) and men can help their wife in the same way.

Again, we are partily responsible for the salvation for our spouses.

What I have quoted above from dulcissima is a PRIME example of that. It sounds like she was doing her part, but he was not doing his.

This is what I believe drives many of the rants you see on this board. Many times people aren’t as committed as they should be, the marraige isn’t 100 / 100 but 100/ 50 and that won’t work as she experienced.

While I also agree with how bad porn is I would encourage some people though to take a step back. It’s bad, we ALL know that, we know the damage it can cause etc… but just because a man looks at porn a few times dosen’t mean he is “addicted” like it’s a disease. It means he has been negatively influenced by our cluture and committend a mortal sin. Just like useing contraception, like stealing, etc… etc… That’s NOT the end of the world nor the end of a marraige. It’s IS a grevious matter thant must be addressed though. Like other mortal sins it dosen’t just effect that person but many others as well.

I believe at times we have to work on being a little less judegemental with our spouses. I fail in many ways often, as does my wife. We discuss it, admit it and move forward together, that is the only way our marraige survives. I’m not perfect and she doesn’t hold me to that and I don’t her. We demand fedility and honesty, with those and with God I believe we make it.

So my point is not to DARE say porn is ok, I’m not. What I’m saying though is finding a website link or a Playboy dosen’t mean you marraige is over and your spouse is addicted to porn. They are probably in a state or mortal sin though, address it as such until you find out otherwise. If they indeed are addicted, then approach that as an addiction as well.

Why? because she is correct “IIMO, when a man is involved with porn, he robs himself of true intimacy and true satisfaction, even in his relations with his wife” This can easily be the eventual result which can end a marraige. Marraige is a convenant. We renew our convenant with our spouse through martial act, just like we renew our Covenant with God at Mass through the Eucharist. What happens when we don’t attaned Worship for a while? That same distancing that happens with God when we miss Mass happens in our Marraige when we don’t focus on each other and renew that covenant often as well.

Joe

 

[Ailina]

I can’t speak for all men, nor would I. I can speak for myself and for men I’ve talked with. Godly men will at time, when they’re feeling comfortable with each other, speak of the fight they have against looking at these images.

Many of us do fight that. It’s a siren song calling out to us: look at me, I’m beautiful (airbrushed); I want you (you’re money); I’ll do anything you want (give me your money). I’m young and firm (airbrushed); The lies are as old as time, but they are re-used for a reason: they work on many men.

It’s a constant fight for some of us to stay clear of that. There are times when the fight is easy. It doesn’t even seem like one. The temptations are distant and easily overcome. There are other times when it is not so easy, when the fight is in the gutter, hand-to-hand and the outcome is unclear. Even if we win every time, we still feel dirty for having to fight that fight.

When I look at the difference in the temptations there are generally two components: my walk with God and my wife’s treatment of me. There should only be one: my walk with God, but I am human and affected by how she treats me.

My walk with God is my own responsibility and I know that the closer He allows me to walk with Him the easier the battles of life are, including porn. I must do my part in this portion.

The real gist of my post is how much I am influenced by my wife. When she honors and respects me, covets my touch (in all ways, not just “that touch”), when she flirts with me and lets me know that I am still desirable as a man in spite of the slight paunch and receding hair, when she treats me as the man of the house and makes me feel wanted, my fight is so easy. I laugh at temptation; I mock it and skip past it carefree and whistling a happy tune.

I would ask you women who think your husbands struggle (I say struggle, not those who have given themselves over to sin, but those who fight) if you are helping him or if you are part of the fight? Regardless of if you know it or not, you’re either part of the solution or part of the problem.

NOTE: You are not responsible for your husband’s sin. I do not make excuses for his failing the fight. This is simple a post about how you can affect the outcome in one way or another. When he fails, it’s on him. When he succeeds in overcoming temptation, however, I believe it is at least partly due to your participation.

Women, we need your help. The entire world’s against us here. We have only our own conscience and your support as weapons. It’s easy to slam a husband who fails (not one who is given over to fail, but one who – on a rare occasion – gives over), but can you honestly say you’re doing everything that you can. Again, I know that when my wife is doing all the positive “wifey” things that tell me she’s content, happy, loves AND desires me, my battle is won.

I will go out on a limb and say that the average man who is failing with this fight does not have a wife doing everything she can to help him. Go ahead, skewer away. I know that I’m now going to get blasted. In my experience, as with men I’ve personally talked with, this is the case. We have great difficulty winning this war when you’re either actively dismissing us in one way or another or you’re just not there.

You want a husband who wins? Then, respect him, honor him, touch him frequently – on the arm, the back, the shoulder, the face. Remind him of the softness of a real woman’s touch. .

Porn is like the ghost in the machine. Except that sometimes the wife doesn’t know it. I had no idea how easy it is to get porn off the Internet because I never went looking for it. My ex did, but he didn’t tell me that. So how the heck did I contribute to his sin if I didn’t even know he was sinning in the first place??? Ditto for the porn chat rooms; I thought he was working, like he has been from the start of our marriage (which predates the Internet, btw). He is employed in the computer industry had has always spent hours on the computer at home (which I will admit was something we often disagreed about). How was I to know he was chatting up others for sex when he was very careful to hide it?

All that behavior resulted in him walling himself off from me. It’s hard to communicate and be affectionate with a wall. Looking at all that stuff and chatting with those people changed him, and he could no longer see clearly. It didn’t matter how affectionate and loving I was in the end (and believe me, I bent over backwards to try to save our marriage, but he thought I was the one being deceitful).

Internet porn is killing a lot of marriages because it is so easy to hide, right within the four walls of the family home. It’s like fighting something you can’t see for a lot of women.

 

[whatevergirl]

I agree with your post, Ghostman. I think however, that men who are addicted to porn, in many cases, have problems that stem back to childhood, and how their dads treated their moms, or how they were taught to treat women. Men who are addicted to porn, if you read a lot of those threads on here, seem to ignore their wives who are trying to initiate intimacy with them…who do everything in their power to be loving and kind wives to them. These men are addicted to fantasies, and have a hard time dealing with real life commitment. That’s different than the man who occasionally takes a peek at porn floating through his email. The person who might open it occasionally, isn’t the same as the man who ignores and mistreats his wife, to retreat into his porn/fantasy world in which he is addicted to. But–what would make a man look in the first place? It could be because he is not satisfied at home–it could also mean that he doesn’t see anything wrong with a peek now and again. I also read a few posts here, where the men started viewing the porn when they were teens. So, for many men–a wife’s interaction with them, really doesn’t have a whole lot to do with it. It’s a slippery slope, to be sure. So, your thread makes a lot of sense, but from what I have read on here, porn can really get a choke hold on some men, and their marriages, despite a wife’s best efforts.

 

[chevalier]

Many of us do fight that. It’s a siren song calling out to us: look at me, I’m beautiful (airbrushed); I want you (you’re money); I’ll do anything you want (give me your money). I’m young and firm (airbrushed); The lies are as old as time, but they are re-used for a reason: they work on many men.

Oh yes. Even a simple guy with a freeware graphics editing program can do surprising things. It’s so easy.

I could tell you what’s alluring in some of it, but… but maybe let’s better not. Not even for reference. For what’s offputting in it, that’s the artificial nature and the lewd vibe… it being all about money. That or abuse - some of those models can actually look quite sad. How many have been abused into posing?

It’s a constant fight for some of us to stay clear of that. There are times when the fight is easy. It doesn’t even seem like one. The temptations are distant and easily overcome. There are other times when it is not so easy, when the fight is in the gutter, hand-to-hand and the outcome is unclear. Even if we win every time, we still feel dirty for having to fight that fight.

Yeah…

When I look at the difference in the temptations there are generally two components: my walk with God and my wife’s treatment of me. There should only be one: my walk with God, but I am human and affected by how she treats me.

I suppose the reason why some men are drawn to porn is loneliness. Looking for something new, something exciting, oh-so-hot women… perhaps it’s a factor sometimes, who knows, but I suppose most of it is loneliness. At least if we’re talking about normal guys who develop a problem.

The real gist of my post is how much I am influenced by my wife. When she honors and respects me, covets my touch (in all ways, not just “that touch”), when she flirts with me and lets me know that I am still desirable as a man in spite of the slight paunch and receding hair, when she treats me as the man of the house and makes me feel wanted, my fight is so easy. I laugh at temptation; I mock it and skip past it carefree and whistling a happy tune.

I’d say if one’s single, it’s easier to fight off such temptations when one’s reconciled to his fate and hasn’t had any lonely moments for some time. It’s less easy at moments when one has been feeling lonely and unwanted. Or rejected. Porn doesn’t reject people (apart from the fact it in itself is rejection of the same kind as masturbation - i.e. closing in oneself and rejecting others, a self-centred pleasure).

 

[chevalier]

The person who might open it occasionally, isn’t the same as the man who ignores and mistreats his wife, to retreat into his porn/fantasy world in which he is addicted to.

Yes. Although if porn becomes looking normal to people, that’s scary…

But–what would make a man look in the first place? It could be because he is not satisfied at home–it could also mean that he doesn’t see anything wrong with a peek now and again.

There are more such things than just porn. For some people, it’s flirting. For others, it’s porn. Yet others will engage in light-weight sexual/romantic gesture with other people.

So, for many men–a wife’s interaction with them, really doesn’t have a whole lot to do with it. It’s a slippery slope, to be sure.

It’s sad how people think it’s a part of a healthy life or the wife or husband isn’t hurt by it, or similar. Generally, I do tend to think supervision and making problems of friendships is way out of line, but sometimes people develop “interesting” freedom margins of what’s okay to do.