Pornography Addiction and Annulment

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Read John 8:1-11
  • counseling would help
Your brother in Christ,
Zachary
Go and sin no more.
Isn’t that what society says to drug addicts?

Questions…

Sex is addictive. Well, for many it is.
Would you want to annul a marriage to a sex addict? (assuming porn isn’t a factor)
Porn is addictive, according to what we read here.
So, can’t it be cured?

If so, why should a porn addict be punished for life by having his/her marriage annulled?
Why is it that someone on drugs will recieve sympathy/support/help/treatment for their addiction, but once sex is involved it is out the door?
 
*Women attaining voting rights, equal pay for equal work, becoming educated, etc…are very good things, for example. Porn is a manifestation of the degradation of morals in our world, by both men and women. I don’t think that back in the 1800’s, when women were treated badly by their husbands, and not permitted to vote, etc…that they were thinking of sexual exploitation as part and parcel of women’s rights. I do see what you’re saying…but, I think that ‘‘greater freedoms’’ doesn’t cross over into porn. When I think of my daughter’s rights, I don’t think of her being sexualized…that is not a right or a freedom. It’s an abuse of her feminity. The women who are often times in porn, were sexually abused as children…by men. They think they are worthless, and only ‘‘made’’ to please men in sexual ways…I think that when we look at it in that way, we can see it doesn’t ‘free’ anyone. Men or women. It is a tool of the devil to enslave men and women in sin.
*
OK, just how many women were treated badly by their husbands back in the 1800’s? Back then the general tendency was for men to place women on a pedestal. Anyway, that’s just an aside…

The real issue you seem to have missed.
Germaine Greer wrote in her book, The Female Eunuch, that sexual freedom was the key to real freedom for women. That’s the role model women looked to when the women’s lib issue climbed out of the bag. Go and visit night clubs anywhere in the western world and you will see Germaine’s philosophy being practiced to the full, with great enthusiasm. Way back in the 1970’s women demanded that they be able to do this. It was a philosophy, a call to action by a woman. Then women went out and put it into practice. They went out and did it. Today it is considered normal. And like all ‘norms’ it has been stretched and stretched to now include porn. Soft porn, hard porn, whatever, but the victim is femaleness and femininity.

OK, so you don’t want to go into nightclubs and have a look. Well, just take notice of all the billboards you see as you drive along. How many products are advertised with the picture of a bikini clad girl in the ad? Hundreds. All over the place. If they aren’t in a bikini, it’s usually something pretty scant. Or if it’s not scant clothing its suggestive. Next you go to your doctors and have a chance to flick through his/her collection of old magazines, take notice of how many ads have women in them, using their sexuality to sell something. Go into a magazine store and take notice of just how many magazines use women to advertise. It’s on TV. It’s in the cinema. It is everywhere. Your kids are seeing it. Google sexualisation of young girls. Others are worrying about it.

However, your response is philosophical and reeks of duck shoving. Why do I bluntly say that? You say it’s sinful. Well, we all know that. That’s why we are here discussing the issue. But also because you respond by saying the women who are often times in porn, were sexually abused as children…by men. You generalised and then you put the blame back on …men. Doing that is not accepting responsibility for the problem in any way shape or form. Blaming men is not regaining control over your own sexuality, your own feminity. It is simply…blaming.

My regret is that way back in the 1970’s men never had the gumption to stand up and say “No”. But that would have been seen as typical male controlling behaviour, wouldn’t it? I dare say if husbands and brothers and sons in this modern era tried to control this over-sexualisation of women they’d be seen as recidivist males too!?
So, perhaps it’s only women who can now put the cat back in the bag and reclaim some of the dignity of woman that has been and is being trashed.?
 
Go and sin no more.
Isn’t that what society says to drug addicts?

Questions…

Sex is addictive. Well, for many it is.
Would you want to annul a marriage to a sex addict? (assuming porn isn’t a factor)
Porn is addictive, according to what we read here.
So, can’t it be cured?

If so, why should a porn addict be punished for life by having his/her marriage annulled?
Why is it that someone on drugs will recieve sympathy/support/help/treatment for their addiction, but once sex is involved it is out the door?
If you can not understand why discovering that your husband has been deceiving you, lying to you, and disrespecting you by hiding a chemical addiction to infidelity might make a wife question the sacramentality of her marriage then I propose that you do not understand the sacred meaning God has assigned to the marital act. I honestly believed that my husband desired only me and that he wanted to, was capable of being, and indeed has been faithful to me from the beginning of our courtship. He professed to share the Church’s views on sexuality yet he hid a fetish for online pornography and self-satisfaction from me for 10 years. His mind is now full of many evil images. He can not appreciate me for the gift of self I can give him because it does seem as exciting as the images seared into his brain. Marital relations with me have been and may always be sort of boring in comparison to his fantasy life. I was not able to give free consent to this situation as it was kept hidden prior to marriage and not fully revealed until we had 5 children binding us together. Now I feel forced to stay in a situation I should have been free to choose. I am sorry but this just does not mesh with my understanding of the sacramentalilty of marriage and the sacredness of the marital act. I am not trying to punish my husband or any other men with this addiction but I wish they would not marry until they are free from it. It is not fair to drag a woman into this situation.
 
If you can not understand why discovering that your husband has been deceiving you, lying to you, and disrespecting you by hiding a chemical addiction to infidelity might make a wife question the sacramentality of her marriage then I propose that you do not understand the sacred meaning God has assigned to the marital act. I honestly believed that my husband desired only me and that he wanted to, was capable of being, and indeed has been faithful to me from the beginning of our courtship. He professed to share the Church’s views on sexuality yet he hid a fetish for online pornography and self-satisfaction from me for 10 years. His mind is now full of many evil images. He can not appreciate me for the gift of self I can give him because it does seem as exciting as the images seared into his brain. Marital relations with me have been and may always be sort of boring in comparison to his fantasy life. I was not able to give free consent to this situation as it was kept hidden prior to marriage and not fully revealed until we had 5 children binding us together. Now I feel forced to stay in a situation I should have been free to choose. I am sorry but this just does not mesh with my understanding of the sacramentalilty of marriage and the sacredness of the marital act. I am not trying to punish my husband or any other men with this addiction but I wish they would not marry until they are free from it. It is not fair to drag a woman into this situation.
Look, I get it. I really do and I understand your pain better than you might realise. I’m just wondering if it can be cured, is all, like any other addiction. Those mental images, surely, should go away in time. You are real, but surely, those images, viewed wherever they are viewed, are fantasy? In the sentence I underlined you said it yourself. You also said “may always be sort of boring”, but then again, they may not, because you are real. So, eventually, if he can find the self discipline required, be cured of this affliction, he and you both may find that special reality we all crave. I pray and hope it works out for you and that’s about the best I can offer, because, in my real world, I cannot understand how anyone can be addicted to what is essentially, demeaning behaviour for both men and women.
May God go with you.
 
OK, just how many women were treated badly by their husbands back in the 1800’s? Back then the general tendency was for men to place women on a pedestal. Anyway, that’s just an aside…

The real issue you seem to have missed.
Germaine Greer wrote in her book, The Female Eunuch, that sexual freedom was the key to real freedom for women. That’s the role model women looked to when the women’s lib issue climbed out of the bag. Go and visit night clubs anywhere in the western world and you will see Germaine’s philosophy being practiced to the full, with great enthusiasm. Way back in the 1970’s women demanded that they be able to do this. It was a philosophy, a call to action by a woman. Then women went out and put it into practice. They went out and did it. Today it is considered normal. And like all ‘norms’ it has been stretched and stretched to now include porn. Soft porn, hard porn, whatever, but the victim is femaleness and femininity.

OK, so you don’t want to go into nightclubs and have a look. Well, just take notice of all the billboards you see as you drive along. How many products are advertised with the picture of a bikini clad girl in the ad? Hundreds. All over the place. If they aren’t in a bikini, it’s usually something pretty scant. Or if it’s not scant clothing its suggestive. Next you go to your doctors and have a chance to flick through his/her collection of old magazines, take notice of how many ads have women in them, using their sexuality to sell something. Go into a magazine store and take notice of just how many magazines use women to advertise. It’s on TV. It’s in the cinema. It is everywhere. Your kids are seeing it. Google sexualisation of young girls. Others are worrying about it.

However, your response is philosophical and reeks of duck shoving. Why do I bluntly say that? You say it’s sinful. Well, we all know that. That’s why we are here discussing the issue. But also because you respond by saying the women who are often times in porn, were sexually abused as children…by men. You generalised and then you put the blame back on …men. Doing that is not accepting responsibility for the problem in any way shape or form. Blaming men is not regaining control over your own sexuality, your own feminity. It is simply…blaming.

My regret is that way back in the 1970’s men never had the gumption to stand up and say “No”. But that would have been seen as typical male controlling behaviour, wouldn’t it? I dare say if husbands and brothers and sons in this modern era tried to control this over-sexualisation of women they’d be seen as recidivist males too!?
So, perhaps it’s only women who can now put the cat back in the bag and reclaim some of the dignity of woman that has been and is being trashed.?
Please don’t condescend me. I have said nothing that you claim I have. I have posted about porn use on this forum before, and don’t blame everything on men. Porn isn’t only something men grapple with viewing, either. If you reread my post that you are quoting, I am saying this is a tool of the devil to cause both men and women to stumble. I don’t know why you are responding to something I never claimed or posted. :confused:

Please be more charitable to me in the future. Thank you.*
 
Please don’t condescend me. I have said nothing that you claim I have. I have posted about porn use on this forum before, and don’t blame everything on men. Porn isn’t only something men grapple with viewing, either. If you reread my post that you are quoting, I am saying this is a tool of the devil to cause both men and women to stumble. I don’t know why you are responding to something I never claimed or posted. :confused:

Please be more charitable to me in the future. Thank you.*
Well, I wasn’t trying to be condescending. I posted at #45, you responded at post #46, more at post #62 and the points I was making just flowed from those posts.
 
*Yes, but I never said what you’re saying I said…about blaming men, etc.So, that’s why I was confused. *
 
*Yes, but I never said what you’re saying I said…about blaming men, etc.So, that’s why I was confused. *
I’m sorry again if I confused you. I really am. It was just that what seems to me to be a very common retort is that the women who get into porn are victims of sexual abuse and there the story seems to end. That was part of your response, you see!
In post #46 you wrote this - I do see what you’re saying…but, I think that ‘‘greater freedoms’’ doesn’t cross over into porn. When I think of my daughter’s rights, I don’t think of her being sexualized…that is not a right or a freedom. It’s an abuse of her feminity. The women who are often times in porn, were sexually abused as children…by men.

I don’t mean this in any snide way, ok, but it makes me think “oh, all those girls out there being trashed and its because they were victims of men”. It actually rankles me quite a bit. I think the sexualisation of women, which was the main thrust of my argument, has gone so far that many young women now think its ok to get involved and I’m not sure that the victims of abuse argument is as strong as it once was. So, in other words, I was disagreeing with what you wrote about greater freedoms crossing over into porrn. In one of my earlier posts ( #45) I also mentioned how Germaine Greer actually wrote that the real freedom for women would come through sexual freedom. Thus, a woman gave a great big push to the sexual revolution and thousands of young women stepped out onto the slippery slope. . So, do you understand my argument now?

The next main thrust of my argument is that I’d like to see women make a stand against what is being done to women. Oh, I know that might be pie in the sky stuff, but I think the impact would be far greater if, say, all the mothers united against what is an obvious evil.

Look, I have read a lot of what you have written elsewhere and I have admired your thinking. I meant no offense, nor condesension and it seems we must be careful about how we choose our words in these emotionless forums.
 
I’m sorry again if I confused you. I really am. It was just that what seems to me to be a very common retort is that the women who get into porn are victims of sexual abuse and there the story seems to end. That was part of your response, you see!
In post #46 you wrote this - I do see what you’re saying…but, I think that ‘‘greater freedoms’’ doesn’t cross over into porn. When I think of my daughter’s rights, I don’t think of her being sexualized…that is not a right or a freedom. It’s an abuse of her feminity. The women who are often times in porn, were sexually abused as children…by men.

I don’t mean this in any snide way, ok, but it makes me think “oh, all those girls out there being trashed and its because they were victims of men”. It actually rankles me quite a bit. I think the sexualisation of women, which was the main thrust of my argument, has gone so far that many young women now think its ok to get involved and I’m not sure that the victims of abuse argument is as strong as it once was. So, in other words, I was disagreeing with what you wrote about greater freedoms crossing over into porrn. In one of my earlier posts ( #45) I also mentioned how Germaine Greer actually wrote that the real freedom for women would come through sexual freedom. Thus, a woman gave a great big push to the sexual revolution and thousands of young women stepped out onto the slippery slope. . So, do you understand my argument now?

The next main thrust of my argument is that I’d like to see women make a stand against what is being done to women. Oh, I know that might be pie in the sky stuff, but I think the impact would be far greater if, say, all the mothers united against what is an obvious evil.

Look, I have read a lot of what you have written elsewhere and I have admired your thinking. I meant no offense, nor condesension and it seems we must be careful about how we choose our words in these emotionless forums.
*I know, I like your writing as well…and was like…why is he addressing me like this? 😊 lol Okay, thank you for saying this. Message boards can cause those kinds of mishaps at times. Glad the air has been cleared…whew. 🙂

I hear you about your thoughts on porn and sexual freedoms…I think that the various layers behind why we are where we are, as it relates to sexual morals in this country, are complex. I think that many women choose professions that degrade them, because they never had someone in their lives tell them they were anything but the sum total of their body parts. (could be abused, neglected, and a whole host of other things too, but definitely there is a lack of self worth there for sure)

Jesus loves each of us, equally…with a love like nothing else. I think if we can reach more and more women AND men with that message, we will see porn, and the sexual degradation of everyone (men are degraded also by viewing porn) diminish. *
 
*I know, I like your writing as well…and was like…why is he addressing me like this? 😊 lol Okay, thank you for saying this. Message boards can cause those kinds of mishaps at times. Glad the air has been cleared…whew. 🙂

I hear you about your thoughts on porn and sexual freedoms…I think that the various layers behind why we are where we are, as it relates to sexual morals in this country, are complex. I think that many women choose professions that degrade them, because they never had someone in their lives tell them they were anything but the sum total of their body parts. (could be abused, neglected, and a whole host of other things too, but definitely there is a lack of self worth there for sure) *

Jesus loves each of us, equally…with a love like nothing else. I think if we can reach more and more women AND men with that message, we will see porn, and the sexual degradation of everyone (men are degraded also by viewing porn) diminish.
Excellent post. I too am glad the air is clearer now. Well, I am breathing a lot easier!! 👍

You broadened out the meaning of “abused” to mean “lack of self worth”. That’s good thinking. I still worry though, that many young girls are made to be too body conscious from too young an age because of the use of the female body in advertising and the media in general. They seem to grow up with a “if you got it, flaunt it” mentality. Porn and illicit sex are the ultimate in “flaunting” it. And all that is perhaps a sign of the lack of self worth you wrote of.

It is degrading to both men and women. No argument from me on that one. Unfortunately, men, being the visual creatures they are, are too easily sucked in to the problem. If women become the fly paper because of a lack of self worth, then what hope have any of us got? I really feel that women need to regain control of the whole problem and sort of reverse engineer Germaine Greer’s ideas.

And another thing, It is not just an American problem. Here in Australia it is just as bad. Having young daughters, it frightens the hell out of me (am I aloud to say that? :confused: )
 
I have been reading along in this thread hoping that I could find some advise for myself, but it seems that I stumbled in during an argument of sorts. I have been to Confession many times over this very issue, and I seem to fall back into the same old trap time & time again. I don’t masterbate, but I do dwell on to pornography sites when my wife isn’t around. I feel bad as soon as I have been to a couple different sites, I get very mad at myself, and I question God why I keep doing this awful thing. I pray about it, talk about it in confession, but after a while, I go back to viewing this garbage. even though I’m not actually acting out anything while I visit these sites, it still makes me feel dirty & sorrowful, and I feel like Iv’e cheated on my wife by looking at these other women. is there any advise that anyone here can offer me besides the obvious ones of Confession and prayer? I hope that no one here judges me to harshly, and that people realize that I have a problem, and I want it to stop.
 
Saint wannabe,
I do not have any great advice other than to tell your wife. Her reaction will probably motivate you to stop more than anything else. Also you will need a support group of men to help you. There is an online group here and many secular SA groups. Also I recommend the book Clean of Heart followed by Be a Man! by Father Larry Richards. These two sources are changing my husband and giving me hope.
 
I have been reading along in this thread hoping that I could find some advise for myself, but it seems that I stumbled in during an argument of sorts. I have been to Confession many times over this very issue, and I seem to fall back into the same old trap time & time again. I don’t masterbate, but I do dwell on to pornography sites when my wife isn’t around. I feel bad as soon as I have been to a couple different sites, I get very mad at myself, and I question God why I keep doing this awful thing. I pray about it, talk about it in confession, but after a while, I go back to viewing this garbage. even though I’m not actually acting out anything while I visit these sites, it still makes me feel dirty & sorrowful, and I feel like Iv’e cheated on my wife by looking at these other women. is there any advise that anyone here can offer me besides the obvious ones of Confession and prayer? I hope that no one here judges me to harshly, and that people realize that I have a problem, and I want it to stop.
Pray the rosary daily… that will help you ALOT ( I know it has helped me)
Go to confession frequently
Recieve the Holy Eucharist frequently
(even if you don’t feel like doing them)

As far as other things…
well spend less time on the computer for starters…if need be set up your parental controls when you actually go on the computer… & spend less time when you’re actually on the computer (i.e. if need to use to computer for work, pray before hand then have it set in your mind your goal to do your work… then as soon as you’re finished GET OFF)
When you get the urge, go for a brisk jog… that’ll tire you out( & take away the urge) 😉
Go out with a friend
Do something else as opposed to going on the computer…i.e. Read your bible, read other books, write something, do some work around the house… ( I don’t know what your interests are so you can probably fill that in…)

(Note: those ordinary things above are NOT substitutes for prayer & recieving the sacraments but they are helpful in addition to praying & recieving the sacraments)

As far as your comment about being judged harshly, no one is judging you here but you do realize that you have a problem… a big one at that (which will require a big solution…i.e. lots of prayer, sacrifice & self discipline…constantly even when you “feel alright”) so if any comments seem harsh the odds are you are not being judged but rather are being pushed (like a gym coach would push you to do more in your workouts in order to produce more results) to see that what you’re doing is affecting you & your family & that it will require alot of hard work

But don’t despair, you have the support of your brothers & sisters in Christ on this forum ( & of your family) who will be praying for you & all the men who struggle with this horrible sin. & best yet Christ is always there to help you 🙂 (Ask and you shall recieve). And don’t forget… it IS possible (contrary to what the world says) to be free from this problem

Your brother in Christ,
Zachary
 
Saint wannabe,
I do not have any great advice other than to tell your wife. Her reaction will probably motivate you to stop more than anything else. Also you will need a support group of men to help you. There is an online group here and many secular SA groups. Also I recommend the book Clean of Heart followed by Be a Man! by Father Larry Richards. These two sources are changing my husband and giving me hope.
Yeah thats probably better advice than what I said…🙂
 
While I truly sympathize with your hurt,I honestly feel that you must look into your own heart,Why can’t you forgive? Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.If God can forgive why can’t you? Your husband appears to be seriously trying to amend his life but instead of support you appear to be sabotaging his recovery by your obvious disgust.You have a right to be hurt but for his sake and YOURS,Let it go!My prayers are with you.
 
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