Portland parish protests new priest’s policies

[mrsdizzyd]

If I lived in Portland I would go there myself, attend a Mass and quietly pray. All the Catholics in the area should do so.

Same. As it is, I am praying for the parish and father from afar.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yes, me too.

 

[PetraG]

If I lived in Portland I would go there myself, attend a Mass and quietly pray. All the Catholics in the area should do so.

It is fine if some people want to do that, but probably Father will have the least headache if the situation is allowed to calm down all by itself. Lots of prayers are welcome…but maybe at everyone’s home parish. The parishioners had their moment in the spotlight of the Oregonian, and there was a countering letter to the editor published to generate some more clicks on the web site, but that newspaper doesn’t usually spend a lot of ink on our Catholic turmoils (or religious matters generally).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I am sure that if the K of C are descending on his church en masse, someone called him and inquired about it and he said it was OK. The K of C usually do not just show up at a church in droves without some prior arrangement with the pastor.

As for ordinary Catholics coming to Mass, I have never yet seen a priest who would want to turn people away if they were there to pray and not create any disturbance.

 

[PetraG]

I am sure that if the K of C are descending on his church en masse, someone called him and inquired about it and he said it was OK. The K of C usually do not just show up at a church in droves without some prior arrangement with the pastor.

As for ordinary Catholics coming to Mass, I have never yet seen a priest who would want to turn people away if they were there to pray and not create any disturbance.

At this point, it is a rumor, and that’s all.

 

[otjm]

I don’t think I said anything about the Knights “starting a rumble.” In fact, I chose my words very carefully; if you look at my post, I said “so much as touch one of the parishioners”.

In the Mass reported in the Oregonian, the parishioners decided to start a demonstration apparently during the Consecration.

I certainly would hope that nothing comes of this. However, were they to have asked my opinion (and while I am retired and not practicing, I have practiced law) I would have advised them to forego showing up at a Mass in a group. A number of comments have expressed horror at the reported activity of the parishioners at that Mass.

If it happens again (and given the hot-headedness exhibited by parishioners in that Mass) and the vituperation in their comments subsequently as noted in the Oregonian, this is a parish with a lot of people playing the “Us against Them” card, “them” being the Archdiocese, the priest, and by analogy anyone representing faithfulness to the Magisterium. and the Knights (and I don’t presume them in full regalia) showing up for Mass plays right into the parishioners narrative of “Us against Them”.

And what happens if the parishioners get up again during the Mass and start to chant? In a perfect world the Knights step aside and give them room for their demonstration.

I don’t live in a perfect world - maybe Tis-Bear does - but I have seen enough of human nature - and men particularly, to know that trips a trigger to protect. And all it takes is for one Knight to step in front of an activist, to reach out and touch - not rumble; just touch - and the match has hit the tinder.

Will it happen? God willing, the Knights will go to Mass in their own parish; and if they choose St. Francis, they will exhibit the discipline of trained troops.

I have altogether too much experience with people, well meaning, well-intentioned people, who in the moment think they are doing the innocent right thing.

And it wasn’t.

The best think that can happen, IMHO, is for everyone to stay away from this kettle and let it simmer down; and if it doesn’t simmer down, let the Archbishop handle it. Preferably by shuttering it. We are short enough of priests, and their parishes enough who would be happy to have this priest as theirs.

It is past time to tell the loonies "This is the Church, this is the way we say Mass; we invited you to metanoia. And if this does not suit you, we invited you to reconsider, particularly if, like the report indicates have already parted company; to come back to the universal Church, not the parish made in your own images. We invite you back to a parish where the priest says the black and does the red. And if that does not suit your fancy, we will respect your decision to leave.

 

[Diaconia]

And the swords are very dull, to boot.

The Knights and all of us should pray for everyone involved in this difficult issue: parishioners, priest, food ministry volunteers and bishop.

Deacon Christopher

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And the swords are very dull, to boot.

That’s a relief. I was sort of hoping that was the case, given the advanced age of some of the fellows I see wielding them.

 

[Peeps]

I don’t really think any of the Knights in Oregon are going to start a rumble at St. Francis Church.

It wouldn’t have to be a rumble. If someone approaches a knight, gets up in his face (without touching him) and starts haranguing him, and the knight reaches out a hand to fend the aggressive person off and touches him/her in any way–that could be grounds for a charge of assault. All the “victim” has to say is that he/she felt threatened and afraid for his/her safety.

I know that a lot of Catholics would love to think of the knights as defenders of the faith, bu I think it would be very, very wise for them to leave the ceremonial swords at home if they do decide to make a show of strength and tradition at this beleaguered parish. I fear that some of the knights might, in their love and zeal for Holy Mother Church and Our Lord Jesus Christ, slip over into “Avenger” mode and end up getting himself in trouble with the law, and I don’t think this would help the cause of the Church.

Frankly, I think the best strategy would be for the priest and the faithful who have remained loyal to Holy Mother Church’s orthodox teachings to meet in another part of the building or perhaps another building on the campus (is there a parish school and does it have its own chapel?) and hold a quiet Mass there.

I know this can be done with the permission of the bishop. It would be good to do this without announcement (just word of mouth to those who are known to be faithful and true to the Church and supportive of the new priest) and at an earlier time than the Mass that is usually attended by the dissidents. And then after the reverent Mass, those who can should stay and pray for an extended time for their brothers and sisters who are persisting in theological error.

 

[BartholomewB]

We shall soon know. Sunday morning Mass at St. Francis of Assisi begins at 9:30 PDT (12:30 EDT). The local television stations are probably, at this moment, wondering whether one camera crew will be enough.

 

[PetraG]

We shall soon know. Sunday morning Mass at St. Francis of Assisi begins at 9:30 PDT (12:30 EDT). The local television stations are probably, at this moment, wondering whether one camera crew will be enough.

I seriously doubt that. It isn’t as if a camera crew can force itself into a Catholic church over the wishes of the pastor. He can easily say that Mass will not start until the cameras are gone and the cell phones are turned off and stowed away.

I also don’t think the Knights of Columbus are going to show up in full regalia. C’mon. There are going to be more people than usual…maybe. More people that the parishioners do not know. Well, there was probably already that just because they have a new pastor who’s very different from previous priests. It would be a change in the number of visitors, not a change in kind.

As for the parishioners, one would hope that if they do believe there will be a lot of guests they will take measure to ensure there is a welcoming atmosphere. If not, they have certainly lost what St. Francis has always had going for it, whether they were following the rubrics as they ought to have done or not. If something causes a parish started by Franciscans to become rude and unwelcoming or inflated or at all resistant to offering peace and open hospitality, it really has become unmoored from its roots. I really hope no one there thinks otherwise, and excepting for a few who are all excited or caught up in their anger, that is what I’d expect.

We need to be very careful that our conversation here encourages nothing but an edifying and peaceful Mass celebrated by a group that represents the entire breadth and depth and length of our Catholic spectrum.

Is that, after all, not what would please Our Lord the most? That is what we ought to pray for: that He be praised and given glory in the holy Mass offered at every church on every Sunday everywhere, by Catholics who are noteworthy only for their unfailing mutual charity and for exemplifying all the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

I like the way you imply that the K of C are the troublemakers! If anyone is likely to be disruptive, I wonder who it would be…Hmmm…

 

[tseleehw]

We shall soon know. Sunday morning Mass at St. Francis of Assisi begins at 9:30 PDT (12:30 EDT). The local television stations are probably, at this moment, wondering whether one camera crew will be enough.

My prediction on the inevitable clash between the KoC and St. Francis parishioners (with special guest appearance by the parish council president at 2:12):

 

[otjm]

I did no such thing. I do not presume they are troublemakers; I presume the progressives are troublemakers and are best avoided.

Go read again what I said.

I did not say that any Knight would assault anyone. I said that any contact, no matter how innocent, in the middle of another progressive show during Mass could and likely would be regarded as an assault.

That clear enough for you?

 

[otjm]

I seriously doubt that. It isn’t as if a camera crew can force itself into a Catholic church over the wishes of the pastor. He can easily say that Mass will not start until the cameras are gone and the cell phones are turned off and stowed away.

I said nothing of them entering the Church; simply showing up outside and sticking a microphone in someone’s face will get the job done.

I also don’t think the Knights of Columbus are going to show up in full regalia. C’mon. There are going to be more people than usual…maybe. More people that the parishioners do not know. Well, there was probably already that just because they have a new pastor who’s very different from previous priests. It would be a change in the number of visitors, not a change in kind.

Most of your comments have indicated you have some knowledge of this parish. I did not say anything about them showing up in full regalia; I presume there to be no reason they would. Neither are the parishioners blind dumb and stupid; even if word does not circulate enough to get to them (and it is circulating) they have a chip on their shoulder (or something larger). They are already antagonistic to the authority residing across the river; and you think they will not be antagonized by, and antagonistic to the Knights?

I absolutely do not want to see trouble, and I, if asked, would counsel against anything which could further the parishioners “Us against Them” mentality, already more than amply shown by their disruption of Mass. Given their antagonism to the priest, the rubrics, and whatever else causes them to get their knickers in a knot, I see no reason to give them another opportunity to get exercised about anyone who supports the priest, the rubrics, the Archbishop and anyone else you care to add to that list.

I am sure you are aware of what Antifa has been doing downtown. They are anarchists; and I would advise anyone and everyone to avoid them when they want to have a demonstration. I consider the parishioners to be a parallel in their rebellion to the norm to be similar to the rebellion of Antifa to the norm (and no, I am not considering Proud Boys to be the norm). In both instances I think common sense says stay away. You certainly are welcome to differ, and I pray there won’t be grounds to say “I made the suggestion”.

If something causes a parish started by Franciscans to become rude and unwelcoming or inflated or at all resistant to offering peace and open hospitality, it really has become unmoored from its roots.

Well, it has wandered far enough from its roots that there has been a long and ongoing rebellion with the GIRM. And I will lave it at that.

 

[PetraG]

Most of your comments have indicated you have some knowledge of this parish.

As I wrote earlier, the parish is one of the ones in the Metro area that is a nucleus for outreach to the homeless. Many people from outside the parish have volunteered there to help out at St. Francis Dining Hall, which Catholic Charities is going to step in to help to administer.

They are already antagonistic to the authority residing across the river…

They unfortunately seem to be antagonistic to the authority living in the parish rectory (and the Archbishop’s office is actually on the same side of the river as St. Francis.)

Yes, it is a Question Authority part of the country, even within some parishes. I hope they regret the choice to disrupt Mass and that there is no repeat nor any show of inhospitality.

 

[otjm]

Ah - you can tell how many times I have been to the Chancery, I have the habit of identifying it with the Cathedral. My bad.

What has happened to the school building? I lot track years ago as to what the plans were for it.

Catholic Charities May work out of the basement of the church or if the school is available, out of there. Hopefully it will address the complaints of the neighborhood businesses.

 

[PetraG]

Catholic Charities May work out of the basement of the church or if the school is available, out of there. Hopefully it will address the complaints of the neighborhood businesses.

I think it is high time that the nation figure out how to handle the problem of drug addicts, the mentally ill and the destitute who have no place to live and not even any place to relieve themselves in a sanitary manner. If there were somewhere for people to go, the courts would let the police enforce anti-camping laws, but as it stands it would be tantamount to making it illegal to exist while poor.

In the meantime, however, the Archdiocese of Portland, Catholic Charities and Providence Health have a project started that aims to reduce chronic homelessness in Portland by 20% in 5 years. Part of the plan is to convert unused parish properties to use for transitional housing. I don’t know how they’re overseeing it (because it doesn’t work to just give an addict a dry private place to use, obviously), but more is needed than seeing to the food need.

Portland is one of 5 US cities chosen for this kind of project:

https://www.catholicsentinel.org/MobileContent/News/Local/Article/Portland-a-site-of-new-anti-homelessness-initiative/2/35/37388

 

[TheLittleLady]

Pretty sure the swords went the way of the funny hats with plumes

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Some places around here are still using the old plumed and caped outfit. Last weekend is actually the first time I’ve seen K of C at a Mass all in the new uniform.