Positive aspects and spiritual benefits of...a whole list of things

[Armor_of_Light]

I’m going to start with some assumptions here. I believe they are 100% accurate, but if not…it is a good chance for me to learn something. Here goes:

1. The Church does not teach or promote error.
2. Everything the Church allows is for our benefit.
3. Every part of the Mass is structured for a reason.
4. Everything in Catholicism makes sense according to the goal (Get to Heaven).

So…

There have been a few threads recently (and perpetually it seems) involving all the standard issues i/e:

CITH
Altar girls
Orans posture
Guitars / Music
Etc…

All allowed. Not the issue here. Please.

What I have not seen however, is a thread that allows those in the know (not me) to teach us all about the BENEFITS of these things that the Church allows. What are the benefits?

If the Magisterium comes out and says “Reeses Puffs are great, and all Catholics are now permitted to enjoy them”, then it stands to reason that there are benefits to Reeses Puffs that would be explained.

Thanks

 

[Melchior_1]

I like the idea of this thread a lot, actually. Good idea, and hopefully it remains civil!

First off, Reeses Puffs are AWESOME. Used to be ranked #2 on my cereal list with Cinnamon Toast Crunch being number one, but now it might be closer to a tie. I should get both tonight and settle that dispute.

Benefits of CITH:

• You’re holding Christ in the palm of your hand, that’s pretty deep philosophy wise. Other than that, meh.

Benefits of Altar Girls

• Girls can have a more active role in participating at Mass.
• Being closer to Christ could pique their interest in the consecrated life.

Orans Posture

• Lifting praise to God.
• It’s simply a posture for prayer and not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.

Guitars / Music

Out of all the ones listed , I’ll be honest in that this is one I actually will invest time into talking about.

No one denies that there is a cultural clause where music native to a culture can be used within the Liturgy, especially if it’s a missionary territory. The hang up seems to be revolving around what I call “euro-Catholicism”, where these instruments are not native to the country or culture.

Here in North America, people hold onto this euro-Catholicism. The catch is that at least in the USA, a war was fought to remove European influence. To this day the metric system isn’t even being used. With that in mind, I would posit that euro-Catholicism is something that may not strictly be applicable in North America, and that we have our own distinctive culture. Based on that, the cultural clause may be applicable and music that relates to the culture here could be used. With that, all the benefits you see (like in Africa) could be applied here, such as:

• People being engaged more through the music of their culture.
• Creation of a hybrid style, modern instruments putting a new spin on old classics (David Crowder did a whole album of this, a Requiem. Incredibly album).

 

[grasscutter]

I’ll address one benefit of the role of female altar servers. This one is personal and might not be applicable universally, but had female altar servers been allowed when I was young it would have definately provided me with the space and grace to listen to the call to consecrated life. I don’t know if I had a calling or not - I do know that if I did I ignored it.

 

[aspirant]

CITH

Though I usually receive on the tongue as a matter of personal preference, I make exceptions from time to time.

As a person with several allergies and chronic sinusitis, it is occasionally difficult to discern at the onset of symptoms whether they are caused by contagious disease or allergies. When I am uncertain, I opt to receive in the hand, because priests sometimes touch my tongue by accident and I would prefer to decrease the probability of transferring germs. (I also abstain from the cup on these occasions.)

Some priests, bless them, nearly always touch my tongue. When receiving from a priest who’s had this problem a number of times, I opt to receive in the hand. Even if I’m not sick, the transmission of germs from me to the priest (or vice versa) can be a concern.

Communion in the hand seems to have some benefits.

Altar Girls
Pope John Paul II:

Today I appeal to the whole Church community to be willing to foster feminine participation in every way in its internal life. This is certainly not a new commitment, since it is inspired by the example of Christ himself… In fact, there have been many women who have distinguished themselves in the Church’s history by their holiness and hardworking ingenuity. The Church is increasingly aware of the need for enhancing their role. Within the great variety of different and complementary gifts that enrich ecclesial life, many important possibilities are open to them. The 1987 Synod on the Laity expressed precisely this need and asked that, “without discrimination women should be participants in the life of the Church, and also in consultation and the process of coming to decisions,” (cf. Christifidelis Laici). This is the way to be courageously taken. To a large extent is a question of making full use of he ample room for a lay and feminine presence recognized by the Church’s law. I am thinking, for example, of… the forms of liturgical ministry permitted, including service at the altar… many pastoral activities, including new forms of participation in the care of parishes when there is a shortage of clergy, except for those tasks that belong properly to the priest.

The Pope contended that all dimensions of society (political, economic, artistic, ecclesial, etc.) benefits profoundly from the participation of women, who have a unique genius, and that all dimensions of society suffer when women are absent. This is a good thing.

It does not surprise me that some have expressed the belief that the presence of altar girls may help foster an interest in religious life among girls, which is also a very good thing.

Orans Posture

This is a Western revival of ancient Jewish and Christian gesture of supplication and receptivity (e.g. 2Chr 6:29-31, Neh 8:5-6, Lam 3:40-41, 1Tm 2:8, catacombs & other iconography). St. Clement of Rome, praising the past deeds of the Corinthians, commended the gesture: “Content with the provision which God had made for you, and carefully attending to His words, you were inwardly filled with His doctrine, and His sufferings were before your eyes. Thus a profound and abundant peace was given to you all, and you had an insatiable desire for doing good, while a full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was upon you all. Full of holy designs, and with true earnestness of mind and a godly confidence, you stretched forth your hands to God Almighty, beseeching Him to be merciful to you, if you had been guilty of any involuntary transgression.”

Clearly this gesture, commended scripture, sacred art, and the Fathers of the Church, is good.

As far as I am aware, praying with folded hands is also an ancient gesture of surrender (appearing, for example, in the Talmud). That is also a good thing.

Guitars / Music

It is sufficient for me that God thinks musical instruments are a good means of worship (cf. Psalm 150).

 

[otjm]

There have been a few threads recently (and perpetually it seems) involving all the standard issues i/e:

CITH
Altar girls
Orans posture
Guitars / Music
Etc…

All allowed. Not the issue here. Please.

What I have not seen however, is a thread that allows those in the know (not me) to teach us all about the BENEFITS of these things that the Church allows. What are the benefits?

If the Magisterium comes out and says “Reeses Puffs are great, and all Catholics are now permitted to enjoy them”, then it stands to reason that there are benefits to Reeses Puffs that would be explained.

Thanks

CITH: it existed to some extent into the 10th or 11th century when it was finally abrogated. However, according to Brother JR, if I read him correctly, it came back not long after in a minor way in that the Franciscans were allowed to receive in the hand (1200’s); so it is not like this has been the way of the Church, the time of man remembereth not. It was the way (and I don’t mean exclusively, as negatives are nigh impossible to prove) the early Church received. More later.

Orans posture: as noted, a very ancient prayer posture. Interestingly, other than what the good nuns taught (some would say beat into) us, I am not sure there was ever any rubrics for the posture of hands during Mass. and the issue of the orans posture being one only for the priest (that is, a priestly posture) belies the fact that hands, palms together and fingers pointing out or up is also a priestly posture. It is a conscious posture (orans) and being conscious of praying is a good thing, since some of us can go to automatic pilot all too easily.

Female altar servers - see below.

Guitars/music. Well, in all too many circumstances the organ seems to have been banned, and that is sad because some music seems more appropriately accompanied by an organ. Having said that, piano also seems more appropriate to other pieces; and some guitars. We have a tendency to think that is if something is done in the US, then it should be universal, as if we were the mark from which all is measured. Some of the issue may be that whoever is doing the music may or may not have much in the way of musical training; with someone who has that, instruments other than organ can be very musically appropriate; and without that training, some of it can be very unbalanced.

I love Gregorian chant, and there isn’t too much musically that grates harder on me than Gregorian chant poorly done. Maybe someone seeking horribly off key. I was part of a group that cut a record in Gregorian chant in the mid 1960’s, so I know what it is supposed to sound like. Precious few parish choirs can even begin to approach it

One of the issues about liturgical practice in the Church that was ongoing well before Vatican 2 was the fact that over centuries, the liturgy had become more and more formalized, ritualized, and complex. Part of the criticism was that the liturgy had become so focused on God Transcendent that we had lost the aspect of God Imminent. Research into the early Church indicated a much less stylized, much less rubrically complex approach to liturgy. Things such as the almost absolute stricture against touching the Eucharist (which included wafers so thin they would dissolve in the mouth; and the prohibition we were taught abut chewing)were viewed in juxtaposition to Christ’s command “Take and eat…” and the early Church practice. In short, it was perceived that rules had become(seemingly) so much a focus that they were overwhelming substance.

 

[otjm]

I was running out of room.

Girl altar servers: as we moved away from minor orders, and as Rome began to put more emphasis on women and their role in the Church, this came about.

There are some who hold fast that with boys being “crowded out”, that this has something to do with a lack of vocations.

I live in a suburban parish in Oregon, one of the most unchurched states of the 50. the Mass is the OF, ad populum, somewhere between 1200 and 1500 families; a church building in the half-round.

We have lots of female servers.

We also have Perpetual Adoration 24/7/363, and have had for something like 15+ years. One sister in an order that has a distinguishable habit, lives in community and works with the poor; 4 priests, 2 deacons, an active social ministry, and have built the first Catholic grade school in 40 years Guitars at one Mass; piano with or without other instruments at the others (4 Masses Saturday night to Sunday night), a large number of people who pray the Our Father in the orans position, a very active Knights of Columbus group, active RCIA and one priest.

We pretty much steer clear of the “happy clappy” but our music is from OCP; we have an active pro life group, and etc.

Oh, and I was an altar server while Pope Pius 12th was alive.

I raised daughters (both of whom were altar servers), no boys. But had I had boys, and they told me they were not going to serve with girls, I suspect that about one heart-beat later they might have had a serious and massive change of attitude, if not of heart. It is not a child’s place to tell a parent what the child will or will not do.

Period.

 

[floresco]

I’m going to start with some assumptions here. I believe they are 100% accurate, but if not…it is a good chance for me to learn something. Here goes:

1. The Church does not teach or promote error.
2. Everything the Church allows is for our benefit.
3. Every part of the Mass is structured for a reason.
4. Everything in Catholicism makes sense according to the goal (Get to Heaven).

So…

There have been a few threads recently (and perpetually it seems) involving all the standard issues i/e:

CITH
Altar girls
Orans posture
Guitars / Music
Etc…

All allowed. Not the issue here. Please.

What I have not seen however, is a thread that allows those in the know (not me) to teach us all about the BENEFITS of these things that the Church allows. What are the benefits?

If the Magisterium comes out and says “Reeses Puffs are great, and all Catholics are now permitted to enjoy them”, then it stands to reason that there are benefits to Reeses Puffs that would be explained.

Thanks

I disagree with your assumption #2.

You are equating allowing something with saying that it is great. There is no statement from the Church along the lines of “CITH is great” nor is there one for any of the examples above.

Sometimes things are allowed reluctantly, not because they are beneficial, but because the Church has to choose her battles. Here is an analogy. Right now my teenage son has long, unkempt hair and it looks horrible. I permit this because fixing the problem is not worth the tension that will be caused by fighting over it. I do not think that there are benefits to his hair looking like this.

It is true that the Church does not teach or promote error. It does not follow from this that everything the Church allows is for our benefit. Sometimes things are permitted because it is not worth fighting over it.