Positive Atheism?

[Suat]

If this doesn’t sound like an atheist to you, I guess there’s no way to reach you.

I looked up the quote. Apparently it comes from page 49 of Voice of Destruction by Hermann Rauschning. I had never read the book, so I took the time to skim it today. I also looked up the author and found some sources questioning the veracity of his book. Apparently in his 1938 book he states to have met Hitler 3-4 times, and never alone. Yet in Voice of Destruction he recounts his personal memories of dozens of these conversations. This is quite strange, because Hitler was undoubtedly an evil man. You would think that writing an accurate account of his few meetings with Hitler and meetings with other officials would still have made a good book.

So what do I conclude about the quote? Nothing. Second hand accounts from a source whose validity is questioned are not quite on the level of scholarship that I prefer.

And I have already said that I do not believe all atheists are inherently evil. So why do you persist in making me say the opposite?

Who is putting words in whose mouth? You said:
*Now that’s interesting, because most atheists say just the opposite about Christianity, that it is evil because so many Christians have been evil. *
I replied that yes, some do, and I think they are wrong about that.

Must have been impressed!

If I was impressed, would I not be a theist?

No, I read the Bible because I was tired of people telling me that if I only read it, I would start believing in God. So I read it a few times. Still lacked belief. So I read the Book of Mormon, the Qur’an, the Bhagavad Gītā, Upanishads and some of the Vedas, the Avesta, the Satanic Bible, the Samaritan Pentateuch and probably some others that I am forgetting at the moment. I still lack belief.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

Mirdath/Suat

Mirdath says Franklin was a Deist, and Franklin’s call for prayer and a clergyman cannot change that. Suat doubts the veracity of Hermann Raschning quoting Hitler.

So I guess no matter what sources are used to prove anything on the theist side, they will be doubtful to our resident atheists.

They acknowledge only what they want to acknowledge.

In that case, further discussion is useless.

Adios.

“If the world is so bad with religion, what would it be like without religion?” Benjamin Franklin

 

[Mirdath]

Mirdath says Franklin was a Deist, and Franklin’s call for prayer and a clergyman cannot change that. Suat doubts the veracity of Hermann Raschning quoting Hitler.

I did modify that, if you’d take the care to read my posts in their entirety. He did develop his own concept of God, but was never religious. Asking for a clergyman to be present does not equate to getting religion.

Suat’s right to doubt your source’s veracity. He’s put far more effort into debating your claims than they’re worth in spite of continuous opposition, wilful ignorance, and sheer hardheadedness from you, and by looking your sources up has found them wanting at best. It’s your turn to do a little bookwork and show Raschning’s worth believing now – but will you? No, you decide that Suat’s just wrong for disagreeing with you, completely ignoring that he backed his side up with all manner of things, up to and including actual page numbers. You’re running from him, because your claims can’t stand up to his just criticism.

So I guess no matter what sources are used to prove anything on the theist side, they will be doubtful to our resident atheists.

Use valid, scholarly sources, and maybe some manners and proper rhetoric, and perhaps you can. You won’t be able to prove the truth of atheism vs religion either way, but there are many other related topics which can be logically debated.

They acknowledge only what they want to acknowledge.

There’s only one person in this thread who’s failed to acknowledge less than the full text of it, and that would be you. It seems you completely ignore half of what either Suat or I post. Even the question with which you opened the thread – I directly answered it multiple times, yet you never acknowledged those answers, instead choosing to question me on my motives for posting on these boards and then moving on to bicker about Nietzsche and Hitler, among various other sidetracks.

In that case, further discussion is useless.

It would seem so, as long as you continue like this. I’m open to discussing the positive outlook that is possible with a non-theist point of view further – but I’m not sure there’s a whole lot more I can say that hasn’t already been completely ignored here.

Lesson of this thread: ask, and it shall be given to you – but you should at least look at what you’re getting.

 

[Jake_Ellison]

Jake

A huge number of the worlds problems have bases in religion.

They do indeed. And a much huger number of the world’s problems have their basis in lack of religion … as you will see by visiting any prison.

I don’t agree that it is a ‘much huger number.’

If you go to a prison you will not just find atheists. People of every faith commit crimes. A lack of religious belief does not cause you to commit crime. I have never committed a crime and I try to live the best life I can. I’m still an atheist.

Remember, atheistic criminals have not committed their crimes in the name of atheism. The worst religious atrocities have been commited in the name of God.

 

[R_McGeddon]

R McGeddon

You endlessly repeat: Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc. as driven by atheism.

They were. And that bears constant repetition because you atheists would like to forget it and demonize ad nauseam the Christians of the Crusades and the Inquisition who were small fry compared to atheists Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

So you think that they were driven by a disbelief in God, and nothing at all to do with their sociopathic megalomania???

I think you should consult a dictionary and see how many other misconceptions you have.

“If the world is so bad with religion, what would it be like without religion?” Benjamin Franklin

It could finish up being Utopian.

 

[Jake_Ellison]

R McGeddon

You endlessly repeat: Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc. as driven by atheism.

They were. And that bears constant repetition because you atheists would like to forget it and demonize ad nauseam the Christians of the Crusades and the Inquisition who were small fry compared to atheists Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

This too bears repetition as long as any atheist can stand to hear it:

“If the world is so bad with religion, what would it be like without religion?” Benjamin Franklin

Try getting used to it. You’re going to be seeing it more often.

Neither atheisim or religion causes evil. Hitler did not commit his crimes in the name of athism, he would have been just as evil had religion never existed (if we ignore the inffluence of the Catholic church on hitler in his youth).

Religion does not cause evil either. People interpretate religion badly and commit crimes in its name, but religion followed correctly is not evil.

Moral frameworks can be found anywhere in religion and also in people who believe in no God. If there was no religion we would still have morals because they came from people. We would still have evil as that also comes from people.

John Lenon wrote a song once asking us to imagine the world with no religion, with nothing to kill or die for. This seemed a pretty good concept. Pesimestically I believe that a lack of religion would not lead to utopia. I believe it would only solve problems caused by religious interpretations (which would still be considereable). We would still have had Hitler, but prehaps we would not have a phycopath attempting to bring total choas into the world so as to hasten the arrival of Jesus.

 

[Jake_Ellison]

So I guess no matter what sources are used to prove anything on the theist side, they will be doubtful to our resident atheists.

They acknowledge only what they want to acknowledge.

Religion is a lot more blind then athism. You have been taught something since your childhood, indoctrinated with information that does not ask for thought and reason just blind belief. You have not considered the athistic viewpoint. Christians do not think, ‘lets assume that God does not exist.’

I had religious belief and I lost it when I really started to think. I found that if I did not just depend on faith, there was nothing to back that faith up.

Christianity only acknowleadges what it wants to acknowleage. You look for evidence to back up points. Atheism uses evidence to form points.

 

[paco_sinner]

im by no means a catholic, but atheism seems almost foolish to me. i might be wrong but im pretty sure that atheism is the belief that God doesn’t exist. Their reasoning for it is that there is no evidence He should exist. Is it not true that there is no evidence against his existence? I know this is not enough reason to build a religion for Him, but doesn’t it make holding a strong belief against Him ridiculous if your reasoning is the opposite than the one I just proposed? Thanks,

-Paco

 

[Ahimsa]

im by no means a catholic, but atheism seems almost foolish to me. i might be wrong but im pretty sure that atheism is the belief that God doesn’t exist. Their reasoning for it is that there is no evidence He should exist. Is it not true that there is no evidence against his existence? I know this is not enough reason to build a religion for Him, but doesn’t it make holding a strong belief against Him ridiculous if your reasoning is the opposite than the one I just proposed? Thanks,

-Paco

You are correct, Mr. Paco.

 

[Mirdath]

im by no means a catholic, but atheism seems almost foolish to me. i might be wrong but im pretty sure that atheism is the belief that God doesn’t exist. Their reasoning for it is that there is no evidence He should exist. Is it not true that there is no evidence against his existence? I know this is not enough reason to build a religion for Him, but doesn’t it make holding a strong belief against Him ridiculous if your reasoning is the opposite than the one I just proposed? Thanks,

-Paco

There’s no empirical evidence either way, but to many people the lack of evidence is more telling than the possibility that God simply does not show himself. Strong atheism requires faith in its own way – faith in the non-existence of a deity. That’s one of the reasons I’m simply agnostic

 

[Jake_Ellison]

im by no means a catholic, but atheism seems almost foolish to me. i might be wrong but im pretty sure that atheism is the belief that God doesn’t exist. Their reasoning for it is that there is no evidence He should exist. Is it not true that there is no evidence against his existence? I know this is not enough reason to build a religion for Him, but doesn’t it make holding a strong belief against Him ridiculous if your reasoning is the opposite than the one I just proposed? Thanks,

-Paco

I don’t see why athesum is foolish. By your argument I could say a lack of belief in faries or aliens is equally foolish. There is ‘evidence’ for aliens and some poeple do believe in supernatural creatures like faries or ghosts or whatever. Why don’t you?

I personally think that athiesm is not foolish, and i am not an atheist just because there is no evidence for God. I also can’t see any difference between the type of faith required by all different religions. It seems to me that humans are just very good at believing in things that don’t exist.

 

[paco_sinner]

i see the reasons you’re not an atheist, but what are the reasons you are? what makes you have an actual faith in disbelieving in the existence of God?

 

[ms_alternative]

if the universe is 6000 years old and stars are 1 million light years away how can we see there light? it would take 1 million years for the light to reach us

why do fossils that are more primitive buried deeper and not mixed with more developed ones?

why douse the bible have contradictions if it came from god?

why douse 50% of the world suffer from starvation?

if god can heal people why douse he not heal an amputee?

why did god create people to send them to hell?

is it OK to say hell here i do not mean it as a bad word but a place?



Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha

 

[thealternative]

i see the reasons you’re not an atheist, but what are the reasons you are? what makes you have an actual faith in disbelieving in the existence of God?

there are contradictions in the bible.

the loving god burns most of his children in hell.

we need to kill god to be forgiven.

the trinity makes no sense.

50% of gods children are starving today on earth.

priest sexually abuse children.

there are statistics that show people with faith have the same sickness death rate and divorce.

the catholic crusades witch burnings

i do good things because i am good not to get anything from god.

i do not have to feel bad about the mistakes i have made in the past.

i do not need to give 10% of my money to the church if i want to give to someone i can choose who i want to help.

i do not need to fear hell.

i do not need to raise my children to be in fear of burning in hell.

i do not need to convince my children evolution the space program DNA the age of the earth and fossils are all lies.

i do not need to convince my children that the flood manna burning bushes crossing the read sea demons angles heaven hell and the man with horns and a pitchfork are truth.

i do not need to think god will find it easier to forgive man after killing his son.

i do not think we need to kill any animal especially so god will forgive us.