Hey, I’m not claiming the Anglicans are as “pure white” as you claim the Roman Catholic Church to be. It’d just be nice to see some honestly about the Roman Church’s history, and how it indeed has often contravened the very notion of Jesus’ ministry.
I love it how Protestants quote Jesus, then a Catholic comes along and says, “what YOU are saying is …”. No, it’s not what I said. It’s what Jesus said. Believe it.
Because the RCC’s amazing claims invite such criticism.
My whole point is simply this…If there is one thing that is found throughout Scripture, over and over, it is that even those singled out by God to fulfill His purposes have fallen short of blamelessness, some in major ways. We are all called to obedience, and even those of us with the highest callings have been subject to our own freewill and the temptations that come with it. The fact that they have faltered in whatever way, has not negated them as chosen by God, and has never negated the mission that God had given them. My remarks are in response to those would would imply that “blamelessness” be a litmus test for “true Christianity” or the “true Church”.
Satan has potential influence on everything and everyone.
So, if Jesus says that the mark of the “true Church” is at least two people who faultlessly and blamelessly live out the virtues and message of the Gospel at all times, tell me where I can find this “true Church” and I will sign up tomorrow…no, today.
What amazing claims? Infallibility? There are individuals that claim the same thing.
Amen. And it is from passages like Deut. 6:5 where veritable Christianity lies; not salvation being dependent on subjugation to the Roman Pontiff (Unam Sanctam), among other doctrines. But living your life in humility and in accordance to Matthew 25!
We’re just stating that the RCC’s unique claims are not warranted. No one is blameless, but churches or individuals can be wildly inacurate in their doctrines or interpretations.
Inexcusable or corrupt behavior does not automatically negate legitimate authority or correct doctrine. Jesus Himself, when speaking to the Jewish people about the Pharisees, told them “do as they say, just not as they do”, and never implied that simply because they were hypocritical, self-serving, and immoral that they were to be disregarded as their behavior no longer made their authority and leadership legitimate.
Authority was removed from the Jewish authorities for their corrupt behaviour. See Eli.
Well, what you were stating was that because the catholic church has committed certain atrocities they therefore cannot be the One True Church.
I would caution that there are many individuals who contend that the two principles are not mutually exclusive of one another. There is a great amount of humility in obedience to the Church. To Catholics, subjugation to the Church IS subjugation to God.
Actually, I’m lazy today. Give me the passages please, and then explain to me how that negates the instruction of Jesus for the people to obey the legitimate authority of the Pharisees, in spite of their personal inconsistencies.
Alien doctrines aside (if you want to bring that up, that is fine, but please start another thread on “alien doctrines” because I can guarantee it to be long and exhausting, and would completely derail this one), I disagree that the behavior of individual corruptible humans bolster the claim that any church is not of God.