Positive results of feminism ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter edwest2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
My question was defined. So as to avoid the meandering I’ve encountered here. A vague, general definition of feminism would not have helped.

It appears you wished I wrote the question to your liking.

Peace,
Ed
 
What social justice problems were solved by feminism?. The feminism I’m referring to is as described in the book The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan…[cut]…

Feminism, in my view, was a social engineering project designed to destroy families and male-female relationships in general. Men were all suspects and guilty until they kow-towed to the whims of the middle-man, in this case, NOW.

God bless,
Ed
I’ve just read the first chapter and the last chapter of Friedan’s book. From that perspective, I don’t see her claiming that all men were suspect and at fault. Also, I don’t see her as trying to sow enmity between the two sexes. Perhaps that is what she accomplished, nevertheless. I don’t know. She seems to hope that having a woman who has a mind that she knows will reduce her clingy behavior and make the relationship between the man and the woman healthier and happier for him.

She does seem to have an obsession with education, however. Specifically, the education is designed to use the person’s intelligence to the *maximum *and to allow them to engage in work that contributes meaningfully to society. 🤷 Things like the PTA, for example, are not meaningful. With the way she talks, I wonder if she can’t imagine anyone being happy with manual labor unless they are developmentally challenged. I think she is completely missing the religious dimension of meaning/life in her analysis.

I would need to read more to understand more fully, obviously. I do think she is encouraging at least one good thing. She is encouraging women to discover their vocation early on and plan their life accordingly. Her way of doing this would clearly allow a woman to decide to be a nun. She encourages women to discern their identity, who they are, what are their skills, etc.

This book is an amazing commentary on how I grew up. I’m not saying I agree with her, but the window into history is fun. She’s complaining about historical changes that she sees. How odd to read in retrospect.
 
Since the OP wants us to use his thread only to answer a question many of us have said is unanswerable, I agree that we can talk about the subject on another thread. Has someone already started it or should I?
 
The positive results of the feminism of the 1960’s as first put forward by Friedan and NOW was a re-examination of many laws that reduced a woman to chattle-status. A very negative effect of this same brand of feminism was the abolition of laws that ultimately protected women from being exploited, degraded and abused.

This is, of course, a very broad answer - ultimately, to view the feminist movement of the 1950’s and 1960’s as only negative is to ignore the hardships experienced by women prior to the re-examination of such things as credit laws, educational quotas, and inability to access certain types of employment possibilities that would allow for financial security and freedom. To see the same era in terms of only glowing achievement would ignore the havoc that resulted from things like ‘no-fault divorce’ and poorly written affirmative action laws.

All in all, the movement seems to reflect the fallen nature of human beings in general - we always have a way of taking a good idea and blowing it in pursuit of our own selfishness…
 
I will love to talk about Friedans work and what it did for women’s equality, but first Im little curious Edwest. Have you read The Feminine Mystique? Or are you jumping to a set of conclusions that someone else has drawn for you?
 
Once again, I would still appreciate a response to my original question and not a recasting or rephrasing, if you, or anyone else, doesn’t mind.

God bless,
Ed
 
Once again, I would still appreciate a response to my original question and not a recasting or rephrasing, if you, or anyone else, doesn’t mind.

God bless,
Ed
I didn’t try to recast your question. :confused: I expressly went out and obtained a copy of the exact book and read two of her chapters. I think it is possible for me to discuss the book. I directly addressed some of your thoughts about feminism (men were thought to be all guilty). I don’t think it is possible for me to know the actual impact that it had on society. Perhaps the book did make it more likely for a woman to be paid a suitable amount of money. Then again, maybe it had no effect on that. Maybe her book was only a sign of the times and the forces of change were already at work by the time it was published. I can, however, comment that some of her ideas were sound, like what I mentioned about discernment of vocation, a word that she actually used (which surprised me).
 
What social justice problems were solved by feminism?. The feminism I’m referring to is as described in the book The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan and the words and actions of Gloria Steinem and the National Organization of Women.

It appears that the only accomplishment was creating suspicion, fear and division between men and women. Even countries, when they disagree, need to establish lines of communication and understanding, seek common ground, build trust and identify, clearly, the problems they have and work toward a solution.

Feminism, in my view, was a social engineering project designed to destroy families and male-female relationships in general. Men were all suspects and guilty until they kow-towed to the whims of the middle-man, in this case, NOW.

God bless,
Ed
Positive results of feminism ?

None, other than yet another “experiment in evil” which God will use to bring forth “even more good”.
 
Once again, I would still appreciate a response to my original question and not a recasting or rephrasing, if you, or anyone else, doesn’t mind.

God bless,
Ed
😛 for some reason I completely missed pug comments, Im losing it heheheheehe Anyways. I think it does direct to you original question. How can you ask a question based on a book that you did not read? You sound like an AP journalist. 😃 well maybe not that bad…
 
Positive results of feminism ?

None, other than yet another “experiment in evil” which God will use to bring forth “even more good”.
Yes we are the answer to the WHY?
After all we are a Y not an X marks the spot!😛

Like why didn’t I create her first?

Why he was the "X"periement so He could get us just right.

D.
 
True Feminism

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2857146#pos257146

how do you do that “here” thing ?
Type the word “here” where you want the link to go. Then highlight the word “here” with the mouse. Then right about the box where you type the post are a bunch of symbols and controls for bold, italics, color, etc. Click the one that looks blue and like an earth with a black infinity or chain at the bottom. You will get a popup box. Type or paste your link in there and hit enter. The link will appear in the place where the word “here” is. The link won’t work yet, though. It will only work if you preview your post or actually post your post.
 
Seriously, people, do you really believe that the word “feminist” conjures up happy stay-at-home moderate moms?

Of course not. The label “feminist” has been pretty much completely taken over by the very un-feminine, man-hating, pro-abortion crowd at NOW. NOW insists on screaming to anyone who will listen that they they are the voice of American women and that liberation of women will come through work and abortion. Pro-lifers and women who don’t get paid for their work (especially stay-at-home moms) need not apply. (As one recent book said, “Shut up and get back to work!”)

I’ve read The Feminine Mystique; all of it, unfortunately (ok, I skimmed the chapters that fawned over Freud and Kinsey, since both of them are pretty thoroughly repudiated, but Freidan put a lot of weight on their “research” to support her claims). Freidan uses a lot of anecdotes and very little in the way of statistics. When she does use numbers, there isn’t any backup for them. She got the original idea by polling people at her college reunion. What were the questions? Did she slant the survey? Even in the footnotes, she doesn’t actually show us the survey. She keeps saying “most” and “many”; how many? And is most 51% or 90%? She seems to be intentionally fluffing her numbers by not telling us what, exactly, they were.

And why is some women’s college from New England “normal” for the U.S., at a time when very few people had the opportunity to go to college (and probably even fewer women)? Are the women who chose to come to the reunion representative of the class as a whole? Is that one class representative of the other classes from that decade? Are women referred by psychologists (this is how she found people to provide more anecdotes for the book) representative of American women as a whole?

The edition I read was the 20th anniversary edition, with some additional material. Freidan claims she didn’t mean to create this man-hating monster that modern feminism became, but, given what she wrote, you have to wonder what she thought she was creating. Freidan also lets you in on something not mentioned in the original edition: her own marriage was unhappy. The Feminine Mystique ends up coming across as a long-winded explanation of why Betty Freidan wanted a divorce and why she shouldn’t feel the least bit guilty about it.

We all have days when we wish we were more appreciated. We all have days when we wish we could jet around the country doing Important Work and being lauded for it, instead of dealing with our demanding children in the anonymity of our own homes. Most of us, however, come back to reality and deal with what needs to be done on a daily basis and recognize the daydreaming for what it is. Betty Freidan called the daydream reality and assumed that all women could be liberated from their families to pursue Important Work. The reality is that most people don’t get the cool, fun, exciting, liberating jobs Freidan dreams about. So, you tore apart the fabric of society for… jobs as daycare attendants? (Talk about the self-licking ice cream cone: women leave their kids at daycare so they can go to work, thus requiring that other women staff the daycare. So, those women leave their kids at a cheaper daycare, which also needs staffing…)

EARLY feminism got the anti-abortion laws passed. EARLY feminism won women’s suffrage, started changing property laws, etc. (And when you’re talking about “feminism” as a movement, no, it did NOT exist in the Middle Ages or even in the early 1800’s. Not everyone who said, “Women should be treated better,” was a feminist.)

Yes, there are some good feminist groups out there, like Feminists for Life (started by several women who were ejected from NOW because they wouldn’t swallow the new pro-abortion stance). They got a bill passed encouraging colleges to include pregnancy services (not just abortions) and student housing for parenting students.

NOW, unfortunately, is all about pushing abortion, and they are the main face of feminism today. You can pretend that it’s only “some” of the NOW members, but what else have you seen them do? NOW successfully lobbied to get abortion added to the Equal Rights Amendment; the states that have passed the ERA have been forced to fund abortions with tax dollars. Due to its use to force abortion-on-demand, several states have even rescinded their ratification of the ERA. NOW’s fixation on abortion killed the ERA, which could have been a real influence for equal rights.
 
Let’s chew on this:

Excerpt from an article by a feminist:

Men who think women exist to aid men’s dominion are not going to be very good partners to women, and they’re going to find themselves mighty frustrated whenever their female partner demonstrates that she has a brain and free will. Women who expect to be treated as sub-human, or who need male companionship for social and economic support, or who think sex is for male pleasure, or who expect their male partners to be unemotional and perpetually “manly” instead of fully human, are going to have a mighty hard time finding happiness in their relationships.
alternet.org/blogs/peek/65468/
 
Thank you, Gardening Mommy for your detailed response. I was there throughout the modern Women’s Lib movement. I watched as women were radicalized. I flipped through Ms. Magazine with Gloria Steinem at the helm. It was an attempt to create a Playboy for women.

You are very right about getting those high-powered, high paying jobs. Some women did want to stay home and raise the kids they brought into this world. I have compassion for those women who were brutalized, physically and verbally, by their husbands. I know one of these women and I saw the anguish on her face as she described what she went through.

There was a concerted effort through the late 1960s and through the 1970s to reengineer America. For Catholics, it was a transition from a Church centered, family oriented, cooperative community to what we have today. The Hippies and Miss Steinem wanted to rearrange everything, even if it meant “burning down the country.” But lives and societies are not furniture. NOW was not Biblically based. It was loud, shrill and confrontational, as were a lot of Hippies and Anarchists.

I think it revictimized victims of abusive husbands and offered them hope for not a better relationship with men but a future filled with power and empowerment. But, once again, relationships between human beings involving true love, true caring and true partnership are not meant to be power plays negotiated at a conference table. Betty Friedan described the family as “a comfortable concentration camp.” Modern Feminism became a cult and its leaders convinced women to be and remain victims of what they called a patriarchal society bent on their subjugation. So they figuratively and literally separated women from men. They created Feminist Culture, Feminist Art, Women’s Studies and other events that built a wall between men and women.

And where are women today? No-Fault Divorce has meant that I know a lot of divorced women, with 2 or 3 divorces being not uncommon. The media has helped spread the message of “have sex first and ask questions later, if ever.” An example of this is the TV program Grey’s Anatomy where Dr. Grey picks up an anonymous guy at a bar, has sex with him, and tells him it’s unimportant to know who he is or who she is. And too many young men and young women, including Catholics, are shacking up, having sex, using contraception, and well, just don’t care. Is it right? is it wrong? Well, everybody’s doing it, right? Even divorced moms.

I am happy to hear about Feminists for Life but the other radical variety of feminist is still around, still trying to convince women that men are a useless appendage, abortion is the great equalizer (a man doesn’t have a uterus and besides, it’s her body which she let some man use and now she’s pregnant).

No, I’m not advocating women be kept as slaves, however, there was a method of courtship, dating, talking with each other’s parents, and priests, that were all part of my life that were there to help me. I am advocating getting rid of the idea that all women are victims, all men are guilty of plotting against all women, and a return to a way that promotes healthy, and holy relationships between men and women. Getting to know the other person, getting to know their parents, showing, by word and deed, that you are an honorable, responsible and stable person, and then, if you want to get married, going through a process that weeds out the bad guys from the good.

It can be done. It is being done (example: avemariasingles.com), but it’s not being advertised much. Young people today, without the guiding hand of their parents, are more likely to do what the crowd is doing.

God bless,
Ed
 
A lot of posters mention that “Equal Pay” and presumably, “Equal Opportunity” have been Positive effects of Feminism. That position seems incompetent (no offense meant, just a fact) to me, because Equal Pay encourages Women To Work and, as an unavoidable result, discourages Men To Work, because Men have to compete with them, instead of just **taking care of them! **:rolleyes:

So, it seems reasonable to conclude: it is toxic to family life and, by extension, Life As We Know It.

All the “positives” from Feminism seem to revolve around, The Sexual Revolution/The Modern Era and its fallout.
:stretcher:
 
A lot of posters mention that “Equal Pay” and presumably, “Equal Opportunity” have been Positive effects of Feminism. That position seems incompetent (no offense meant, just a fact) to me, because Equal Pay encourages Women To Work and, as an unavoidable result, discourages Men To Work, because Men have to compete with them, instead of just **taking care of them! **:rolleyes:

So, it seems reasonable to conclude: it is toxic to family life and, by extension, Life As We Know It.

All the “positives” from Feminism seem to revolve around, The Sexual Revolution/The Modern Era and its fallout.
:stretcher:
Hmmm, working with this concept, which couples have the economic advantage, the male homosexual ones, or the heterosexual ones? I think the gay male couples are encouraged, since they will have the most money under your system.

I think you are better off paying married men more than unmarried men. That’s the ticket. 😛
 
Hmmm, working with this concept, which couples have the economic advantage, the male homosexual ones, or the heterosexual ones? I think the gay male couples are encouraged, since they will have the most money under your system.

I think you are better off paying married men more than unmarried men. That’s the ticket. 😛
Ha ha, that’s funny! 😃

Seriously though, without Feminism, Homosexuality wouldn’t be as prevalent, because Homosexuals seem to come exclusively from female dominated homes. The fathers are either absent or withdrawn. N.A.R.L. has good stuff on that.

It isn’t surprising to see Homosexuals demanding rights; after all they live in a culture that has created an environment that encourages Homosexuality. And you can say the same thing about Feminism; we live in a culture that discourages, female reliance on men.

Of course, you can say that’s just a reaction to men’s behavior, but it seems like everybody was involved in The Sexual Revolution/The Modern Era and its wake. But, you know, they say the whole thing was “engineered” anyway, by a bunch of elites who were Degenerates (read Degenerate Moderns, by E. Michael Jones). They had The Mass Media, Public Schools, Universities, Major Foundations and* Boot Camp! *So, it isn’t surprising that they swayed public opinion, in their favor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top