Positive results of feminism ?

[larkin31]

They are also much less likely to have children and much more likely to get divorced and if they do get divorced, it is almost 100% of them that file it. ** It should beg the question, what are they teaching in those schools, that makes women so infertile and unfaithful. …**…

Is this a serious question? I am having difficulty judging whether your posts have any intended irony or sarcasm in them. Can you make this clear, please. Do you really wonder if the educational material of a classroom is linked to divorce rates, say, 25 years later?

 

[TarkanAttila]

They are also much less likely to have children and much more likely to get divorced and if they do get divorced, it is almost 100% of them that file it. It should beg the question, what are they teaching in those schools, that makes women so infertile and unfaithful. But, then again, if I was an Atheist, which I used to be, I can’t see how I would care, outside of maybe being concerned about the future of my father’s line and, by extension, my ethnic group. But, a lot of people think that any concern for that would be just the result of some sort of cultural conditioning, by *Old Patriarchal Oppressors In Smokey Back Rooms *or something like that. So, whatever

There is truth in this man’s statement.

I’ve been attending a male leadership programme for Catholics called “That Man is You”, and a few weeks back we talked about the negative impact of modern ideas of family and society on the family and on society as a whole. Modern secular education leads to decreasing birth (and in turn population) rates - as does increasing economic status.

Here is an outline of one of their talks. They also have parts of videos on the Paradisus Dei site as well. I recommend my fellow men - especially ones with young families - go check it out. It’s very enlightening.

Modern education in America and Europe are ultimately intended to boost the economy and make the Western World prosperous by convincing people that individual advancement and economic prosperity, are key to success. This causes women and men both to seek education and careers before children. The problem? Women and men are at their peak fertilities in their early to mid 20s. It sharply decreases thereafter. “Career” women may not seek children until they are in their 30s, when fertility is sharply on the decline. Therefore, there is little wonder that there are fewer children today than there were in yesteryear.

Let me say, however, that I have no problem with a woman pursuing a secular career outside of motherhood. But I do think that the time for one’s career should AFTER one has children. Children are our future, and without them no society can survive. The most valuable resource on this Earth is people. A country with rich farmland or massive deposits of metal is useless if there’s no one there to till the soil or dig mines.

We are losing people at a rapid rate, simply because we are not meeting the population replacement rate - 2.1 children per 2 people. In America our childbirth rate is around 1.6 children per 2 people, and in Europe it is on average 1.4. Unless we turn the tide of things and educate our children righteously, humanity will die out for the stupidest reason of them all: because he didn’t make any offspring.

Once again, career women are not bad women. But being a good, Christian mother is a higher calling and a better thing for society than even the most influential of politicians or the wealthiest of billionaires. You cannot take riches or political influence to Heaven with you. When you are dead they are irrelevant, unless you used them for God’s greater glory.

Even then, the mother does the service of producing more politicians, workers, preachers, and humans of all walks, and she teaches them how to be human. The parent teaches their children what it means to be human. More than any politician or businessman ever could, the parents set their children’s course in life by their example.

And that is why I will not look for a woman and have children of my own until I understand how to raise children. (I’m 19 anyway. I’ve got time.)

 

[TarkanAttila]

I agree with you.

Feminism in its current form is masculinism. So really it is a misnomer.

Real feminism would be when child rearing is given equal value as running a corporation.

When washing dishes, feeding children, cleaning the house is considered as worthwhile as working on computers, selling cars, trading in the stock market.

When women are willing to pay their childcare provider the same salary that they will earn doing a man’s job.

When women’s self esteem rest not on what they do but on the intrinsic dignity of being a child of God.

Now this is an enlightened man, folks. Listen to him. He knows what he is talking about.

A good, loving, Christian mother is a more valuable asset than the top 1% of wealthy people in this nation. Why do you think we Catholics call the poor teenage wife of a carpenter and mother of a carpenter Our Queen?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree with you.

Feminism in its current form is masculinism. So really it is a misnomer.

Real feminism would be when child rearing is given equal value as running a corporation.

When washinig dishes, feeding children, cleaning the house is considered as worthwhile as working on computers, selling cars, trading in the stock market.

When women are willing to pay their childcare provider the same salary that they will earn doing a man’s job.

When women’s self esteem rest not on what they do but on the intrinsic dignity of being a child of God.

:clapping:

But it won’t happen in today’s culture which tells women they have to be like a man in order to be a woman!!!

 

[larkin31]

We are losing people at a rapid rate, simply because we are not meeting the population replacement rate - 2.1 children per 2 people. In America our childbirth rate is around 1.6 children per 2 people, and in Europe it is on average 1.4. Unless we turn the tide of things and educate our children righteously, humanity will die out for the stupidest reason of them all: because he didn’t make any offspring…

Your assumptions and math are both wrong. America and Europe, together, do not equal a generalization about “the world.” “Humanity” is increasing on the planet at a very high rate.

Are you really only thinking of traditionally white and Christian cultures? Do you not see the bias/prejudice in your fear for “humanity”?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

They are also much less likely to have children and much more likely to get divorced and if they do get divorced, it is almost 100% of them that file it. It should beg the question, what are they teaching in those schools, that makes women so infertile and unfaithful. But, then again, if I was an Atheist, which I used to be, I can’t see how I would care, outside of maybe being concerned about the future of my father’s line and, by extension, my ethnic group. But, a lot of people think that any concern for that would be just the result of some sort of cultural conditioning, by *Old Patriarchal Oppressors In Smokey Back Rooms *or something like that. So, whatever

It would seem more consistent with your worldview to be against education for girls anyway Cambridge.

Even misogynistic savages like the Taliban are sophisticated enough to understand that one of the best ways to ‘keep women in line’ is to keep them uneducated and illiterate.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

O.k., I think I get your point now. I was a little confused about this. So, I’m glad you’ve been bringing it up, because it helped me to think about it. Although, I have got a very long ignore list and a lousy reputation now, as a result of posting what I actually think, in this super-politically-incorrect thread
]

There are now quite a few educated, accomplished, working women in the world, and I am fairly certain that a lot of the posters here (on Catholic Answers) fall into that category.

Is it really that much of a surprise that you would encounter hostility when verbally supporting the traditional viewpoint that women should be kept ‘barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.’?

 

[larkin31]

It would seem more consistent with your worldview to be against education for girls anyway Cambridge.

Even misogynistic savages like the Taliban are sophisticated enough to understand that one of the best ways to ‘keep women in line’ is to keep them uneducated and illiterate.

It was slave-owner strategy, too.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Alright, so your point is, shouldn’t women get the vote, if men have it. And, I wondered why you kept bringing it up, because I thought I made it clear the first time I mentioned voting, that I could care less about voting, because I think it’s just a scam anyway. But, you seem really into it and I think that is because you are an American and Americans are supposed to think that voting is a really big deal, because of the American Revolution, but what seems to get lost in the schools and media is that The American Revolution was motivated by Radicalism. Radicalism is motivated by a profound rejection of Rank. Hence, the rejection of the rank of The King. Since The King is the ultimate Patriarch (at least in a national sense), then all Patriarchy could be invalidated, by extension, by that revolutionary thought. Since voting is supposed to replace the rule of The King and, as good Radicals, we are supposed to believe that all people should have the same Rank, then it stands to reason, that all people should have the vote, regardless of any possible exception and that this would be a big deal, almost or perhaps as big a deal, as a king’s right to rule.

youtube.com/watch?v=o5kXYUv_0FE

As I have said before, a rigid hierarchy with little to no chance of advancement for those on the lower levels might be attractive for those at the top of the hierarchy. But not for those outside of the elite.

Extreme patriarchy might seem like a sweet deal for the elite in such a hierarchy (men). But for women (who automatically become the inferior gender in such a setup) or men who genuinely care about the welfare of women, such a type of rigid hierarchy is far less attractive.

 

[benedictus2]

Now this is an enlightened man, folks. Listen to him. He knows what he is talking about.

A good, loving, Christian mother is a more valuable asset than the top 1% of wealthy people in this nation. Why do you think we Catholics call the poor teenage wife of a carpenter and mother of a carpenter Our Queen?

:clapping:

But it won’t happen in today’s culture which tells women they have to be like a man in order to be a woman!!!

Thanks to you both.

Incidentally, I am female.

And it can happen in today’s culture if real women stop buying into the lesbian agenda.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Your assumptions and math are both wrong. America and Europe, together, do not equal a generalization about “the world.” “Humanity” is increasing on the planet at a very high rate.

Are you really only thinking of traditionally white and Christian cultures? Do you not see the bias/prejudice in your fear for “humanity”?

How to put this… yes the population is growing, but not among the more educated and the more prosperous. The people who will succeed the white Western man are by no means barbaric, but they generally are less educated and poorer and more religious.

The Hispanic Catholic demographic ranked 40% or so in a recent survey of which types of religious people know their religions.(I wish I could remember which survey.) Many Catholics are not even aware that the Bread and the Wine become real Body and Blood, much less other more important things. These are not model Catholics. Model Catholics are informed and educated - aware of what they are doing wrong, and what they are doing right.

Society needs a makeover. We cannot continue to preach that money and power and status will make us happy. It’s a lie. We must teach people that families are the key to societal success. Above all (except God), the family is the integral unit on which society rests. Without strong, moral, educated, Godly families, society will collapse, regardless of how much money we make.

We must educate people in religion. Christianity is not meant to be a political tool or a tool to make war anymore than it is meant to control God. But unless people learn this, we will end up repeating the Middle Ages all over again. Christians today are very fortunate to be as educated as they are. 1000 years ago, many Christians (more Christianised pagans) thought that Christ was just another god in a pantheon, or that the Blessed Host could be used like some magic charm to fertilise their crops, among other things. We cannot allow that the happen again! (Source: Life in the Middle Ages, by Jay Williams. 1966, Random House.)

 

[Julianna]

You talk about widows, when we have a divorce rate over 50% and over 70% of those divorces are filed by women! Over 36% of all births in The U.S.A. are illegitimate and, for the most part, CHOSEN to be so, by liberated mommies. 100% of abortions are CHOSEN by “liberated” murderesses. Feminism and The Sexual Revolution have the same parents. Are you only seeing what you want to see and ignoring the rest?

How many of the 50% of women initiated divorce due to adultery? addiction? abuse?

 

[StTommyMore]

How many of the 50% of women initiated divorce due to adultery? addiction? abuse?

I have stopped responding to him due to his unbridled misogyny.

 

[Julianna]

Thanks to you both.
Incidentally, I am female.
And it can happen in today’s culture if real women stop buying into the lesbian agenda.

I was wondering how long it would take before someone mentioned the “homosexual agenda”. Hmmmm over 15 pages…

As a wife of over 30 years and the mother of two young adults…I must have missed the lesbian agenda. I didn’t get the memo, I guess.

Do you see how ridiculas this sounds?

As a free American (Thank God for our troops) woman, you and I have many opportunities in this life that women, say in Saudi Arabia do not, or in some African cultures where they are not allowed to drive, to vote, to speak, and are sexually mutilated so they become sexual toys for their husbands or any other man. Ever hear of women in India (one fo the most densely populated countries) dying in “kitchen fires”? Oh, yeah…evidently she burned the toast and poof…she is burned to death.

You and I have the right to an education, the right to vote, we can marry or not. If your Catholic practices are true, we also have the right to reject chemical contraception and abortion. We also have the right to speak out against it as “Catholics”. We have right to practice our faith according to it’s tennets. While having these rights, we also respect the rights of those who do not hold Catholic faith principles. Keep in mind what Cambridge is spouting off…a priest would shrug off as nonsense. Especially in America.

If your husband has the financial means for you to live out your vocation as a wife and mother…I think that is great. If you feel your vocation is to be a SAHM, great! If you don’t want an education beyond high school…you have that right. I say great.

I will add the following: 1. Make sure your name is on all bank accounts, 2. Make sure your name is on any/all vehicles you drive 3. Make sure your name is on the deed to the house…or lease, if you are renting.

I didn’t want to leave my children in daycare…however in order to buy a home in the 80’s, I needed an outside job. So I worked at a daycare, my children were always with me, a room away. I had the pleasure of doing a vocation that I loved, teaching pre-school. The money wasn’t great, but it was enough to purchase our first home. I stayed in this vocation until my children went to Catholic school. Then I got a job there as a Director of a before and after school program. I also taught CCD on Wednesday nights for the public school students. I enjoyed every minute of it. My facebook page is filled with my former students who remember me fondly. They are in college, married, have children and yes, a few of them are gay… and I love them all. This was my vocation. I had the best of both worlds.

My children are grown and now I have changed vocations/jobs. My DH and I ride to work together and his job is a few streets over from mine. You and I are lucky…we live in a country where we have many opportunities. The only thing I see lacking…is “respect” for a chosen vocation.

Cambridge doesn not respect women who are educated, work outside the home, or have any higher brain matter than that of a doormat.

The Stepford Wives must be his favorite read…

 

[AngryAtheist8]

How many of the 50% of women initiated divorce due to adultery? addiction? abuse?

I suspect Cambridge would regard those numbers as irrelevant.

 

[Cambridge]

How many of the 50% of women initiated divorce due to adultery? addiction? abuse?

So, you think the root cause of a high divorce rate is men.

 

[larkin31]

How to put this… yes the population is growing, but not among the more educated and the more prosperous. The people who will succeed the white Western man are by no means barbaric, but they generally are less educated and poorer and more religious…

“Succeed” in what sense? “Replace”? “Take over”? Just what are you referring to?

And so what? Is this a racial preference remark? Do you have an objection to the top jobs and top education going more frequently to women or to members of other racial make-ups?

 

[benedictus2]

I was wondering how long it would take before someone mentioned the “homosexual agenda”. Hmmmm over 15 pages…

As a wife of over 30 years and the mother of two young adults…I must have missed the lesbian agenda. I didn’t get the memo, I guess.

Do you see how ridiculas this sounds?

As a free American (Thank God for our troops) woman, you and I have many opportunities in this life that women, say in Saudi Arabia do not, or in some African cultures where they are not allowed to drive, to vote, to speak, and are sexually mutilated so they become sexual toys for their husbands or any other man. Ever hear of women in India (one fo the most densely populated countries) dying in “kitchen fires”? Oh, yeah…evidently she burned the toast and poof…she is burned to death.

You and I have the right to an education, the right to vote, we can marry or not. If your Catholic practices are true, we also have the right to reject chemical contraception and abortion. We also have the right to speak out against it as “Catholics”. We have right to practice our faith according to it’s tennets. While having these rights, we also respect the rights of those who do not hold Catholic faith principles. Keep in mind what Cambridge is spouting off…a priest would shrug off as nonsense. Especially in America.

If your husband has the financial means for you to live out your vocation as a wife and mother…I think that is great. If you feel your vocation is to be a SAHM, great! If you don’t want an education beyond high school…you have that right. I say great.

I will add the following: 1. Make sure your name is on all bank accounts, 2. Make sure your name is on any/all vehicles you drive 3. Make sure your name is on the deed to the house…or lease, if you are renting.

I didn’t want to leave my children in daycare…however in order to buy a home in the 80’s, I needed an outside job. So I worked at a daycare, my children were always with me, a room away. I had the pleasure of doing a vocation that I loved, teaching pre-school. The money wasn’t great, but it was enough to purchase our first home. I stayed in this vocation until my children went to Catholic school. Then I got a job there as a Director of a before and after school program. I also taught CCD on Wednesday nights for the public school students. I enjoyed every minute of it. My facebook page is filled with my former students who remember me fondly. They are in college, married, have children and yes, a few of them are gay… and I love them all. This was my vocation. I had the best of both worlds.

My children are grown and now I have changed vocations/jobs. My DH and I ride to work together and his job is a few streets over from mine. You and I are lucky…we live in a country where we have many opportunities. The only thing I see lacking…is “respect” for a chosen vocation.

Cambridge doesn not respect women who are educated, work outside the home, or have any higher brain matter than that of a doormat.

The Stepford Wives must be his favorite read…

But you completely missed my point. This is not about becoming Stepford wives.

I am all for the vote, for learning, etc, etc.

But, whether you like it or not, the strongest advocates for homosexual union, abortion, etc, etc, are hard core feminist.

To acknowledge that women equally have a brain is good. That they have the right to vote is good.

But to insist that “empowerment” comes from working in “masculine” jobs is ludicrous.

**What that does is re-affirm the male chauvinistic mentality that what is essentially male is good and what is essentially female is not that important.

**If you look at the male chauvinistic cartoons back then, it is not that it says women are second class but that women are second class because the only thing they are capable of is housework and caring for babies. This therefore means that the intrinsically female attributes are what is being labelled unimportant.

That is why I said, if the campaign had been to force the men to recognize that all that women do - child bearing, nurturing, home care - IS OF EQUAL VALUE TO WHAT MEN TRADITIONALLY DO, then that is true feminism.

Read what die hard feminists say - they see this gift of being able to bear children as a curse.

They have reduced the essence of a woman to function.

So yes, at the forefront of feminism lie the lesbian agenda.

As I said before, if you truly value what is feminine, then you would pay the same rate to your child care giver (which is the mother’s duty) as you would earn in working at a traditionally male job.

So those who look after the welfare of the children of the women soldiers, should probably be paid the same as the women soldiers.

For one thing, why would a woman abandon family and home to fight? Isn’t that another re-enforcement that what is traditionally a male occupation is more important than a female “occupation”?

 

[PRmerger]

I agree with you.

Feminism in its current form is masculinism. So really it is a misnomer.

Real feminism would be when child rearing is given equal value as running a corporation.

When washinig dishes, feeding children, cleaning the house is considered as worthwhile as working on computers, selling cars, trading in the stock market.

When women are willing to pay their childcare provider the same salary that they will earn doing a man’s job.

When women’s self esteem rest not on what they do but on the intrinsic dignity of being a child of God.

Indeed. Real feminism would be when society conforms its ideas to the feminist ideals of Jesus. And the great Catholic thinkers like Pope JPII.

I like to say that I am feminist the way Pope JPII is a feminist. And the way Jesus is, too.

 

[PRmerger]

Divorce is an important legal option for failed (or worse) marriages. Divorce needs no apologetics in modern society.

Oh, but indeed it does, larkin.

To wit:
*
Mental Health: The issue off mental health is closely related to social effects of divorce. Divorce leaves a deep lasting impact on the mental constitution. Generally, professional therapists solve short-term mental health problems caused by divorce. But they often leave behind a residue of hurt and betrayal. This residue becomes stronger and impairs the mental health of the society as a whole. We must remember that the children of divorce today will grow up to be adults of divorce tomorrow. If their mental health is impaired, the future of society in the social, cultural, political and economic aspect is bound to suffer.

Mentally weak adults are not able to maintain long-lasting personal relationships. In fact, social psychologists argue that more than 23% of divorced children grow up to become serial divorcers. They are unable to make a full commitment to anyone. They develop phobias, depressive disorders and hallucinatory behaviour. They can be described as drifters. On the work side, these adults are unable to perform to the optimum. Consequently their work cycle suffers. Production goes down and consequently profits decline. Export and import of item halts. The economy starts to go downhill*.source