Possible Liturgical Abuses

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Hello,

My local parish is like most every other parish in the United States, more progressive than traditional. I go to the Spanish Mass, though, and it seems worse to me.
As a hispanic, I have to abide to the USCCB, right?
What about the Priest and the parts of the Mass?

And again, my parish, like most parishes now-a days, have no kneelers nor crucifix, and the shape makes it more like an Auditorium. All this bother me and it makes me want to criticize, so I stay quiet.

What am I to do in a situation where I don’t really know if Liturgical abuses are going on, but things do seem wrong to me, yet I hesitate to contact the Bishop because I do not want to incriminate anyone; and I do not feel that the Pastor would give me right answers…
I could list or go in detail about these “possible” abuses if you want me to.

The other issue is with the people. These people have no education at all about the Mass, and they go out of tradition (I go to the Spanish Mass), and I really don’t know what I can do other than be an example. But the problem is that it hurts me and makes me angry to see the way they behave, yet I don’t know what to do…
 
Here are some of my concerns, which I do not know if they are abuses.
Can someone tell me with official documents if they are abuses or not, and what can I do in order to stop this?
(also, note that this is a Spanish Mass)
  • The Priest sometimes seem to add or modify certain prayers at the Offering (offertory?).
  • He does not pick up the Body and Blood when he says “Behold the Lamb of God…” but rather leaves it on the Altar.
  • There is an altar girl now and then (this does not bother me much).
  • Sometimes the Priest does not say the Agnues Dei.
  • People go around the Altar (behind it) for the Our Father.
  • There are many extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers
  • Right after Communion there are parish announcements
  • In the Homily sometimes someone else speaks and after that person (a lay person) is finished the Priest gives his Homily
  • The Choir has string music playing during Consacration
  • No one kneels for Consecration or the Sanctus (there arent even any kneelers)
  • The cups for the Blood are crystal
  • The Reservation Chapel is not even finished and the Monstrance is… not a Monstrance at all…
  • There is no Monstrance near the Altar nor in the Church itself (where Mass takes place).
And I do not know what else.

I do not want to directly go to the Pastor nor the Bishop because I am not sure what is abuse or not, and I do not want to get anyone in trouble; besides, one cannot ask of a person what that person cannot give (sadly most people of my culture are only Catholic because of the culture).

I also do not feel that the Pastor is that solid in the liturgical norms, God forgive me.
 
J1Priest,
You can go here
catholic.com/library/liturgical_abuses.asp
and see if this helps any. If something grave is occurring, we have the responsibility to 1. say something to the pastor (be sure you look things up first) 2 after you have said something to the pastor and these things addressed are not corrected, then you write to the Bishop.
There may be a logical explanation as to why you do not have kneelers, eg couldn’t afford to begin with but are coming when funds allow. Without know specific tho, it is hard to address them. Check out the link first.
 
  • The Priest sometimes seem to add or modify certain prayers at the Offering (offertory?). This is ok
  • He does not pick up the Body and Blood when he says “Behold the Lamb of God…” but rather leaves it on the Altar.
  • There is an altar girl now and then (this does not bother me much).This is up to Bishop and priest whether or not to allow girls as altar servers
  • Sometimes the Priest does not say the Agnues Dei.Pretty sure this should be said at every Mass
  • People go around the Altar (behind it) for the Our Father.Are these people the EMHC? If so, then they are going up too early as they should approach after the priest has consumed communion
  • There are many extraordinary Eucharistic MinistersThis is not ok BUT is VERY common in many places…can’t stand it myself. But this would be something that after I got to know the priest I would point out
  • Right after Communion there are parish announcements
  • In the Homily sometimes someone else speaks and after that person (a lay person) is finished the Priest gives his HomilyIs this a due to a translation of maybe the priests’ homily? If it is something entirely different than what the priest is saying, then it is not ok
  • The Choir has string music playing during ConsacrationNo
  • No one kneels for Consecration or the Sanctus (there arent even any kneelers)
  • The cups for the Blood are crystalNOT ok.
  • The Reservation Chapel is not even finished and the Monstrance is… not a Monstrance at all…
  • There is no Monstrance near the Altar nor in the Church itself (where Mass takes place).The Monstrance is what is used during Eucharistic Adoration so if there is no Eucharistic Adoration, then it is not required.
 
One more thing, when you do address these issues with the priest, remember, charity.
This is something I have done in the past. Some have blown me off, others, did not have any idea that they were doing something wrong and were quit thankful.
Be sure to write down what concerns/abuses you have seen. Reference these to the document I provided. And when you talk to the priest, give him a copy too.
 
What is happening in your parish would probably constitute the ‘Liturgical Abuses Greatest Hits’ for most parishes (barring the Diocese of Orange:D ). But you implied you thought it was the norm in parishes. It isn’t. It may be common, but I hardly think most priests don’t even have crucifixes in their churches!

How to address this issue is always tough, but I would say get involved as a reader/ parish councillor/ Master of Ceremonies and try to change things bit by bit. Cut down the number of EMHCs would be good. Get a crucifix and kneelers. Maybe it’s unlikely, but you won’t know until you have tried.

If the priest is of the arch-liberal, ordained 1965-1980 variety then there may not be much hope, I am afraid. It is tricky. Most likely he will listen to reason on some but not all of the issues. Deal with the worst first, which are, in my opinion, the dropping of parts of the mass, the lack of crucifix and tabernacle and the crystal cups.
 
Wow, thanks a lot to you guys.
I’ll be sure to look these up and copy down the documents.

The Priest, I think he might be more in the progreissive side, and the Pastor, I haven’t really talked much.

I’ll make sure to put it into prayer and do further research before addressing such things.

God bless

PS:
Does anyone know where I could find documents talking about people not supposed to be gathering around the Altar for the Our Father?
And the crystal cups for the Blood?
 
This is for the chalice (you can find this from the link I provided below)
  1. Sacred Vessels
[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.[205]The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,[206]so that honour will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.[207]

[118.] Before they are used, sacred vessels are to be blessed by a Priest according to the rites laid down in the liturgical books.[208] It is praiseworthy for the blessing to be given by the diocesan Bishop, who will judge whether the vessels are worthy of the use to which they are destined
 
H_Opey said:
This is for the chalice (you can find this from the link I provided below)
  1. Sacred Vessels
[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.[205]The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,[206]so that honour will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.[207]

[118.] Before they are used, sacred vessels are to be blessed by a Priest according to the rites laid down in the liturgical books.[208] It is praiseworthy for the blessing to be given by the diocesan Bishop, who will judge whether the vessels are worthy of the use to which they are destined
Click to expand...
and this is for ALL chalices, not just the one in which the wine is consacreted, right?
What I mean is that they bring about 4-6 crystal cups, but the one that the Priest actually lifts up is solid and not crystal.
Then again, the construction of the Church does not allow me to see well since the side of the altar is right in front of me, rather than me in front of the altar
 
ALL not just some or one, ALL are to be of a precious metal so breakage does not occur.
 
H_Opey said:
  • The Priest sometimes seem to add or modify certain prayers at the Offering (offertory?). This is ok
Click to expand...
Pax tecum!

No, a priest cannot change the words of the Mass. There are only two points in which he is allowed to use some different words. That is at the beginning of Mass, when he is allowed to give a short introduction to the Mass of the day, and before the Our Father when he invites everyone to pray it. The Offertory is not one of those parts, and the priest has no authority to change anything about it.
 
HOLD ON Rand,
Maybe I am misunderstanding what the Offetory is.
This is the part of the mass where we respond “Lord Hear Our Prayer”. This is where the priest makes the prayers known, his own and for those of the people, church, etc. EG today on EWTN the priest had a special intention. These are not layed out in a book. Am I correct?
 
J1Priest said:
Here are some of my concerns, which I do not know if they are abuses.
Can someone tell me with official documents if they are abuses or not, and what can I do in order to stop this?
(also, note that this is a Spanish Mass)
  • The Priest sometimes seem to add or modify certain prayers at the Offering (offertory?).
    The priest has his choice of Eucharistic prayers
  • He does not pick up the Body and Blood when he says “Behold the Lamb of God…” but rather leaves it on the Altar.
    At the fraction he must follow the rubrics, but he does not have to elevate the host over his head, just chest level.
  • There is an altar girl now and then (this does not bother me much).
    If your bishop permits girls to serve at the altar, it is the priest’s decision whether or not to let them.
  • Sometimes the Priest does not say the Agnues Dei.
    that is a prayer of the congregation, usually led by the cantor
  • People go around the Altar (behind it) for the Our Father.
    which people? there should not be any members of the congregation around the altar. From the description of your church I am not getting a clear picture, if they are not actually in the sanctuary it is not an abuse, but why do it? It is not in the rubrics.
  • There are many extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers
    that depends on how many are receiving communion, and how many priests and deacons are available to distribute, that again is the priest’s judgement.
  • Right after Communion there are parish announcements
    that is the proper time for announcements, after the communion prayer and a brief period of silence, before the closing and final blessing.
  • In the Homily sometimes someone else speaks and after that person (a lay person) is finished the Priest gives his Homily
    If a lay person is to speak it cannot replace the homily, so as long as the priest gives a homily, even a brief one, that is okay, if the topic is important, and it is only occassional, such as a visiting missionary sister. As a regular practice, no it is not allowed, and the lay person should speak from another location, not where the gospel is read and homily given. If it is an announcement about something like a parish event, that should be after communion.
  • The Choir has string music playing during Consacration
    no music during the Eucharistic prayer, except if it is chanted, organist may cue priest with a tone in the right key
  • No one kneels for Consecration or the Sanctus (there arent even any kneelers)
    that is an abuse, find out if your bishop has a timetable to replace kneelers in newer churches that don’t have them.
  • The cups for the Blood are crystal
    that is not allowed, the material must be a valuable material and unbreakable, but not an abuse on a major scale
  • The Reservation Chapel is not even finished and the Monstrance is… not a Monstrance at all…
    well if they are still building the chapel and work is progressing I guess you will still have to wait, I don’t know what you mean by the monstrance.
  • There is no Monstrance near the Altar nor in the Church itself (where Mass takes place).
    it should not be there if there is a reservation chapel. the blessed sacrament is not exposed during Mass, when Christ is present on the altar in the Eucharistic celebration.
And I do not know what else.

I do not want to directly go to the Pastor nor the Bishop because I am not sure what is abuse or not, .
Click to expand...
your first step is the pastor, just ask him Father I am new here and I notice many things I am not familiar with, can you explain the reason for this practice to me? I would not go in with a laundry list, just a couple of the important things, like not kneeling.
 
H_Opey said:
HOLD ON Rand,
Maybe I am misunderstanding what the Offetory is.
This is the part of the mass where we respond “Lord Hear Our Prayer”. This is where the priest makes the prayers known, his own and for those of the people, church, etc. EG today on EWTN the priest had a special intention. These are not layed out in a book. Am I correct?
Click to expand...
this is the prayer of the faithful or intercessions. There are books available with intercessions for each week, or the parish can write their own as long as they follow the general format of prayer for the Church and her leaders, prayers for the world of nations, for our country and its leaders, for our parish, for our community, for the sick, for special needs.–and as long as petitions are not heretical or real personal.

the prayer of the faithful may be led by a deacon or a lay reader
 
So when Offertory is mentioned, it includes the Eucharistic Prayers?
 
You might read the General Instruction on the Roman Missal, which provides fundamental Vatican rules for how the mass is to be performed. You can get it on the internet just by going to google.com and typing in GIRM. Some of the things you mention are abuses (as no kneeling during the eucharistic prayer) but others are not, and I would think it better to know which practices are okay and which not before you talk with anyone.
There are other guidelines for the mass issued by the Pope, but the GIRM could be enough for you to go on.
 
you might also get a missalette or even a good Daily Roman Missal, because they will have the order of the Mass including the name for the parts of the Mass (which seem to be a cause for a bit of confusion here), and the rubrics (directions in red or italics). Unless you know for a fact that practice is in fact an abuse, I would not take any step until you have talked to the priest, in fact, that is always the first thing to do.
 
J1Priest said:
And again, my parish, like most parishes now-a days, have no kneelers nor crucifix, and the shape makes it more like an Auditorium. All this bother me and it makes me want to criticize, so I stay quiet.

Here are some of my concerns, which I do not know if they are abuses.
Can someone tell me with official documents if they are abuses or not, and what can I do in order to stop this?
(also, note that this is a Spanish Mass)
The Reservation Chapel is not even finished and the Monstrance is… not a Monstrance at all…

…]
  • There is no Monstrance near the Altar nor in the Church itself (where Mass takes place).
Click to expand...
It seems to me that your parish does have some problems however from what you say I’m wondering if this is a new church building?

Is it possible that there is no crucifix because it isn’t finished yet? When my parish church was dedicated in 1995 it only had a cross. The crucifix took two or three years for the artist to complete.

Do you really mean a monstrance? Or do you mean the tabernacle?
 
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