Possible to be like Christ?

[littlenothing]

What qualities did Christ have that allowed Him to suffer so much, with absolute full knowledge of our sins and rejection of Him, and yet still love us and be more concerned for us than for Himself?

I know He was humble, charitable, obedient to the Will of the Father and, well, full of all virtue. I just can’t help but think there is some virtue or quality that I am not seeing or understanding, and I would like to know what that might be and is it possible to imitate it?

Anyone?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I love your screen name!

Did you realize that “Christ” was Jesus’s title and not His “last name?”

Christ is the Word through which all was made.

Jesus “the Christ” was the incarnation of Christ in human form.

The Good News is that we can all be in Christ, and Christ in us, and in fact we are that way but Jesus was the only one who knew it by experience, so He was able to untangle the web of the law with its gazillion rules that are, as scripture states, impossible to follow to become righteous.

The next step in logic is to acknowledge that if Christ is in us, and we in Him, we can all become Christs. Shortly before His death, Jesus of Nazareth was nearly stoned for blasphemy for saying He was a “son of God” where “son” means something made in the likeness of God. He quoted scripture that says, “you are all gods,” but of course they didn’t “get it.”

I have so much to say on your topic I’m flustered as to where to start. Please tell me a little more about your own current views on the matter, and it will help me give a better focused response than if I just started shotgunning ideas out there.

The short story is, you have to lose your ego – judgment including self-judgment, mercy, love, etc. – so that the Spirit can have access to your mind to renew it. That’s basically the whole trick Jesus spent His ministry trying to teach, and then on the cross He went and enabled everything. They He gave us a guide to last beyond His physical presence in the form of Jesus of Nazareth. So the reason for studying Jesus in the Bible is to have many seeds planted. The Holy Spirit takes it from there, if you can get your mind and ego out of the way for it to guide. In a larger sense, work of the HS is irresistable, but you won’t notice any changes if you have the wrong attitude – or even beatitude.

As far as specifics that the Church has to offer, one particular form of prayer you might like is Lectio Divina. Lectio takes you through different level of intimacy with the Word to the point of true union with the mystery of Christ. The deepest level is called contemplation. It is silent prayer, where we learn to gently let go of thoughts and let them go by without giving them heed either good, bad, or even interested. Once you get your normal stream of thoughts to quiet down, the Holy Spirit can do things He couldn’t if you were not so disposed to receiving His counsel – which comes in the form of subtle “intents” or “groanings” depending on whose metaphor you wish to use. Ref. 2700-2724

Alan

 

[Heavy_Cross]

Christ is God and human. I believe that he was able to overcome human problems because He was divine. We can all try to be like Him, but we should accept our failures. After all, we are sinners and not divine. Even though we are sinners, God sent Christ to give us mercy and forgiveness. We just have to follow Christ’s teachings as best we can. Remember that his most important teaching was to love one another. That is very difficult in itself.

 

[Kontrak]

Other posters probably have different ideas but here’s a few things that come to mind when I read this.

I believe the answer is Yes in as so much as we are called to be Christ “like”. He is pleased to send the grace to do so. We can ask for Mary’s intercession often. She is pleased to bring us closer to her son. It takes a lot of personal sacrifice. To be like Christ is to do the Father’s will. I think God’s will is different for every individual. We are called to holiness. Ask the Lord to make you as holy as He wills. What does he will for you?

Hmm. Read up on Saints like Saint Francis of Assisi and Padre Pio.

Here are some passages that come to mind about being Christ like.

Matthew 5

43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Jesus Blesses Little Children

  13Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. 14But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15After laying His hands on them, He departed from there.

The Rich Young Man

16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,’d and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’e”

20“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or motherf or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Jesus the Way to the Father

5Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

 

[Dorothy]

Christ is God and human. I believe that he was able to overcome human problems because He was divine. We can all try to be like Him, but we should accept our failures. After all, we are sinners and not divine. Even though we are sinners, God sent Christ to give us mercy and forgiveness. We just have to follow Christ’s teachings as best we can. Remember that his most important teaching was to love one another. That is very difficult in itself.

The most important commandment is to love God first of all:

Mark 20:30,31 …Jesus answered, "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

When we daily make the effort to focus on loving God, it becomes easier to love our neighbor, even the difficult ones.

 

[littlenothing]

I don’t know if this “tell me more” is what you had in mind, Alan, but here goes: Jesus actually felt love for those who spit on Him, reviled Him, ignored Him and crucified Him. He felt it and He showed it. I don’t know how to get to that point. I understand the emptying out of self intellectually, but how do you really do it? I get slighted and hurt by others, and all I feel is maybe mad or whiny or treated unjustly. I know that I need to love them, but how? Am I just loving myself more than them, and if so, how do I get rid of that? How do I go from simply knowing that I must be merciful, loving, bearing wrongs patiently and such to actually doing that?

Lectio Divina is a good idea, but maybe for a person more spiritually advanced than I. I do have a Magnificat that I read (less than daily), and I do pray and read spiritual books almost daily. So why I am still so unlike Jesus?

Oh, a funny thing about my screen name. Nothing was my childhood name for myself. I never told anyone I called myself Nothing. Several years ago, a niece of mine, who was about 5 at the time, started calling herself Nothing. Now we call each other “The Other Nothing”!

 

[littlenothing]

Oh, and thank you all for your responses. I did read each one, and will continue to. I haven’t yet figured out how to post a reply to each post, though. I’m new to this!

 

[Dorothy]

I just want to add that to totally love others may come sometime to us on our spiritual journey.

We can start by saying nothing when someone makes a rude remark to us, and we let it slide. (unless, of course, it is a lie and you are entitled to explain the truth). The rude remark may have “stung” us, but we say a short prayer for the person and let it go. We don’t want to retaliate with a rude remark.

This can happen many times in many situations, and we can only respond in the best way we are capable of with God’s help. As we grow on our prayer journey we can actually feel compassion for a very cross person, and it doesn’t even bother us when they are being negative. We may try changing the subject and say a prayer for the person.

The Lord doesn’t expect us to suddenly have His perfect love working through us. He helps us along the way with our little slips and falls, and we learn through them. Focusing on Him and wanting what is best for the person begins to come into the picture. And, sometimes, it may be necessary to pray for certain people from a distance, as they can be an occasion of being very upset for us.

We just keep on trying to grow spiritually through prayer and sacraments. The Lord honors that. He doesn’t want us to be impatient with ourselves,…just to be able to admit that we can do nothing without Him.

 

[littlenothing]

Dorothy, it’s funny you mentioned the “unless it’s a lie” part. Without getting too specific, one of the people I am having a very hard time loving is someone who lies! So, I have gone back and forth between calling this out and just letting it go because historically it has been pretty fruitless, so I remain frustrated and find it hard to forgive because it never stops.

That’s not all of it, of course. I have always wanted to be able to understand and imitate Jesus’ self-giving-if I can figure it out!

 

[DebChris]

First, we are not God nor does God expect us to be Him.
Phil 2:6 tells us Jesus, “who does he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.” He came in human form to show us how to live, “accepting even death, death on the cross.”
What we can do is accept our own frailty. As Jesus said, “I am the vine. You are the branches. Apart from me, you can do nothing.”
The question becomes, how then can I be a part of Jesus. That answer lies in the power of the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is offered, and given to whomever asks.
Our life in the Spirit is a journey that begins at Baptism when we are “born again.” As an infant grows, so do we. The more we submit our wills to the Will of the Father, the more we are able to detach ourselves from worldly desires. In submitting our wills to the Father, we open ourselves to a greater infilling of the Holy Spirit who empowers us to live the life that God has called us individually to live. Of our own accord we can do nothing, but with God all things are possible.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I don’t know if this “tell me more” is what you had in mind, Alan, but here goes: Jesus actually felt love for those who spit on Him, reviled Him, ignored Him and crucified Him. He felt it and He showed it. I don’t know how to get to that point. I understand the emptying out of self intellectually, but how do you really do it? I get slighted and hurt by others, and all I feel is maybe mad or whiny or treated unjustly. I know that I need to love them, but how? Am I just loving myself more than them, and if so, how do I get rid of that? How do I go from simply knowing that I must be merciful, loving, bearing wrongs patiently and such to actually doing that?

Aha. I suggest you consider the allegorical/metaphorical implications of all this. Look at the physical beating He got as the mental abuse we all get from each other in this flawed society. You can do that right here on CAF; the other posters here can be your guide, your challenge, your enemy, your support, all at once.

Mental abuse is what Jesus was really all about. He kept his mind free of fear and anxiety. Doesn’t mean He had to like it. Remember He asked His Father, PLEASE DON’T MAKE ME DO THIS, but he knew very well He would do it according to the scripture.

If you’ve ever had or known someone with a serious mental illness, they have some of the best insight around as to the destructive nature of others’ words because by our own and others’ words we are both harmed and healed – sometimes a little of each at once, sometimes not.

Lectio Divina is a good idea, but maybe for a person more spiritually advanced than I. I do have a Magnificat that I read (less than daily), and I do pray and read spiritual books almost daily. So why I am still so unlike Jesus?

Lectio is not a required thing, just one of many practices you can use to avail yourself to intimacy with the scripture. It isn’t about being spiritually advanced, though. It sounds like you’re trying to “learn” your way to holiness when in fact it is more “unthinking” that gets your own faulty mind and ego out of the way so the Holy Spirit can come in.

God is a gentleman, and if you’re busy talking or reading or even thinking, you will not be able to even hear Him, much less heed Him.

You say you are different from Jesus, but I don’t see the differences except the particular circumstances you are in with you there and Him where He was.

Seriously ponder Matt 25:45 and you will find the mysteries of the universe all bundled up there. If we take Him at His word, we will all be converted in one spiritual love-fest. Now we may not all recognize it at the same time or see it that way and most go to their graves without full benefit of the Truth.

So when I read your posts, I see words written as Christ incarnated as littlenothing. When I reply to you, I am replying to Christ. If that’s not the case, then Jesus was lying in Matt 25:45.

Oh, a funny thing about my screen name. Nothing was my childhood name for myself. I never told anyone I called myself Nothing. Several years ago, a niece of mine, who was about 5 at the time, started calling herself Nothing. Now we call each other “The Other Nothing”!

Very nice. I was particularly tickled by it because it is in losing our lives that we gain them, so “nothing” is closer to God than “something” because God can’t make something out of something without destroying the something first. That would be our egos. I read no discernable ego problem in your posts. I’m of course an outside observer, but usually I’m pretty sensitive to OTHER people’s ego problems.

Remember Jesus called us His friends, and we are His adopted brethren. We aren’t saved because we are good. We are saved because God is good. He doesn’t love us because we achieve a score on a certain test, but because He IS love.

Alan

Oh, and thank you all for your responses. I did read each one, and will continue to. I haven’t yet figured out how to post a reply to each post, though. I’m new to this!

All you have to do is click the little quote marks to the right of each “quote” button, and when you finally do hit a “quote” button it will quote all those with the selected quote marks first, in the order you clicked them.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Dorothy, it’s funny you mentioned the “unless it’s a lie” part. Without getting too specific, one of the people I am having a very hard time loving is someone who lies! So, I have gone back and forth between calling this out and just letting it go because historically it has been pretty fruitless, so I remain frustrated and find it hard to forgive because it never stops.

That’s not all of it, of course. I have always wanted to be able to understand and imitate Jesus’ self-giving-if I can figure it out!

If it never stops, wash your hands of it. Unforgiveness keeps you from God, even though the other party involved may be a major twit. If you have to deal with this person in the future, just treat them like an unpredictable dog. Don’t hold your fingers out so they may get bit.

As far as self-giving, there are millions of ways to go. I believe you’re on the right path, starting with articulating and confessing your desire for holiness and for Christ-likeness.

Several weeks ago when I was still a bit manic, I went to confession face-to-face and confessed that I desire to be a friend of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ who is in us all. I got absolved, and three Hail Marys as penance, and do you know what? My life changed and it’s been getting better. I’ve even been to confession (of “normal” sins this time) since then, much to my wife’s delight because she believes in frequent confession.

Since I was not completely “driving” myself, I didn’t actually even know what I was going to say in confession; I was just drawn to the confessional for the first time in years. Actually, I was just waiting for my wife to go, and then all of a sudden when everyone else had gone I just got up and went in with no idea what I would say. Later I realized that basically I was confessing to the very denial of Peter, which if I had so confessed in the day would have gotten me killed.

Alan

 

[Dorothy]

Dorothy, it’s funny you mentioned the “unless it’s a lie” part. Without getting too specific, one of the people I am having a very hard time loving is someone who lies! So, I have gone back and forth between calling this out and just letting it go because historically it has been pretty fruitless, so I remain frustrated and find it hard to forgive because it never stops.

That’s not all of it, of course. I have always wanted to be able to understand and imitate Jesus’ self-giving-if I can figure it out!

It is sad to come across a person who lies consistently. I had heard of one person who does that. They may do it for attention or to avoid blame…either one, it is a problem for them and very annoying to others. I would just suttender him/her to the Lord and ask Him to help that person.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Dear Littlenothing, I offer you the following prayer I have adapted from Matt 5:3-12. I find it useful to put my own name (and sometimes others’ names) on the characters in the Bible. That makes me “feel” the stories a little better rather than being sterile and academic and far away…

(My apologies if I used the wrong pronoun gender; if so, please imagine “he” and “his” instead of “she” and “hers.”)

Blessed is littlenothing when her spirits are down, for hers is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed is littlenothing when she mourns, for she will be comforted.
Blessed is littlenothing who is meek, for she will inherit the land.
Blessed is littlenothing who hungers and thirsts for righteousness, for she will be satisfied.
Blessed is littlenothing who is merciful, for she will be shown mercy.
Blessed is littlenothing who is clean of heart, for she will see God.
Blessed is littlenothing when she makes peace, for she will be called a child of God.
Blessed is littlenothing when she is persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for hers is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed is littlenothing when they insult her and persecute her and utter every kind of evil against her because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for her reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before her.

Alan

 

[littlenothing]

I was driving to pick up kids from school a bit before 3 and made a mental note to ask if someone said a prayer for me. On my drive I thought maybe Jesus was telling me it is meekness I am wondering about. Thank you so, so much! And you got the pronoun right-I’m a female littlenothing!

 

[Dorothy]

I was driving to pick up kids from school a bit before 3 and made a mental note to ask if someone said a prayer for me. On my drive I thought maybe Jesus was telling me it is meekness I am wondering about. Thank you so, so much! And you got the pronoun right-I’m a female littlenothing!

But, you are something special in God’s eyes…that is why you are here on this earth.

 

[littlenothing]

You’re up late Dorothy-thank you for taking the time to comment! I’m really glad I posted my question today. I have gotten such great responses.

 

[fhansen]

What qualities did Christ have that allowed Him to suffer so much, with absolute full knowledge of our sins and rejection of Him, and yet still love us and be more concerned for us than for Himself?

I know He was humble, charitable, obedient to the Will of the Father and, well, full of all virtue. I just can’t help but think there is some virtue or quality that I am not seeing or understanding, and I would like to know what that might be and is it possible to imitate it?

Anyone?

The virtues and qualities Jesus spoke of on the Sermon on the Mount-the Beatitudes- tell us much about His own character as well as what He desires of us. We have a hard time doing this-it’s actually impossible to accomplish on our own. Which is why Jesus said, **“Apart from me you can do nothing.” **And scripture similarly informs us elsewhere, "For man nothing is possible, with God all things are possible."

 

[littlenothing]

I don’t know if anyone is going to see this, but I have been thinking about the Beatitudes. I am wondering about the part about blessed are those who are insulted and persecuted, against whom every kind of evil is uttered against them “because of me”. Rejoice and be glad, for their reward will be great in heaven.

Of course many suffer insults and have evil things uttered about them. But because of Jesus, or because of something else?

If people just don’t like me because I am aloof or nerdy or even not very friendly, that is just my fault, right? There is no reward for me there.

On the other hand, if I refuse to prescribe oral contraceptives, people might just become irritated and go to another provider, but I am unaware of being actually persecuted for it.

Maybe Rick Santorum will be getting that great reward in Heaven. Considering his faithfulness and what has been done to his name (which means holy, right?), not to mention the things said about Bella, he is the only one who really comes to mind at the moment who might fit that Beatitude.

I’m not trying to be obtuse; just trying to understand. Sometimes I read the Beatitudes and take courage. Sometimes I read them and think, well, that just doesn’t seem to apply to me. I am simply not that good.

I do know that without God I am nothing but a pit of misery and sin. I also know that with Him I can (potentially) be what He intended.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I don’t know if anyone is going to see this, but I have been thinking about the Beatitudes. I am wondering about the part about blessed are those who are insulted and persecuted, against whom every kind of evil is uttered against them “because of me”. Rejoice and be glad, for their reward will be great in heaven.

Of course many suffer insults and have evil things uttered about them. But because of Jesus, or because of something else?

If people just don’t like me because I am aloof or nerdy or even not very friendly, that is just my fault, right? There is no reward for me there.

On the other hand, if I refuse to prescribe oral contraceptives, people might just become irritated and go to another provider, but I am unaware of being actually persecuted for it.

Maybe Rick Santorum will be getting that great reward in Heaven. Considering his faithfulness and what has been done to his name (which means holy, right?), not to mention the things said about Bella, he is the only one who really comes to mind at the moment who might fit that Beatitude.

I’m not trying to be obtuse; just trying to understand. Sometimes I read the Beatitudes and take courage. Sometimes I read them and think, well, that just doesn’t seem to apply to me. I am simply not that good.

I do know that without God I am nothing but a pit of misery and sin. I also know that with Him I can (potentially) be what He intended.

One way I think I can make sense of it for myself, is to acknowledge that when Jesus said, “because of Me” that He was not talking about himself as Jesus of Nazareth, but as Christ who is all.

If that is the case, then since we are all called to be Christs, as it were, and all share the same spirit, then these persecutions would be against our own spirits as well. So it isn’t anything particularly personal. If you have have the spirit, you will grow fruit of the spirit, and if anyone speaks against those things, or especially takes advantage of you because you have them, then you will be amplified.

I could expand this greatly, but I’ve never actually tried to write about it before so I’ll leave it at this for the moment, see where it goes, and check back later and possibly continue the scenario.

Alan