Possible untapped way to defend the church against the abuse scandals?

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Here’s the thing, though. Even if a person suffered from pedophilia, couldn’t they make a conscious decision to avoid temptation?

I’ve wondered if there are folks out there who are attracted to children, but decide to avoid them and avoid sin and never act on their temptations (in the way that a dating couple may choose not to have sex).

Of course, it would be very hard to gather data on this, because a person with pedophilic tendencies would probably keep their mouth shut about it.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And any sacraments he subsequently gives invalid?

This would be grossly unfair to the thousands of Catholics who relied on this priest to provide them with valid sacraments during his career.

 

[AdamP88]

A man ordained to the priesthood, is an actual priest, regardless of his personal sin, whatever kind of sin that may be. He is ordained to administer the sacraments in the person of Christ. The sacraments are valid, despite the unworthiness of the servant.

Yeah. It’s not like marriage where you both must be free of mortal sin and have the will and capacity to consent.
If the bishop puts his hands on a man with the intention of making him a priest, then he’s a priest. Forever.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Even if a person suffered from pedophilia, couldn’t they make a conscious decision to avoid temptation?

If they have that kind of willpower to avoid all acts associated with pedophiles, the world will never know for sure they’re a pedophile, and they may not even be one since a lot of people have an occasional socially unacceptable impure thought (like sex with a minor, sex with an animal, sex with their parent etc) but never act on it and generally don’t even disclose the socially unacceptable thought to anyone. I doubt that every person who has had such a thought and put it right out of their mind falls into the “pervert” category.

 

[Jim-Eustachius]

I would just like to add that, not all pedophiles are child molesters. If Catholic homosexuals choose the priesthood in order to remain celibate as their vocation, Catholics who are attracted to children may do the same.

Those who turn out to be child molesters potentially joined the priesthood to get close to children of course (they made a whole network so it is obvious), but perhaps others joined to cement their own celibacy but failed (and perhaps some others succeeded).

Like c’mon, even us straight people have enough difficulty avoiding temptation it’s not hard to see that others would have just as much difficulty too. Just a different perspective.

-With the kindest regards, James.

 

[Sprits]

NO. There is absolutely no reason to defend the church. Filth is filth, they need to fix it, and we need to pray for them.

 

[Jim-Eustachius]

I suggest you get a dictionary because according to Oxford a pedophile is a noun simply referring to those with a sexual attraction to children. What word would you use to describe someone with simply attraction instead?

-Kindest regards, James

 

[otjm]

You show a lack of understanding of several issues.

For starters. The great majority of priests who abused were not pedophiles, and I don’t care what news paper, television commentator, or magazine said so. Pedophilia is a sexual attraction and acting out with pre puberty children.

The great majority of sexual activity between priests and children comes either under the heading of hebephilia or under the heading of ephebophilia; the former being attracted to post pubescent children under the age of 15, and the latter to children between 15 and 19.

As to your statement that children figure that out before they are adults, I would challenge that statement.

Further, other than a non-factual opinion that those who have these attractions are entering the priesthpood with the specific intent to be ordained so that they can be around children of that age, that is beneath discussion.

And as the great majority (85% according to the John Jay report) of sexual activity was between homosexual men and teenage boys, if you want to control that issue, then you look to the issue of same sex attraction in candidates for the priesthood; and it needs to be noted that hebephilia and ephebophilia are minor subsets within the homosexual community - that is, the majority of homosexuals do not have those deep seated attractions.

It also should be noted that heterosexual men can have those same attractions - to younger or older teenage girls. Screening for that also needs to be done.

 

[otjm]

Anyone who purports to be reporting the news needs to tell the truth, and telling the truth sometimes means educating oneself as to what is actually occurring. What we have is too many reporters and editorialists who are either lacking in education about that which they report, or lazy, or both. Just because the wrong word is easier to pronounce does not justify its use.

 

[otjm]

I don’t know of any psychiatrist or psychologist who has worked with either those who are sexually attracted to pre pubescent or post pubescent children who would agree with you.

And I have worked with them.

Language has meaning. You are incorrect.

 

[Crocus]

@Jim-Eustachius and @otjm you are right. They (or at least the person in this article) call themselves:

“non-offending” or “anti-contact” pedophile

“The day before a pedophile gives in to his sexual interests in children, he was a pedophile struggling with his sexual interests in children,” Cantor explained, “and that is the day we failed him.”

Social Media Sites Can’t Decide How to Handle ‘Non-Offending’ Pedophiles

Pedophiles have used websites like Twitter to argue they’re not evil, forcing social media platforms to decide how they’re going to treat them.

www.vice.com

I suppose that is a complex topic for another day.

I’m out, and off to pray, for all inwardly suffering people.

 

[Bon_Croix]

HOw many psychologists subscribe to that opinion?

The answer to your title in the OP is that it is a “scandal”.

 

[twf]

Right. And further to this, marriage is contingent upon vows, while any vows or promises made by a candidate for the priesthood are not essential to the sacrament he is receiving.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

otjm:

And as the great majority (85% according to the John Jay report) of sexual activity was between homosexual men and teenage boys

You don’t know that all those men were gay. There are many cases of straight rapists targeting victims of the same sex.

This is true. Some are just generally sexually deviants. Some need power/control. In the past, altar boys were exclusively boys. This would mean that these priests likely had easier access to the boys.

 

[LateCatholic]

Should we be correcting people/the media when they use the term “pedophile priest” and instead make them use a term like “a pedophile who was pretending to be a priest”.

How does this defend the Church from the scandal?
Would a pedophile pretending to be a teacher absolve those responsible?
I don’t get the reasoning.

 

[LateCatholic]

And as the great majority (85% according to the John Jay report) of sexual activity was between homosexual men and teenage boys,

The above statistic is not correct. Regardless, the reasoning disgusts me.

For instance, 17% of the 1000 researched attacks were on females. That’s 170 times a male priest raped or sexual attacked a young girl in Pennsylvania alone. The study indicated that there were three times as many attacks, they just ran out of time and funding to research them. There probably were even more.

That means there were nearly 500 rapes or sexual attacks by male Catholic priests on young girls in Pennsylvania alone during the time indicated. FIVE HUNDRED.
And you want us to think this is a homosexual issue. Please.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

otjm:

And as the great majority (85% according to the John Jay report) of sexual activity was between homosexual men and teenage boys,

The above statistic is not correct. Regardless, the reasoning disgusts me.

For instance, 17% of the 1000 researched attacks were on females. That’s 170 times a male priest raped or sexual attacked a young girl in Pennsylvania alone. The study indicated that there were three times as many attacks, they just ran out of time and funding to research them. There probably were even more.

That means there were nearly 500 rapes or sexual attacks by male Catholic priests on young girls in Pennsylvania alone during the time indicated. FIVE HUNDRED.
And you want us to think this is a homosexual issue. Please.

Well, let’s see – you said 85% is not correct, but then you said 17%were against females. So that means 83% were against males, right? Not too far off from 85%. Obviously, the 17% is dwarfed proportionally by the 83%.

 

[Brendan_64]

lying on their ordination day when they are made a priest, then is the person really a priest at all? And any sacraments he subsequently gives invalid?

If a priest like this wasn’t actually a priest and the sacraments he administers are invalid, then what happens to all the Catholics he has married, given the Eucharist to, heard Confessions, possibly confirmed and administered the Sacrament of the sick to? And all because their priest was deceitful?

 

[Brendan_64]

Yeah. It’s not like marriage where you both must be free of mortal sin and have the will and capacity to consent

I don’t think being in a state of mortal sin when married necessarily makes a marriage invalid.

 

[FiveLinden]

For starters. The great majority of priests who abused were not pedophiles, and I don’t care what news paper, television commentator, or magazine said so. Pedophilia is a sexual attraction and acting out with pre puberty children.

The great majority of sexual activity between priests and children comes either under the heading of hebephilia or under the heading of ephebophilia; the former being attracted to post pubescent children under the age of 15, and the latter to children between 15 and 19.

Please see my earlier post giving the details of what was found in Australia. This is not a media report but cold, hard analysis. Average age of victims in Catholic institutions 10-11.